Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

General health

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

I want to warn people about ME/Chronic Fatigue

116 replies

OldAndNotWise · 02/02/2024 10:49

I'm a regular poster but I've namechanged for this. I've recently been diagnosed with ME and I'm absolutely devastated but in a sense, it's a relief as it explains what's been happening to me over the last few years.

I can't turn back the clock but I want to warn others about this horrible disease that disproportionately impacts women.

I started feeling tired and under the weather and had numerous illnesses. I never seemed to be entirely well and never felt that I fully recovered. The doctor ran loads of blood tests. At first i was mildly anaemic, had low vitD, slightly low B vitamins and had slightly elevated CRP but this was put down to the fact that I had a viral infection at the time. I fixed all the vitamins but still felt exhausted.

Rather than resting more, I thought I must need to get fitter so tried to fit in a few more sessions at the gym or a few more runs on the days I felt well. I ate better, I lost weight, I was probably, physically, in the best health I had ever been but at the same time I was completely exhausted. This went on for about a year and I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I paid for a very expensive health check that checked everything and nothing came out of it. The doctor who ran the health check asked me if I was 'stressed' because stress can cause multiple viral infections and that run down feeling.

6 months later, I picked up another virus (or so I thought) and couldn't get out of bed. I managed to drag myself to a doctor who said it wasn't bacterial but 2 weeks later I wasn't better and when I went back again, he said 'if you've been like this for so long and you're getting worse, then this is likely to not be what you think'. I asked if he knew someone I could be referred to and I went to see a Long Covid specialist who confirmed that the multiple viral infections were probably not viral infections but signs I was pushing myself too much and this was likely to be ME.

I was bedridden for weeks. And then I started treating it like it was ME. So I had to learn how much energy I had and learn how much I could use each day. I was terrified of losing my job so I didn't tell work but could only manage one day in the office. Luckily no one complained.

It has taken me months to get to a place where I can manage a full day without needing to lie down. There is no cure. There is nothing that can be taken that can treat it that is guaranteed to work. There is barely any research going into the disease. Last week, a young lady killed herself rather than suffer with it (I won't link but if you look, it's on twitter). She isn't the first. This disproportionately impacts women.

What I want to say to you all - if you are tired and there appears to be no reason for it (not your thyroid, not severe vitamin deficiencies, isn't severe anaemia), do not push yourself. Rest, rest and rest some more. It seems totally counterintuitive that you wouldn't try and get fitter and try and get stronger but sometimes you have to stop and stop for some time. You do not want this. I can't walk to the shops, I can't go for a walk. I can't exercise, I can't enjoy anything because I'm exhausted all day, every single day. There is no cure. If I could turn back the clock a few years, I'd tell myself to take a break because maybe I wouldn't have pushed myself over the edge. Who knows. But please be careful!

OP posts:
pickledandpuzzled · 02/02/2024 20:54

I feel lucky that I was able to slow down and stop when I did. It’s only my gut instinct, but I think if I’d kept on pushing longer I’d not have recovered to the extent I have (which is still pretty disabling, but not as bad as some).

I worry when I see people who aren’t able to completely stop and see some improvement thereby before trying to rebuild. I had time out of work, then Covid happened, and that really focused my mind on self care.

BlueSkyBlueLife · 02/02/2024 20:54

Btw I dint put all the vagus nerve stimulation, mediation etc… as psychological tools.
I think the vagus nerve has a big part to play (see also dysautonomia). Meditation is great to help deal with the situation as well as get calmer (aka mainly avoiding getting worse)
TaiChi is a different ball game. It’s about energy and rebalancing the body. Same than acupuncture.

