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Original poster

baby jabs. tell me why you didn't have them done

50 replies

fingerwoman · 06/01/2008 22:00

I am umming and ahhing over baby jbs for ds2.
not sure what's best.
it's now 3 injections all on the same day and I just don't like it

if you didn't get your baby jabbed, why not? I have read bits and pieces about them but I need more info really.

if I decided to get them done would I be able to request that he have them one at a time? or is it all 3 or nothing?

I am slightly scared as my friend is a nurse and had a baby in with diptheria the other day

OP posts:
nimnom · 07/01/2008 14:03

Hi Fingerwoman,
I did have mine vaccinated and didn't have to think twice about it so I'm probably not the person you want to hear from, but if I were you I would talk to a qualified health professional, wheter it be your gp,hv or someone else you know.
I asked my gp if he had his 4 kids vaccinated and he said yes - if he thinks it's safe enough for his kids thats good enough for me - I am not a qualified medic so i have to rely on the people who have the training and knowledge to guide me in these decisions.
Also, if people stop vaccinating, these "old" diseases will return and they are not nice. Look at what happened with the MMR scare.
Sorry to go on but I feel quite strongly about this.

nimnom · 07/01/2008 14:13

Immunisation guy on Five Live now - will be of interest to you i think.

pagwatch · 07/01/2008 14:23

My DD hasn't had any jabs. She is now aged 5.
I didn't have them because DS2 is profoundly autistic and we firmly believe his vaccinations caused his problems( he is part of the MMR "scare" ). We are extreme in that regard though obviously and it may be more appropriate for you just to space the jabs at a pace more comfortable for you.

To be a bit more specific. We looked at each jab and weighed the benefits against the potential risk for my DD, in consultation with our Doctor and a friend who is an expert on these things as well as a lot of reading. My DD has raging excema and periodic chest problems and a really crap immune system so she seemed highly likely to be vulnerable in the same way her brother was. My GP has always talked these things through with me and FWIW is totally comfortable with what we have decided.
It is very difficult as at each stage we not only had to look at DD but also had to consider what I would broadly call social responsibility. I guess you always have to make the best decision you can as there so rarely is a perfect choice. We review this regularly and may have jabs at a later date but for now none.

Just read and research all you can and try and find a way to make yourself comfortable with your choices. Waffly I know but we can only make our best decision for our individual children

nimnom · 07/01/2008 14:44

pagwatch - I have never heard from someone caught up in the MMR/autism situation who speaks with such good sense and in such measured tones.So often the message that comes across is no immunisations, not ever for anyone . I didn't mean to belittle anyones situation with MMR and autism(sorry if it sounded like that), but I just think that there was a lot hysteria surrounding the MMR which led to a lot of people not thinking through their choices properly. I personally know people who would not take advice from their GP on MMR - so who do they trust? It sounds to me like you have an excellent GP who understands your situation well, and whilst I am very pro-immunisation, I totally understand your viewpoint.

annobal · 07/01/2008 14:50

Fingerwoman - I was given this book to read for DS3. They also have a website here. Hope this helps

pagwatch · 07/01/2008 14:51

nimnom

ruty · 07/01/2008 14:57

nimnom - go and read some of the threads on MMR on MN [there are a couple going on at the moment] and you may find more good sense and measured tones, like pagwatch. No one claims MMR is not safe for the majority. It is. Wakefield's hypothesis was that MMR may be responsible for only about 8% of all autism cases, and what he was trying to do was identify the small minority of vulnerable children who may be at risk from MMR. This may seem not that important to most people, it is of course highly important to those families whose children may have been at risk and who may have been damaged by MMR. More research desperately needs to be done, even the govt's own Cochrane report concluded that there is insufficient research to know for sure whether MMR is safe or not [for everyone]

fingerwoman if you do not have a family history of serious allergies or auto immune disorders then the current baby vaccines are pretty safe. They have been improved massively over the last few years - they now have acellular pertussis [good] inactive polio [good] and no thimerosal [mercury very good] If you are really worried and your baby doesn't need to go to daycare there is no harm until waiting until your baby is 6 months old, and a bit bigger and stronger. But the baby jabs as far as I know are not flagging up serious problems at the moment.

ruty · 07/01/2008 14:58

i mean they are now mercury free which is very good, just in case it was not clear!

ruty · 07/01/2008 15:00

I think that book is a bit one sided annobal - homeopaths are dead against all vaccines. Dr Richard Halvorsen [look up on Amazon] has just published a good book on vaccines. He is a gp in london but also a vaccine expert. HTH.

nimnom · 07/01/2008 15:45

I'll do that Ruty.

electra · 07/01/2008 19:27

The baby vaccines concern me much more than the MMR for my particular children, to be honest. I disagree with current policy on when they are given - too young imo, especially because I have not been able to find a clinical reason why, and I heard that it has to do with the authorities being aware that mums often go back to work quite early, and wanting to "catch" children so to speak.

