Are physician associates safe to see instead of GP?

[ourchildrenareourfuture]

The news articles are really scary seeing people getting misdiagnosed or being given prescriptions they shouldn't have been prescribed, and being made to think they're seeing a doctor when they're not.

Has anyone else had any issues with physician associates, or PAs, when they've wanted to see a doctor? Have you had a delay in getting a diagnosis for something, or misdiagnosed?

It took 11 weeks to diagnose DH with a PE a week following an invasive procedure, after we went to OOH. We have no idea whether the person we saw was a GP or PA. DH kept prodding the GP for results and they kept on with the original diagnosis, redoing the same tests until something else showed up and eventually he got a scan on the right bit.

@Melroses that sounds familiar! Mine was diagnosed suspected PE at the walk-in within 3hrs by a doctor who sent me to A&E. I then saw another doctor and a specialist who agreed it was a clot on the lung throughout the night, yet somehow a TG Doc was able to send me home with no mention of it on the records. There is no joined-up thinking.

Just to clarify, Staff grade and Trust grade doctors are not the same thing. (DOI/COI: staff grade/specialty doctor).

There's still quite a bit of confusion on this thread about roles and titles!

Just Google PA in UK and you'll see really worrying interviews with people promoting PAs ,some suggesting PA can do what a doctor can do.
Training thousands of PA ,offering them big salaries , white coats and stethoscopes is suspicious , But they are needed to staff the private equity funded communty based heath hubs planned around the Country . More back door privatisation, eroding NHS.

I'd rather see my GP practice nurse any day .

As a health care professional in primary care in London beg you not to see a physician associate in the GP practice.
They have 2 yrs post grad training and that first degree can be in anything.
It is demonstrably unsafe for PAs to be seeing pts when there are other better qualified health care professionals.

Add to that they're not regulated ie not on any professional register. No code of practice. And if you want to see the level professionalism tictoc will show you the videos put up with content so inappropriate any other professional would be struck off for.

They can't prescribe, order bloods, order scans or make the significant referrals.
But very very importantly they are being used to replace GPs. Actual GP training places were slashed so PAs could be used instead with very many coming from private companies at locum rates. There's a massive shortage of GPs because the govt slashed how many GP positions there could be.
It's horrendous and pts have died - preventable deaths.
The idea of a PA ever seeing a pregnant woman or a child is terrifying.

Be wise.
Check you're actually speaking with a GP or nurse or paramedic.

Lots of GPs think that the way PAs are used in primary care is dangerous, I wouldn't see one.

They are supposed to be supervised but no one knows who by!!

There's a massive shortage of GPs because the govt slashed how many GP positions there could be.
Actually there isn'ta shortage. There are GPs who can't get jobs because surgeries are employing PAs instead with money the government has given them that cannot be used to pay doctors.

I'm not happy about them and would not see one, unless for an in complicated issue.

It stands to reason that if a med degree takes 5 years, 2 isn't enough.

I would say yes.

I saw a very kind just a paramedic in an an and e in March who sat with me for 45 minutes late at night for a gynaecologist infected problem. Got me on path for help I remain indebted for their kindness. Why wouldn’t I fill in a thanks card for that.

Today, despite being seen by the ‘right’ powered professionals and everything saying they talk you through it during procedure (ha, do they hell to high for that) I left that unit unknown I’d had 6 biopsies - Dad who has had bowel cancer spoke sense into me. He shouldn’t have to. The hospital just proudly followed their unlearnt failings under the CQC and it’s ok.

Should not be this way. LM

PAs can’t prescribe. All their suggested prescriptions need to be signed by a supervising qualified doctor. Your mother doesn’t have to see a PA - she can refuse and if you don’t think there is due diligence around supervision of her practice, you should complain. Just to stress that PAs are not qualified and must not prescribe - it is illegal

I wouldn’t see one.My GP practice doesn’t employ any, thank goodness, but I’d be worried if I had to see one in a hospital setting.

I have a friend who did a one year nursing course because she had a degree in an unrelated subject. I was fairly horrified by this but I’m wondering what sort of nurse she is after reading some of these posts.

Don’t forget that a newly qualified GP has trained for minimum 10 years
5 years medical school
2 years foundation programme through many branches of medicine
3 years GP training scheme including paeds, obs, psych, a &e, etc
includes lots of OOH work

it’s in no way comparable to PA course which is 2 years, some have can have as little as 8 weeks a year clinical placement eg Plymouth

Refuse to see one if you value you and your loved one’s health.

thank your tory government for leaving lots of unemployed doctors in favour for funding these charlatans.

My surgery don't have any
GPs, practice nurse; advanced nurse practitioner (who is lovely and very good) and a clinical pharmacist
I changed to this surgery recently and it's night and day from my old one

My dentist sees me but the dental therapist does my fillings and she's brilliant even when I'm a nervous wreck

I’d happily see literally anyone else at the GP practice in accordance with my needs. But a PA brings nothing to the table and are woefully undertrained for what your government pay them to do. The government doesn’t mind the entirely avoidable deaths and us happy to play with your life.

@Searchingforthelight They are not my Tory government! In 40 years I’ve never voted for them. And I totally endorse what you are saying.

Hopefully we won’t be stuck with them for much longer- the tories and the PAs!
If any individuals want to practice medicine, graduate entry medical school is the route. Not the Wild West which is what this government is promoting.
i advise that you make sure your surgeon is really a surgeon, that your anaesthetist is actually an anaesthetist, that someone in scrubs and a stethescope who says ‘I’m one of the medics’ is actually a doctor.
because these days, thanks to the government and the wrong people in key positions, they may not be.

Mine told me to stay on a high dose of thyroid medication as my TSH was low (0.01). That was completely wrong - the lower the number the HIGHER it is, and I was left on a super high dose for ages until the doctors were like why are you still taking 150, and had to lower me down to 100, until it was super low and my hair started falling out, now back on 125 as I was pre pregnancy. 😩

I think it depends on on the issue.

I had a consult with one who was a paramedic. I'd had an infection (thought it viral) for 3 weeks which started in sinuses and travelled to chest.

They prescribed antibiotics - prescription checked by GP - cleared it up.

My question is when a GP checks everything how much time is saved and cost resource.

OMFG

these people are miles off the scope of practice recommended by the BMA ( no other medical body has come up with a scope of practice and BMA represents more doctors than any other organisation)

Of course they shouldn’t be looking at your medication and treating your hypothyroidism. That’s a doctor’s job.

I hope you complained, that’s really terrible

Oh I will be!!

That should be reported to your local Integrated Care Board ( ICB) and Care Quality Commission.
I wonder about the people applying to be PAs . What kind of people pretend to be doctors . A nurse or other recognised para medic is proud of their qualification and the public trust them

Absolutely. We have nurse practitioners and advanced care practitioners in our department. They did years of extra training, and then more years of being closely supervised and monitored, before working more independently. They are proud to introduce themselves as what they are, because they are rightly proud of what they have achieved. They would never introduce themselves as "one of the medics". Once, many years ago, I worked somewhere with advanced neonatal nurse practitioners. Their training was rather less than a doctor, but a hell of a lot more than a PA. One of them introduced herself to a parent as "one of the paediatricians", and all hell broke loose because this was completely unprofessional, and a major probity issue.