JungsWordTest · 02/02/2024 21:26

I wouldn't be surprised if medicine finds the EBV behind this. Currently, our tests are not sensitive enough to pick EBV up reliably. It is now known that it is responsible for several disorders, including some cancers, multiple sclerosis, and perhaps long Covid.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 02/02/2024 22:05

This is such a helpful thread, thank you. I have been signed off work for the last 3 months after a string of illnesses - something that seemed like covid but wasnt, then got covid, then chest infections, then flu. I just could not get out from under it. I went back to the doctor in desperation and he took one look at me and my notes and said he was signing me off. Since then I am so tired. My energy level is nowhere near what it should be and I have found myself going straight into self blame, I am too fat, too unfit, should do this and that etc etc. I am trying to be more kind, eat, sleep and rest better, but it is really difficult. Lots of good tips here, thank you all who have posted about resources.

Globules · 02/02/2024 22:18

My best friend was diagnosed with ME about 20 years ago.

It affects everything.

She's mid 40s. She can't stand in the shower for more than 5 minutes and needs a 2 hour rest to get over the exertion. She's an English lit graduate who can no longer focus enough to read a paragraph. Her brain fog is awful. I've filled in paperwork for her and have all her passwords. It affects her heart, gut and her lungs, as they're slowing down. She chunks her week up and allocates 3 x 2hr slots to socialising. She struggles going to mutual friends houses and sitting on their sofas, as they aren't high backed. I bought a sofa with her in mind...she can rest her head against it... It's too much energy to hold it up constantly. She wears Loops in noisy places to make sure her head isn't needing to process too much sound.

I hate seeing her like this. Hate it. GP can't really do anything, as there's nothing to do.

Our dark humour often jokes that there will never be a cure for ME as the sufferers don't have the energy to campaign for research to be done into the disease.

If the brain fog hasn't yet set it @OldAndNotWise read up as you can about it. My friend has an insta account with 1000s of followers talking about her life. There's a big online community for you to hunt down out there, which I've heard are great at supporting each other.

All the best

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 02/02/2024 22:42

It’s about energy and rebalancing the body. Same than acupuncture

I tried acupuncture for my sever cfs. It’s made it much much worse. Bedridden at the moment.

Slumberlands · 02/02/2024 22:48

foggyoutside · 02/02/2024 20:06

Pasting what I wrote on the other thread re recovery in case helpful for anyone (I am now back at work but on a long phased return):

I have CFS (diagnosed after cancer treatment but I think it started before that when I had hyperemesis). I consider myself nearly fully recovered now and feel I've tried EVERYTHING. Hoping I can return to work in a few months 🤞

The main thing for me was accepting that CFS is a physical disease but is caused by nervous system dysfunction and also accepting that recovery is possible. Then things that helped were brain training (repeatedly visualising being well essentially - can send links to free videos if helpful to anyone, I didn't pay to do DNRS or Gupta or anything just read about the concepts), vagus nerve stimulation via TENS machine, the Arc4Health machine, therapy (specifically Internal Family Systems therapy - I resisted this hard because was convinced therapy could not help a physical problem), and removing myself from many CFS social media groups.

Things that really didn't help were supplements (spent a small fortune) or diet.

In case it's useful for others I found these resources so helpful:
The Brain's Way of Healing book by Norman Doidge (blew my mind)
Raelan Agle's youtube channel - recovery stories
CFSRecovery youtube channel
CFSHealth youtube channel
Primal Trust instagram account

So I alternated between these two each night before I went to sleep:

this one is a sort of mix of DNRS and Joe Dispenza. The bit about the healing centres is out there but if you suspend cynicism and go with it I think it's a great one

https://www.danielvanloosbroek.com/meditations/ the future self meditation on this page. This guy's website is amazing it's basically a free recovery course [not sure it is free anymore!]

Also at the beginning I just tried to do joyful things. Listening to music I love. Visualising past holidays. Watching beaches on youtube. I know some people are too severe for even that kind of stimulation though.

Re vagus nerve stuff, if you're on facebook the group A Vagus Adventure by Dawn Wiley has all the info you need on Tens machines and vagus nerve stimulation. I found her by chance but she was also recommended to me by my CFS consultant Dr Weir (she is his patient I think and has had amazing success in healing).

