Slight worry that friend's DD is being abused

[namechanged1234]

A couple of things have happened recently that have made me slightly concerend about my friend's DD, who is 5. She (the 5 yr old) told me something that I found quite odd, and also she has been ill with constant urinary infections. Do you think I'm right to be (slightly) concerned? She is sometimes left alone with a male relative (not her dad). Are there any other classic signs? I don't want to speak to her mum about this unnecessarily, as it could all be nothing, but on the other hand I'd hate to think that anything was happening to her. Any advice would be most appreciated - I'm a regular poster by the way but have changed name in case anyone might realise who I'm talking about. thanks.

Sorry no experience or advice.

I think if it was me, I would ask/say something to the mum. The phrase better safe than sorry comes to mind. And if I was the mum I'd be glad someone was being watchful even if they were wrong.

I do hope you are wrong.

I would talk to their teacher. They have training to pick up signs and he/she would be alerted if something crops up.

You are right to be concerned, even if the best happens and you turn out to be wrong.

Have you had the child over for a play date? Often their little overheard chats can be revealing

i think more than one urinary tract infection is investigated properly in a child.

I think without knowing what it was she said, we can't really understand, tbh.

perhaps ask mum about UTI's first and then perhaps let her know what was said

More than one urinary infection is not always investigated - my daughter suffered with repeated urinary infections for four years before we were referred. Don't let the repeated urinary infections lead you up the wrong path.

Without knowing what she said, we can't possibly know whether you are right to be concerned or not.

it definately depend what she said

Would also depend on what she said.

How is she in herself?

Does she appear withdrawn or unduly retreated into herself?

Reading This from Every Child Matters should help you

Thanks for that link Shiny. Hoping it will be useful to OP, hope she comes back

Thanks so much for all your messages - sorry for taking so long to get back, DCs don't seem to want to sleep tonight! I don't really want to repeat what she said, but basically it seemed to imply that she had seen the relative's penis in an aroused state. Which in itself may be a completly innocent mistake, but the two things together just made me think twice. She is often quite difficult at school, although when she's been to play here she seems fine. I think I may try to very gently coax a bit more information out of her next time she's here and then maybe have a quiet word with her teacher if I'm still concerned. As I said, it could be nothing, and really hope that it is.

I think it would be better to mention it confidentially to a teacher you trust than to not mention it and wonder whether you'd left a child at risk.

Or do you know the mum well enough to mention what the daughter has said to you? If it were me I would want to know, really I would.

I wouldn't speak to the mum direct I'd speak to the teacher or ring NSPCC

DO NOT under any circumstances at all question the child further.

Seriously

You could a) put words in her mouth or b) damage her by the wrong kind of questions

If you are concerned you need to raise it with someone who has been trained to talk to young children

Seriously, please .. do not try to get more information out of the child .. the very worst thing you can do.

Constant urinary infections, in my area, have standard protocols of hospital referral and scans for kidney function under the age of 5

The teacher will be required to report it.

Agree 100% with Twig on all of her points.

The issue of putting words into her mouth is the biggest one from a legal standing if you are right,

Yes, be wary about directly asking the child about it because it could be suggested that you have suggested this to her.

You might engineer a conversation with your own dd with child present about not showing certain parts of the body, as they are private...and see what she might say.

It also depends on her background. A 4 yr old I knew could tell you in concise anatomical detail about sex and what would happen to his body when older, because he asked where babies made, and his mother believed in being completely open and bought him a book about bodies and how they change.

Maybe what you are after is for someone else to confirm you are right to be worried?

It's difficult because all 3 things could have innocent explanations: urinary infections can sometimes be persistent and nasty, she may, like the child in Heated's post, have seen a book or something about human anatomy (or does she have any older siblings who might have said things in front of her?) - and she might be difficult at school because the school or some aspects of it don't suit her. Maybe ringing NSPCC would be the best thing as they can advise you in confidence.

Twigg is right.

DO NOT question her. however gently you think you are doing it.
WE actually have to get specialy trained child interviewers in to talk to childreno f this age as it is such a delicate matter.

I do think that it is odd for a child of that age to speak of an erect penis and she should under no circumstances have seen one.

Speaking to a teacher about it is certainly a good first step. teh teacher will be obliged to make a report so the prospect will be investigated.
the mother will undoubtedly know that it was school that made the referral but you will never be mentioned.

Worst case scenario is that you are right. the mother will be made aware and a man who has abused a child will be investigated.
best case, your wrong!

@"I do think that it is odd for a child of that age to speak of an erect penis and she should under no circumstances have seen one. "
Ditto
Totally agree.
I would speak to the mother-if she is a friend you she will appreciate how hard is is for you too discuss-otherwise you should speak to a professional.

Totally agree with Twiglett, do not question the child yourself but seek professional advice. You could try the NSPCC helpline and see what they say.
I have been in a similar situation since a paediatrician at the local hospital thought dd had been abused, due to the combination of her having very frequent UTIs and joint pains which he could not diagnose (nothing showing on the X-ray so he took it to be trauma-related). In fact, both these symptoms were due to the same genetic disorder, which apparently is perfectly easy to diagnose.
Throughout this time I was terrified that she would be emotionally damaged by unsuitable questions, and indeed she has needed counselling, but much less so than if she had been questioned by someone without training.
There is also the legal aspect, as a previous poster pointed out. If she has been abused, but you then ask her leading questions, it will be impossible for a prosecutor to prove that she is not simply repeating what you have suggested to her.

Embarrassing admission but ds did notice that dh - who sleeps naked - looks ahem a bit different 1st thing in the mornings when leaping out of bed to stick ds on the loo...