NHS is finished

[Tulipsroses]

My experience with NHS is patchy. The maternity hospitals were good but some diagnostics I had to do were a nightmare. At one point I found it easier to fly abroad to do a biopsy because NHS would not do it and private clinic would charge a fortune.

I read about NHS horror stories and I can't stop thinking why on earth it's not abolished by now. It is clearly not sustainable. It's a black hole where you damp more money every year and the outcome is predictably worse.

If I was to design a health service I would have diagnostics and general health completely private with set maximum prices and no barrier to competition. I would subsidize medical degrees to make them free and remove the number limits on them so there are more doctors trained.
I would encourage people to have as many early diagnostics as possible.
What's your thoughts?

I've done an advanced decision here

compassionindying.org.uk/how-we-can-help/living-will-advance-decision

If I have dementia then I don't want treatment for anything except pain relief so no antibiotics etc

Honestly I think it's unethical that we treat people worse than animals. Sat watching my mum dying, she wasn't going to recover, she wanted to die, she had early onset dementia.. yet she still had to go through actually dying? You would be pulled by the RSPCA for doing that to a dog

Don't forget that GP surgeries are in no way 'the NHS' - they are private companies of private practitioners who contract their services to the NHS. Some people think GPs are ripping off the NHS. I don't know enough about it to comment.

If your GP surgery provides free or additional services etc (which mine does, lots of, very lovely in fact) then please remember that these are either being funded indirectly by the NHS (maybe) -or- the surgery themselves are bringing it as an added service to their practice one way or another and / or funding it via other funding sources not from the NHS such as local authority grants for community groups or suchlike.

I agree that the NHS needs reform but personally I think there need to be some tough conversations about old age and how much we should seek to prolong life of people say, over 80, because older people do use the NHS much more and there are increasing numbers of them. There are also often QOL considerations. I’ll obviously be over 80 myself one day so it’s not like I’d escape this rationing but I’d accept it as the price of better healthcare throughout by earlier life.

Oh okay then. How about we also have some tough conversations about smoking, obesity, lack of exercise and all the other things that burden the NHS?

2 weeks ago I saw my gp for post menopausal spotting, 5 days later I was in hospital for an ultrasound and hysteroscopy, I had polyps removed there and then and was offered to return in 7 days for a mirena coil to be fitted.
2 weeks before I had my 3 yearly colonoscopy screening.
My prescriptions have been free for many years because of a medical condition I have too.
I have found them very efficient and I am so grateful for the high standard care they have given me.

MrsMorseEndeavour · Today 08:14

I think there need to be some tough conversations about old age and how much we should seek to prolong life of people say, over 80, because older people do use the NHS much more”

How many over 80s do you know? Mine rarely if ever use the NHS. I’m nearly 60, fit as a fiddle, no medications apart from tablets for meno night sweats which I expect I’ll come off of in the next year or two. With family history on both sides I fully expect to be going strong at 80. Having barely bothered the NHS my whole life (one surgery, problem solved), I think I’ll be entitled to a few treatments as I age, should I need them. I’ll know when I’m ready to go.

Euthanasia is the answer. You can’t just dismiss a whole age group.

I’m of a minority ethnic group and I can see why this does not feel like a needed service but the statistics do show that people from minority ethnic groups have higher death rates (e.g. with childbirth) and this is the type of statistic that these groups are tackling - why is this happening when healthcare should be for everyone?

Perhaps if they hired more people from other races higher up or if there was as much research on how different disease show up differently on different ethnic groups - then we would not need D&I. A change I have seen from 10 years ago are special maternity units for black and brown women due to them not being heard when they present an issue to their midwife which has led to death.

I know there are similar stories with skin cancer diagnosis due to there being a lack of understanding (amongst medical professionals) of how a mole or discoloured patch may appear on darker skin vs white or lighter skin. A doctor spent covid creating a chart -in his own time - to show how different skin issues appear on darker skin - I can’t believe this is a discussion that was brought to light in 2020.