I am am interested to hear more about your experiences of IFS. I am considering doing this , not for CFS but generally .

OldAndNotWise · 03/02/2024 04:13

I'm a single parent so my focus has been on keeping work at the exclusion of everything else. I no longer socialise. I work and go to bed. I spend most of my weekend resting so I can work. I have much less disposable income because I employ a cleaner now and a dog walker but I'm saving as I don't go on holidays.

My life is v small and there's nothing I can do. I don't think I will recover in my lifetime.

I spent all my life working to have a nice retirement with my dog and doing long walks and that's not going to happen. Even if I have to give up work, my critical illness insurance won't pay out for this so I would have to sell the house and go onto benefits if I could even get them and a lot of ME sufferers have to fight for them.

It is not a great future.

OP posts:
Einszwei · 03/02/2024 04:40

I was diagnosed with ME as a teenager 15 years ago. In my opinion it was triggered by a virus from which I just struggled to recover from.

Whilst I feel awful for those with long covid, it has really shone a light on post viral illnesses with much more funded research. Currently there is a very large study decode ME.

In terms of my illness it has been up and down. At its worst I was sleeping for 22 hours a day. At its best I was a semi-functioning human again with a job and the ability to travel.

What's helped me the most is understanding my limits and need for rest. I never push myself too much. Also the mental aspect. For a while I was so angry that I had lost so much of my life to ME, whereas now I just take each good hour/day as it comes.

Copperoliverbear · 03/02/2024 04:56

I suffer with this, this is why I am awake at this ungodly hour, find it hard to sleep sometimes even though exhausted, keep going from hot to cold, you can have other things which are also linked to this like restless legs, which I also have.
Look up fybromyalgia on the internet and it will give you a whole list of symptoms you may have been experiencing and then it all fits together like a puzzle. X

Copperoliverbear · 03/02/2024 04:58

Also I do find dairy intensives my pain.
Fybromyalgia is also linked to intolerances

Copperoliverbear · 03/02/2024 05:09

@Costacoffeeplease glandular fever is what started mine off x

Atacamadesert · 03/02/2024 06:57

My partner was housebound with ME for over 10 years. I thought that was it for good. Spent the days in bed or sitting in a chair and tried all kinds of ‘treatment’. A course of Lightening therapy changed everything. I went with him to the course. We were both sceptical but after that he made his way back to full time employment very slowly over a period of about 6 years. I can’t explain it other than that I think physical and mental play in to each other after so many years being ill and disbelieved. So what starts as physical gets compounded by mental as the worry of being ill takes over and the nervous system gets jammed in high alert. The lightning therapy is def aimed at calming the nervous system. It doesn’t work for everyone but it saved our lives and it’s a fairly no regret option compared to some of the stuff we tried. Brazilian cats claw Juice anyone? I just wanted to share my experience in case it helps anyone. It’s also incredibly hard on partners.

GingerSquid · 03/02/2024 07:40

BlueSkyBlueLife · 02/02/2024 20:37

@GingerSquid the Lightening Process is not just ‘not recommended’ by the NICE guidelines but that they actually recommend NOT to use it.

I am happy that you did find it helpful. But it look like it’s a ‘therapy’ to recommend.

The Lightening Process honestly gave me a huge portion of my life back after losing my early twenties to ME after being left with it after continuous bouts of viral gastrointestinal problems and losing a stone in weight (was already pretty thin). I had also had a traumatic and gruelling process training as a dancer from 16-19 … as someone mentioned upthread ME is very common in former athletes. I’m incredibly open to all healing and don’t follow any guidelines except my own intuition. There is nothing to lose from running alternative methods alongside traditional ones; you never know what will work for you, we are all so individual, and the mind boy connection is huge.

