The cause of cancer (or causes)

[vannah]

I would really like to hear anyones view on what they believe causes cancer.

I ask this because I am baffled and devastated by the number of people I know or know of who have died of cancer in the past 5 years, most were young - ie in late 30's/early 40s.

I firmly believe that its more to do with emotions, and the effect of stress on your cells, more so than diet. I say this because of the people I know who have died, unhappiness seems to be the common denominator - or 'bitterness'.

Some people agree with me, a few friends believe its more likely genetic (though I believe this is not true for all cancers),

what are your thoughts? If you knew of someone who died, would you say that unhappiness or poor diet may have been a link?

thankyou

Why thank you mb, my dear

this is a diagraom that shows the simplified stages in the formation of a cancer....no nasty pictures

It helps to explain the 'cascade' of mutations that have to happen if a tunour is formed (with apols to Tamum, who will find this a farcical oversimplification!

so, in other words, for some reason or another, a person's immune system just doesn't detect or kill off the mutant cells?

how does the tumour grow?

i mean, how does it divert blood to it to 'eat', basically?

There are a series of genes which act as 'switches' to start and stop cell division. All cells need to divide (except brain cells), that is normal. Cancer is when the growth becomes uncontroled.

And that is because switches which usualy stop cell division (tumour supressor genes) and turned off, and oncogenes (which make cells divide) are turned into permanent 'on'

think of it as being in a car with the break disconected and the accelerator full on! Cells are driven to divide without restriction.

The immune system does 'mop up' stray tumour cells, but the main factors are these genetic 'switches'

As Tamum says, these are the route of all cancers.

Sometimespeople are born with them affected. Cancer causing compounds , can cause them to mutate, chance mutations can cause them to mutate (which is why the longer you live the more likely you are to get cancer, the 'chance' mutation finaly happened IYSWIM)

I firmly believe that artificial sweeteners contribute to certain cancers and avoid them wherever possible.

Ah, okay!

I'm trying to remember back to university biology here.

I remember the lecturer saying these tumour cells just grow out of control and don't follow 'normal' cell growth - they're all different sizes, clumped on top of each other, etc.

How do they get energy to keep growing, though? Does a tumour somehow divert blood supply to itself to get nourishment?

That's the part I don't get.

I can't really improve on mb's explanation except to add that immune surveillance isn't always that great at picking up tumour cells however strong someone's immune system is- mutant cells will often still be recognised as "self". Tumour cells are just brilliant at adapting and finding ways round anything that would kill them- it's like a micro version of evolution unfortunately.

Oh yes, tumour cells secrete factors that promote angiogenesis, the formation of new blood vessels- they are excellent at all that sort of thing.

K, I see!

And by diverting the blood supply to itself, it deprives organs, I suppose?

I can now see why it's so hard to cure, because no one really knows what causes these cells just to start growing like that.

No one 'cause', then.

No,loads of possible causes, and lots of them just stochastic, so very difficult to find any kind of cure. That's right about the blood supply- it diverts nutrients away from the rest of the body. Horribly efficient.

Not only does the tumpur get lots of blood, it also takes lots of nutrients from the person.....part of the reason that cancer patiens look so 'wasted'. Before the chemo shrunk dhs tumours he was advised to eat 7000 calories a day! The man nurse estimated that his tumours would take 5000 of that!

Whoa.

Thanks for the explanations, Tamum and MB .

I'm so impressed by the detailed knowledge you guys have. I thought I understood in simple terms what cancer is, but when I found out I have it myself and started reading about it I realised what a very complicated thing is it.

The way I see it, stress or lack of it, good diet, exercise etc are all influences on your chances of survival because they help your body to work properly or not. That way your body will repair itself better. But it will still only change the odds very slightly. The main things are the factors you can't control, the genetic stuff. Until better ways of detecting these and preventing cancer are developed, it's luck to a very large degree.

I spend most of my time doing cancer research so it would be a pretty poor show if I didn't have any specialist knowledge, anorak You're right, it is horribly complicated, but there is progress being made, faster than at any time I remember.

tamum has the real info, I just blag it at A level, level!

Err, no, you know exectly what you're talking about and you understand physics

The head of physics wouldn't agree!

I just can't think like a physist....too dull!

be grateful for that MB.

my dad's younger sister is married to a physicist .

the rspid growth of cancer which distinguishes it from most cells is what enables chemotherapy attack the cancer cells and not your whole body, it targets rapidly dividing cells. This is why it aslo affects your bone marrow (low white cell count) and cells in the mouth (ulcers etc) as side effects because they also have cells that divide rapidly.

COnsultant at the Marsden said that ironically because my mothers cancer was agressive, it may respond better to the chemo as it was dividing so rapidly that it was easier to target. HE said that sometimes slower growing cancers can be harder to deal with via chemo.

Sorry, it's a bit inappropriate to be posting light-heartedly. That's quite right though- also why hair drops out because of rapidly dividing cells in the hair follicle.

I know the thread has moved on, but I just want to add that I think this whole notion of mind over matter regarding cancer is bullshit, and so awful for anyone who is fighting a losing battle with the disease, or has a loved one battling it. I'm sure in some cases, it can have a placebo effect, but if cancer is coming for you, it's coming for you and it's largely down to genetics and luck at how soon it's caught and the type of cancer you have whether you will survive.

My 73 year old father was mountain biking in South American this time last year. You would never have met a person with a more glass half full attitude to life. Today he is bed ridden, virtually incapable of speech and unable to even sit himself up in bed. He has little more than days left to live now because of an incredibly aggressive small cell cancer which has ravaged his body in a matter of months. He did everything he could, and never once accepted that this disease was going to kill him. But it is, and to suggest that any kind of bitterness or stress contributed to his lack of success at beating the illness is both cruel and ridiculous. Obviously it's an emotional hot point for me right now, and I am sorry that the original OP has lost people close to her, but I think her hypothesis is wrong.

Diet can play a part, lifestyle can play a part, but genetics is key IMO, and understanding the behaviour of cancer is key. We need more research. I had no idea how little was known about how cancers behave until my father was diagnosed, and how practically no one cancer is the same, and no one body will react to the cancer, or the treatment in an identical way.

Apologies for rant, but this thread has caught me at the end of an emotionally very raw day.

Sycamore, I couldn't agree more. I am so sorry about your father- small cell is just so awful. Kathy mentioned John Diamond's fantastic book earlier- he makes the same points as you, for the same sort of reasons.

Sycamoretree, so sorry about your father. It is a bastard disease.

I agree with you 100%

None of the people that I've met in the last year have 'given up'

Even dh, who knows he has a terminal diagnosis is determined to get as much out of life as he can.

As he puts it so well,' We plan for the worst and hope for the best'

So far we have been fortunate, but it is all down to luck

My father died of prostate cancer. He wasn't bitter at all. He was the most carefree person. His father died of prostate cancer and his two brothers have been diagnosed, so yes I think it's more genetic than "bitterness".

My grandmother and great-grandmother both had uteran cancer when they died and my aunt also had uteran tumors found, and my mother had a hysterectamy (sp?) at the age of 36 because of uteran tumors. UMMM a genetic link . . . I think so.

I have to echo other posters when I say that your bitterness theory is hurtful. Some of my family members have been mean nasty people, and others are the most happy-go lucky. Some have had great diets some haven't.

MB and others who have posted god so sorry for your situations. I can't hope to join in the complex medical talk. But can I just ask Tamum what you think of the two stories of apparently spontaneous regressions (from lalaa and kerrymum if i'm right). Have you heard of anything like this in your research.