Anyone see GMTV feature on measles, telling everyone to get the MMR? It's put me in a dither again....

[bohemianbint]

We decided a while back that we are only going to give DS the single measles jab, as I'm not so concerned about mumps and rubella for him and I still have reservations re the MMR.

We haven't yet got round to sorting it out though and getting the money together. And apparently now there's cases of measles confirmed in Manchester where we live and there are rumblings about an "epidemic". Having not got around to immunising DS yet I'm getting the fear, and wondering again whether we wouldn't be better just doing the MMR.

Don't want it it be a financial decision, don't want him to get measles, don't want to make the wrong decision and damage him.

Not even sure what my reasons are for being wary of the MMR (apart from not being convinced he needs immunising about mumps and rubella.) Have no idea what to do.

Just thinking aloud really, I've found it virtually impossible to make a decision about this and I'm not comfortable with not being able to define my reasons for not wanting the MMR.

Sorry if i'm asking a stupid question but what things qualify as possible trigger factors when considering the mmr? is it things like lowered immune system in the child? only asking as my dd is 17 months and am being hassled by the docs to give her her mmr but really want to hold off as long as poss (my ds was 2). it is all so stressful.

Jimjam hello are you yurt, yurt1 or are you all the same
love the jimjams btw

Very briefly, luckywinner (please correct me jimjams or anyone if I am wrong) the main potential triggers would be history of auto-immune conditions and/or gut problems in the family, lots of antibiotic use, history of ASD in the family. I was concerned about MMR for ds1 because I tend very occasionally to have minor auto-immune-type things going on.

It was all sorts of triggers being discussed. Certainly no emphasis at all on vaccinations - and it would be a misrepresentation to suggest it, but they are at least being looked at now that there is more private funding available. And there was also recognition that they need to be studied as parents want that. And it was talked about openly. A lot of specialists in other fields are being encouraged to move into autism research so it's an exciting time.

Talk of prentatal infections setting up a situation where a later environmental trigger + genetic susceptibility could trigger the condition as well.

There was lots I wanted to see so I didn't really focus on the gene/environment stuff but the talks/posters I saw were wide ranging and interesting and discussion about vaccinations was certainly not taboo.

thanks berolina, thats v helpful. i am v bad asthmatic although has been much better recently but don't think that counts. and i am guessing the lots of antibiotic use is for the child? only because i have been on loads and loads!

yes, the child. I have asthma too but I don't think it is classified as auto-immune. My 'things' are stuff like psoriasis and IBS - so not the serious stuff, but technically auto-immune responses.

(disclaimer. Not saying that psoriasis/IBS are not 'serious' - just mine aren't)

The risk factors aren't really known for MMR - perhaps family history of gut disease.

The risk factors for autism are as stated by berolina.

for the issues around antibiotic use watch Derrick MacFabe's talk I linked to earlier.

I'm yurt1 stuffit, although many years ago I was jimjams.

There was quite a bit on immunity and autism at the conference as well

It all sounds most encouraging.

confusion sorted yurt

it really does sound encouraging, and there were noises from someone at the CDC I think this week about the role of vaccinations not being dismissed

night time memory -- was it the CDC? but it was linked from the jabs website I think

Is there no one else whose child reacted badly to the single measles jab? DD2 has SN anyway which had already become apparent by 18 months when she had the jab (severe learning disability of unknown cause) but following the single measles developed absence seizures that very evening for the first time. These continued for about 6 months, but did wear off. I'm not convinced it contributed overall to her disability, but no vaccine is without risk imo. People tend to portray the single vaccines as a safe option... but really only a slightly less risky one.

Also, my Mum is convinced I reacted badly to the whooping cough vaccine as a baby. For this reason, my poor brother suffered a bad case of whooping cough, also mumps and German measles as my Mum then refused any vaccines for him. He's had a bad chest all his life... There's no easy answer.

I gave both DDs the MMR. I read the Wakefield paper first, though. Found it made me happier to give them the MMR than before I had read it. HTH

I have a stepbrother in his early 30s who was perfectly normal until his single measles jag (all singles back then).

He is autistic and cannot live alone - he is in residential care several hours from my parents to get the best care possible. He also has a variety of gut problems.

dsm is sure it stemmed from the measles jag, as he reacted badly after it and had convulsions.

There are known cases after the measles jab. My aunt carers for an adult now who was single measles damaged (I'm not sure whether there was a payout as they're so hard to get, but certainly it's accepted by everyone who cares for her).

DS1 actually completely lost his speech about a month after the single measles jab- I'm not convinced it was related at all as his regression started right after his illness - but whether it provided an extra dose of something and finished him off completely who knows?

There was quite a bit of talk at the conference about multiple environmental hits as well. I wish I'd gone to more of the immunity and genetics talks now but there was so much on

Stuffitllama are you thinking of Dr. Bernadine Healy on CBS news? She is the former head of the National Institutes of Health and a member of the Institute of Medicine. In other words she is as mainstream as you get, so it is huge that she has spoken about this issue in such a way on national television.

Here's a link to it for anyone interested.

Colander can I ask what you mean when you say that after reading Wakefield et al's paper it made you happier about giving MMR. Which aspect of the paper or particular finding made you feel this way?

Sorry about your brother Weegiemum. It does seem that there is a problem with singles too. I don't know if there is a reliable big study that compares single versus combined for adverse events. Shameful but unsurprising if there isn't.

Thanks Beachcomber, I was thinking last night I must track it down and link it. It was a vague glimmer despite only being a couple of days ago! I'm getting the feeling that people in the know, know, but apart from the odd one are still too afraid to frighten the horses.

oldcrock, of course you are right that no vaccine is without risk. (There is of course risk too in catching wild measles). I've found the whole vaccination thing one of the hardest bits of parenting decision-making so far - and we are lucky in that we don't have huge risk factors. I do feel on balance that certainly for ds2 (who had 3 days of IV ABs at 3 weeks - ds1 has never had ABs) I would prefer singles to MMR, as MMR does seem to carry that extra risk due to the combination of potential triggers introduced at once. I am also not entirely convinced that vaccinating against mumps and rubella in early childhood is the best way to go about things. I would, I think, be for vaccinating against rubella and mumps at age 10ish.

It's really a case of weighing up each individual vaccine in the situation. I was at the doc's like a shot with ds1 when the pneumococcal vaccine came out, but hsve been dithering hopelessly for months about the chickenpox. I wish there could be a move away from the one-size-fits-all approach to vaccination and more research, resources and support into/for individual sets of circumstances.

You're welcome. I have the same feeling.

I wonder if the change of US president will allow for some change in official line over there. In the light of the Autism Omnibus, Hannah Poling, the recent monkey study, etc something has to happen.

No doubt it will be interesting if depressing to see the spin that is going to be used.

I have a friend who works in a care home for young adults with severe brain damage. Two of them were infected with rubella while in their mothers' wombs. Their care costs are met by the state (and quite right too) but there is no compensation available for them. Also both of my sons, autistic and non autistic, have made great progress with their speech since getting the MMR booster and the MMR - but it could just be a co incidence.

If your child dies from a vaccination aged under 2 you don't get any compensation.

The UK compensation system for vaccine damage is dreadfully inadequate - to the point where it may as well not exist really.

It's appalling -- that means the possibility of being damaged by vaccination as a baby is not officially accepted. Despite what it says on the manufacturers' package sheets. It's just .