Lindos1 · 03/02/2024 08:23

My daughter did the Lightning Process & got her from bed bound, barely able to speak & screaming with pain, to 60/70% recovered. We have spent a fortune on getting help, saw many drs etc, & this has been the ONLY thing to have an impact.
Dr Phil Parker is very clear that ME/CFS starts with a physical illness, then the body gets 'stuck'. This is obvs a v simple explanation.
There are many mind/body connection courses with different slants.
Please don't discount brain re-traing/ mind body connection/ poly vagal theory/ nervous system work. It's vital to keep an open mind. Many people have recovered (using different practises as we're all different) & recovered, so why not you?
When she first got sick I joined lots of FB groups, but eventually ended up leaving as it was so upsetting & people (understandably) just talking about their symptoms all the time. It became v negative & draining. I used the time instead to listen to recovery stories on Raelan's channel.
I won't give up until my daughter is fully recovered. If anyone else has recommendations for things that helped them, please let us know.
I truly appreciate how hard this must be to have this as an adult & have to research & navigate your own way out of it. It truly is a terrible illness & you have my every sympathy.

Myridiculousstomach · 03/02/2024 08:26

I’ve been deep in this for 4 years now and feel absolute despair. I’d always suffered since having glandular fever at 18 and never got properly better, but it waxed and waned. I dealt with the bad months/years by pacing myself and making sure I rested a lot, and I actually experienced a couple of years of almost complete remission before I got pneumonia and it kicked off again.

However, I caught what I think was covid at the start of the pandemic and although it was very mild I suffered endless health problems afterwards. Lockdown was brilliant for me as I was furloughed from my part time job and only had to do my self employed job which I managed well with lots of rest. I tried the keto diet as it was recommended to me for long covid and ME and it eased my symptoms enough for me to exercise. Like the OP, I then experienced the weirdness that was becoming fitter than I ever had been in my life yet still so so physically unwell. Then I had to go back to work and it’s been a steady decline ever since. I can’t exercise at all now and spend my life either going to work (just 20 hours per week) or lying down. I don’t socialise, drink alcohol, struggle to do any freelance work at all, can’t go on holiday, can’t do anything that makes a life and life rather than an existence.

Keto helps but I can’t eat like that constantly as it’s miserable and hard to stick to so I do it for a few months at a time - it does make a noticable difference to my quality of life when I can manage it. I’m sure others will have had the opposite experience with it though as nothing works for everyone - before keto I tried a vegan diet and felt worse than ever. I also recommended d-ribose to someone else on here the other day and I have found that helps (a little bit) too but I can’t take it all the time as it upsets my tummy. One of the worst symptoms for me is an awful fuzzy feeling chest pain that comes on as soon as I’ve done too much (which can be barely anything) and can stay for weeks. I find that a dose of d-ribose for a few days gets rid of it quickly. Lots find it helps with their fatigue but it only helps mine slightly as I can’t take enough of it for the full effect.

ComeWithME · 03/02/2024 12:48

It was a matter of time before the Lightning Process was mentioned on this thread. I’d love to know if someone would mention this thought process to someone with cancer?

It has been debunked.

ME is NOT a case of you being mentally stuck in a mindset. Lots of ME patients may have DEPRESSION alongside ME; it is well known that ME causes depression due to the reduction in autonomy and function.

I have ME. I do not have depression. I crack on with life. I look forward to things and I pace myself to allow me to do fun things with my DC. I’m a very positive person.

However, this does not change the fact that if I overspend my energy for a day, that I’ll be at least housebound for a day or two after . I factor this in to my plans , such is the nature of ME.

My mind is not stuck in a negative cycle perpetuating the illness. It is a neurological condition. The ignorance just feeds the stigma.

InMySpareTime · 03/02/2024 13:29

@ComeWithME same here, when I did CBT (as that's all the NHS offered at that point) I got a depression score of 4 and an anxiety score of zero. It's my body that's the problem not my mind.
The Lightening process might work for some people, as ME undoubtedly covers a number of conditions, but rest and pacing works for everyone and nobody is making money from it.