Anyway I rely on the NHS . I do not have a huge income but I have found myself paying for private healthcare due to not being taken seriously by my GP. I then take the results from private to the NHS and they tend to react faster.

I agree the NHS does need a reform.

i agree, of course it is important!

and covid showed us the inequality also

@WillowTit Of course not. Don't be obtuse.

That was merely an example of waste, and of the assumption that so many people make - namely that the NHS is "free".

I suppose if you pay no tax and make no financial contribution and have spent your entire life on benefits and having "free prescriptions", you might think that everything is "free" - but for most people, it isn't.

If someone who is "not particularly unwell" is getting "masses of prescriptions - all for free", then perhaps someone ought to review his medication to see whether he actually needs them for his not-particularly-unwellness.

There is no prospect of me ever retiring, so I will be paying until I die.

I agree I’ve had so many issues with the NHS for getting help for mental health.

I was fortunate that my work offer private health care and I’ve been able to use that to get help. My partner is also covered on the policy and I’ve realised I’d never take a job where private healthcare isn’t an employee benefit. Which is sad really :(

That said I’m currently pregnant, and under the mental health team and the care and support I’ve got has been amazing!!! But I think it’s sad that I’ve had to get pregnant for me to get this level of service.

You can’t say you’re not going to treat anyone over a certain age.
more people could pay for prescriptions or use the yearly plan.

If the nhs becomes private how are all the people struggling to pay for energy/mortgage/Childcare going to manage.
There are also many people who have health issues who are not working and contributing to the economy as much as they would if they were healthy. There would be more of these people if health care had a point of use charge.
It will have a major negative effect on the economy.

#@FreshFromTheSinBin
how judgmental you are
where do you get this idea about him?
I suppose if you pay no tax and make no financial contribution and have spent your entire life on benefits and having "free prescriptions", you might think that everything is "free" - but for most people, it isn't.

If someone who is "not particularly unwell" is getting "masses of prescriptions - all for free", then perhaps someone ought to review his medication to see whether he actually needs them for his not-particularly-unwellness.

he doesnt need his medication reviewing.
what a charming poster you appear to be not! keep on working and never retire,
cheer up!

and am now desperate that we get an alternate 'pay for' system in place (which it somewhat is) so that people who can afford to do so can pay for certain scans, tests, treatments, to assist towards their case being diagnosed or moving forward without the need of the NHS.

Those things are very expensive so generally people who opt out of using the NHS for various things have private insurance. Although the NHS keeps that cost much lower than it would be otherwise

Would you prefer more choose private to relieve burden? Some countries do do this via tax rebates, and it relieves burden on the state. Politically though tax rebates are not welcome usually, even if other places do it successfully

I find it hilarious some of the things people say that have no clue what it’s like working in the nhs. It would be like me talking about overhauling Tesco.

Of course in a ideal world there would be GP appointments available early morning/weekends but if GPs provide those there will be no one to provide the usual weekday appointments.

Staffing is a massive issue. Recruitment and retention is becoming harder and harder. There are high levels of sickness (I would overhaul the sickness policy to weed out the pisstakers) and in general staff are stressed and becoming increasingly unhappy.

You cannot overhaul the nhs without the joined up thinking of social care. And there also needs to be wider public health initiatives. Theirs is so much poverty leading to poor health choices and poor health (diet, smoking etc).

Even if changes are introduced such as paying for services nothing will change overnight. There still will be no more staff unless you give significant pay rises.

There are no easy answers. It’s a very complex issue.

The thing I find frustrating is the 'well, do you want to be like America' comments that always arise in conversations about the NHS as if there are only two nations that have healthcare systems.

I appreciate that it seems like the government want to head down the US route, but there's plenty of functioning healthcare systems around the world we could take inspiration from.

