NHS is finished

[Tulipsroses]

My experience with NHS is patchy. The maternity hospitals were good but some diagnostics I had to do were a nightmare. At one point I found it easier to fly abroad to do a biopsy because NHS would not do it and private clinic would charge a fortune.

I read about NHS horror stories and I can't stop thinking why on earth it's not abolished by now. It is clearly not sustainable. It's a black hole where you damp more money every year and the outcome is predictably worse.

If I was to design a health service I would have diagnostics and general health completely private with set maximum prices and no barrier to competition. I would subsidize medical degrees to make them free and remove the number limits on them so there are more doctors trained.
I would encourage people to have as many early diagnostics as possible.
What's your thoughts?

I don't think it needs to be abolished but it does need to be massively overhauled. I've experienced huge inefficiencies and wastage in the system and a few friends who are medics shake their heads at the insane bureaucracy.

The health trust near us is run incredibly well. They have pressure points (as does every Trust) but the CEO has created a brilliant culture and it's thought to be one of the best local employers. I think it shows that if it can be achieved locally, in time it can be achieved nationally. But people at the top have to care enough to invest the TLC that it needs.

It is currently recruiting well paid diversity consultants instead of medical staff.

that is because the medical staff would prefer to work elsewhere, or the training has been cut.
it is not either or

Over 80’s? You’re joking. Most NHS time re GPS is taken up with the ever increasing need to get referred to get an ADHD or Autism diagnosis, or a sick note for stress and anxiety, both situations predominantly in the under 50s. Also the A&E departments getting people using it like a walk in surgery. And of course uncontrolled immigration putting the NHS under a lot of additional pressure.

Why wouldn't they get an appointment because Saturday appointments were for those who work? If they're also in poor health they also need care!

Ah Lithuania. Are you from there OP?

Lithuania ensures free healthcare for its citizens. Some of the local hospitals have a pretty poor standard, but you can afford to pay there right?

You're alright Jack here or there.

Its the principle of allocating appointments on the basis of something other than medical need.

Oh yeah everyone has ADHD, autism, these days.

You can't mention a badly behaved child on here without aomeone saying they have SEN or autism.

"There is no such thing as a free lunch". (Milton Friedman) The idea that it's a free service makes some people delusional. Most western countries are spending more on health service as a percentage of GDP. However this spending comes from different sources and the health insurance contributions as a big fraction of the budget. Not like in America where it's absolutely out of control but some reasonable amount.

uncontrolled immigation?
are you sure this is the reason for the strain?

Health care is expensive so the NHS is going to be expensive. We have relied on stealing staff from poorer countries for too long to prop it up at a cheap rate. As a country we need to decide between paying higher tax, contributions at point of care or going private, the current model is not sustainable.

Personally as much as I think we need to discuss scope nurses, PA and paramedics need to be used more in primary care. Maybe we need a mandatory flow chart you have to answer which decide who see's you in the first instance. If you are found to have lied on it you get a fine.

We also have loads of psychology graduates that never make it onto training programs, their use in primary care to deal with the stress and anxiety cases would lesson some of the burden.

I agree with charging for the prime appointments e.g. I start work at 8am I would happily pay £100+ for a 6am appointment so I don't have to use annual leave. Would pay even more to do it by email or video call.

I'm also in Scotland. My GP surgery happily gives same day appointments however im lucky enough to be at a fantastic surgery, other surgeries in the city aren't so great. I'm registered with an NHS dentist however the dentists keep leaving so my scheduled appointments keep getting pushed back between 6-10 months.
l'm due surgery but again, have had no issues with this. I had my initial consultation with the surgeon and was scheduled in 8 weeks after this consultation for a minor, non life threatening surgery.

I do appreciate experiences vary throughout the country though.

As we grow old we use it more, so the problem will not be fixed without a reform. We will need more money in the system.

my dh gets masses of prescriptions - all for free - and he is not even particularly unwell

Any people wonder why the NHS is shite.

Actually, it's great for dire life-threatening emergencies (IME) but absolutely crap at everything else. It's no longer fit for purpose and we need a completely different system. Whatever the solution is needs to be a cross-party one, as part of the problem with the NHS is that it is so politicised. The same ought to be true of education.

@Sparehair that's one of the most disturbing posts I've ever seen on Mumsnet. Do you actually mean what you say? Why would you go for denying treatment to the very elderly rather than funding the nhs appropriately? Would you seriously air this view not on an anonymous forum? Would you say it to an old person, to their family? Not even the rightest of right wing governments would share your view.

Money isn't the issue. If every single person in the country donated their entire salary to the NHS, it would still swallow it up and be crap. Waste is a massive problem. Even tiny things like having the heating on and the windows open in hospitals!

No we don't. The NHS needs to stop squandering the money they're given on red tape and managers.

Healthcare now represents 40% of all government spending. An additional £ 12 billion was agreed on top of the planned increase in financial support. At this rate, the NHS will represent 50% of all government expenditure. The reality is that additional funding will either have to come from an increase in direct taxation, on top of the cost of living crisis, or taken from elsewhere. Where do you suggest; UC, Education or Defence?

You could cram the entire GDP into the maw of the NHS and it would still demand more and screech about underfunding - even (as now) with the consultants’ car park full of Jags and Mercs.

The NHS doesn’t even do irony well.

you think that means the NHS is shite?
how weird
i assume once you are retired you want to opt to continue to paying for prescriptions?

I do think GP appointments need to be more than Monday to Friday 8-5. I think weekend services should be provided, however I understand that GP vacancies can't be filled under the current model, therefore we probably wouldn't be able to fulfil extra hours even if GPs were happy to do so

I think we need to make much more use of nurses, paramedics, pharmacists etc. But again, we need more of these.

People do unfortunately take advantage of a 'free service', especially those who don't actually pay into it in the first place.

The issues with the NHS really are multifaceted. I wonder who gives input in to the running of the nhs; is it nurses, doctors and other AHPs or is it politicians only?

People do unfortunately take advantage of a 'free service', especially those who don't actually pay into it in the first place.
who and what @BubbleBubbleBubbleBubblePop

I think we need a brand new elderly care system.

From GP Services, Fracture Clinics to End of Life care for anyone over 80.

But nobody would pay for it. And it's an awkward conversation.

You must not have seen the post on the last big thread about the NHS. The one that suggested no medical care once people hit 70.

I think, @WillowTit, that she means why does someone get loads of medication if they're not particularly unwell. It's that which is maybe wrong rather than the issue of paying for prescriptions, I suspect this is her point.

oh thanks @anythinginapinch
not unwell in the usual sense, but not good vision, so this is to save it.

My experiences of the NHS are positive in the main. The real issue is that problems like obesity and all the problems that come with that. A lot of people will be heading for a very unhealthy old age unless that changes. I cannot think of much worse than living a long time and in declining health for the last 30 years of it.

the community services need to be sorted out before the acute settings can even begin.

Community beds don't tend to be NHS, they are often funded by local government and under social services remit. Local Government funding has been decimated over the years.