PictureFrameWindow · 03/02/2024 13:39

Don't forgot the excellent Health Riding site where a CFS sufferer collates all the new research on ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia:

www.healthrising.org/

BlueSkyBlueLife · 03/02/2024 14:18

I’d really recommend Visible Health if you are looking at pacing.
Its being developed by researchers on ME and LC and is seriously one of the best tools I’ve found to actually see the impact of each activity on my days.
- Visible [[https://www.makevisible.com/ www.makevisible.com/

There is a free version and paid version.
If you can i recommend the paid version as there is so much I formation you get from it, including whether some supplements/therapy etc… are actually working or making you worse.

Visible - Activity tracking for Long Covid and ME/CFS

Visible provides the tools you need to understand your energy-limiting condition. Use data to pace your activity, manage your symptoms, and help move science forward.

https://www.makevisible.com/

BlueSkyBlueLife · 03/02/2024 14:21

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 02/02/2024 22:42

It’s about energy and rebalancing the body. Same than acupuncture

I tried acupuncture for my sever cfs. It’s made it much much worse. Bedridden at the moment.

I’ve had acupuncture and TCM herbs (well still do)
You need to find the right practitioner and they are not all created equal.

One if them kept me afloat for years. When he moved away (to New Zealand), it took me years to find someone to replace him.
Otherwise, yes there is a risk of making someone worse.

Im really sorry this was your experience

OldAndNotWise · 03/02/2024 14:57

PictureFrameWindow · 03/02/2024 13:39

Don't forgot the excellent Health Riding site where a CFS sufferer collates all the new research on ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia:

www.healthrising.org/

This is great thanks

OP posts:
RubyTrees · 03/02/2024 17:34

BlueSkyBlueLife · 03/02/2024 14:18

I’d really recommend Visible Health if you are looking at pacing.
Its being developed by researchers on ME and LC and is seriously one of the best tools I’ve found to actually see the impact of each activity on my days.
- Visible [[https://www.makevisible.com/ www.makevisible.com/

There is a free version and paid version.
If you can i recommend the paid version as there is so much I formation you get from it, including whether some supplements/therapy etc… are actually working or making you worse.

Thanks for the link.

I started going through it and came across this:
“Gender can significantly impact your experience of illness. Some people don’t identify with the sex they were assigned at birth, so we ask for your gender so that we can address you correctly.”

The DecodeME study has shown that females suffer more with ME than males - so why is gender identity relevant to a medical condition which affects the 2 sexes?
https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/mecfs-affects-women-more-severely-than-men/34277

A person is addressed by their name not by their gender so the text in bold above is nonsensical.

This isn’t a trans-bashing comment - I just feel a health app should use clear language that is commonly understood.

I want to warn people about ME/Chronic Fatigue
pickledandpuzzled · 03/02/2024 18:17

RubyTrees · 03/02/2024 17:34

Thanks for the link.

I started going through it and came across this:
“Gender can significantly impact your experience of illness. Some people don’t identify with the sex they were assigned at birth, so we ask for your gender so that we can address you correctly.”

The DecodeME study has shown that females suffer more with ME than males - so why is gender identity relevant to a medical condition which affects the 2 sexes?
https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/mecfs-affects-women-more-severely-than-men/34277

A person is addressed by their name not by their gender so the text in bold above is nonsensical.

This isn’t a trans-bashing comment - I just feel a health app should use clear language that is commonly understood.

Presumably they also ask for sex? So gender is so they can address you correctly, and sex is for accurate advice.

pickledandpuzzled · 03/02/2024 18:22

Do you not accept your autonomic nervous system is implicated? It’s all working at a level beyond our conscious control yet responding to our environment. It makes sense to me that my subconscious is still battling a situation that I am no longer in.
Years of toxic stress have caused my system to malfunction.
Some elements of that can be repaired and perhaps some can’t- the malfunctioning mitochondria for example. I don’t know what regulates mitochondrial function.

Do you think PTSD or CPTSD, or attachment disorder are somehow not real?