@QueenCremant my surgery has evening appointments and weekends, every week (6.30pm - 8.30pm, all day Saturday and Sunday mornings)

But what they've done is teamed up so 10 GP surgeries, you ring at 6pm or on the weekend and get a slot. It likely won't be your usual GP and it's at a different surgery but still local

When I knew by Monday lunchtime I had a UTI, I rang at 6, appointment at 6.30, and was home having collected a prescription from the supermarket by 7pm. Can't fault it at all

I wasn't suggesting that your husband has spent his life on benefits, just to be clear.

I got the idea that he was "not particularly unwell" because you said so yourself. I also got the idea that he was getting "masses of prescriptions - all for free" because you said so yourself. You were implying that he didn't need all of these prescriptions but claimed them anyway because they weren't costing him anything.

If he had to pay for them himself (and even then, obviously, nobody pays the actual cost of the medicine, even if they pay for prescriptions), maybe he'd actually want a review.

Self-employed people do often tend to carry on working until they drop dead! Nothing gloomy about that - it's just a fact.

I found it easier to fly abroad to do a biopsy because NHS would not do it

I flew to Vilnius for £60 and stayed in a hotel for another £40. I did a full check up, biopsy, all the blood tests, scans and consultations regarding my issue. All in all it came to around £500 for two days visit.

So... what was the followup treatment? How have you got that followup treatment and care thru NHS or private?

Oh wait, OP didn't actually need a biopsy or any followup treatment which is what NHS said and what the biopsy confirmed, is why they "would not do it", right? What else are we to conclude but that OP was worried well.

Good point!

My experience had been it's amazing. Yes there are issues for sure, and I suppose it's a post code lottery.
But when my father had a stroke I couldn't fault the care and attention he got, how they treated him and my mother was such dignity and respect. He had his stroke in Spain and their response was 'get your family here'. They provided minimal nursing care and expect family members to do the washing/personal care.
When I got pregnant and developed type 1 diabetes the NHS took care of me. I was seen every week towards the end.
When my daughter had issues earlier this year they immediately got in to action and she was admitted -sure there were delays and some wasted time, but she got seen and diagnosed and now on excellent treatment.
In contrast I see my sister in America paying $000s a month for insurance, still having to pay $000s/year in co pay for her DD meds. My other sibling is a doctor and spends half her time trying to get insurance companies to authorise treatment. When my son was there and needed an epipen it was $500. So many ration out their meds as they simply can't afford them. Myra the NHS is broken, but we are so so lucky to have it.

In terms of the D&I staff, it costs a fortune to train a clinical member of staff, and there aren't that many in each speciality. If a member of staff from a minoritised group experiences eg racist bullying and leaves, that's a ton of cash down the drain. Of course there is the question of whether having a D&I director actually changes things, but I don't know that it doesn't.

You're absolutely right. I need a hysteroscopy. The NHS haven't even gotten to the part where I see the gynaecologist (I have over 2 months to go waiting for the appointment) even though I first reported the symptoms 2yrs ago.
I can take a £50 flight get it done for £400 + £40 hotel and if operative £800 + £200 hotel.
In England it's £3,500 +.
Ignorant, too lazy to think, want everything for free yet hates anyone who pays a decent amount of tax and not on benefit immediately go vile that you could dare to work, budget and sacrifice to get your opp paid for from your after tax earnings.

This country is spiralling down fast fuelled by those who see government as their parent and caretaker but hate those who are not on benefits, take care of themselves or pay higher rate taxes!

You were implying that he didn't need all of these prescriptions but claimed them anyway because they weren't costing him anything.

no, i didnt mean for that implication @FreshFromTheSinBin
there are necessary for his vision

Hi @StrawberriesSW1

I don't think a hysteroscopy without anaesthetic would cost £3,500 and if you don't need a procedure and it's just for investigative imaging, you could probably tolerate it without.

Have a look on some private gynae clinic pages and see what their fees are but I doubt it would be that much.

You’ll find that the over 50s are the biggest users of healthcare in the U.K.