To me, it doesn't make sense to give a baby a vaccination at such a young age when they are not yet able to control their own body temperature.

I am also still appalled at how long it took the UK to follow what the US did and take thimerosal out of the DTP.

Original poster
fingerwoman · 07/01/2008 21:09

I have actually just ordered the Halvorsen book from amazon after seeing it mentioned on an MMR thread, so hopefully that will arrive soon and help me think through my choices.

My gut instinct was to just hold off until he is a bit older. DS1 had his at the "right" time, but hasn't had the MMR and I then read about risks associated with the baby jabs too and got myself all worried

this parenting lark is far too complicated.

nimnom- I kind of feel that there is no point talking to a health professional because surely they all have to follow the govt line of "imms are safe. end of story"
obviously if you have a history of probs liek pagwatch then the situation is different, but for the general population I think that's the response most people would get.
or maybe I am just cynical lol

OP posts:
yurt1 · 07/01/2008 21:26

When ds2 was born I didn't know what we were going too do. We knew ds1 was likely to be diagnosed as autistic. We had no idea how severe he was. The day ds2 was due to have his baby jabs he was ill so I cancelled. He was actually very ill for a while so I left him to build up some more strength. I then decided he wasn't have thimerosal in any jabs so that ruled out the (then) standard DTP, so I decided to postpone. Chatted to the GP who said I was asking him to guarantee that he would be fine with the jabs which he couldn't do but I may as well get them done. I postponed again. By now I'd began to read more, had realised that ds1 was definitely autistic, had realised that if he had leaky gut then ds2 quite possibly had leaky gut and was therefore more at risk. Read some more, decided I would like ds2 to receieve a tetanus jab- but not with thimerosal. There was no other choice, so we left that.

When ds3 was born thimerosal had gone from the baby jabs. But he wasn't having 5 or 6 in 1. So still no tetanus. Worried a bit about Hib with him as he wasn't bfed for very long (ds2 was bfed fro 2 years) and attended daycare earlier than the other 2. But then it came out that the hib jab was nowhere near as effective as it was meant to be anyway Anyway I'm glad we left him as it turns out he has the exact same gut problem as ds1. I'm pleased he avoided gluten and casein as well in the early years, and antibiotics. He's 3 now and fine.

So now here we are. I'd still like ds2 and ds3 to have a tetanus jab, but a single (or with D) one, with no thimerosal. I can dream. If they leave childhood (get to 10ish) without having caught measles I might give them a single measles jab as well.

pagwatch · 08/01/2008 14:16

Goodness Yurt - I am amazed that my process with DD was so similar. We kept looking at individual jabs trying to kind of justify them iyswim and then couldn't.DH called it a policy of procrastination
DD has almost constant coughs and breathing probs so not sure I will ever risk anything with her. I think I am doomed to worry about her one way or another

DS1 has just refused the bcg and i wait with some trepidation for a rugby injury or such that will require a DTp for tetnus.
Interestingly DH was bitten by a dog and was told he needed a tetnus jab. He asked what else was in it ( just out of curiosity ) and was assured by 2 staff that it was just tetnus. They then had to give him a little card which clearly showed it was dpt. When he pointed it out they did squirm a little. But as he said - why on earth be disingenuous about it to an adult who is rolling his sleeves up and intending to have the jab ? We thought it was quite a good example of the slightly bunker mentality around this issue now.

ruty · 08/01/2008 14:24

bunker mentality or just ignorance.
My gp keeps telling me i can get ds a single tetanus jab, despite me telling her frequently that I can't.

Sixofone · 08/01/2008 14:25

We did have them done, but one at a time.
after dd's first jab (the 5 in 1 one) she appeared to regress; I took her straight back and they basically told me that I was mistaken, but I knew my own baby.

She was only 6lbs when she was due for her first one, and this is my probably wrong theory, but, the dosage is based on a certain 'average' weight baby, and if your baby is less than that, they will have less blood volume and therefore won't the concentration of the vaccine be higher in the blood? (and therefore, more dangerous?)

Anyhow, after that, I insisted that she would only have one at a time, and that is what we did, and all have been fine after that including the MMR. I left it quite a while until she had caught up weightwise.

There are lots of studies saying that tripling up the jabs is safe, but nothing to say that it is BENEFICIAL. The only reason they do it imo is to save health worker's time; the burden otherwise of the vast number of jabs on the health system would be huge.

Balls to that anyway, you do what you feel is right for your baby. Stick to your guns if you want them one at a time. It was definitely the right decision for us.

Spidermama · 08/01/2008 14:28

I like this book. The author also does lectures around the country. This is another great one.

I find the literature from The Informed Parent and JABS very helpful too.

rosealbie · 08/01/2008 14:31

My dd had her baby jabs but has since had chemo and had to be reimmunised with a booster of the baby ones and the MMR. Anyway, I decided this time around (she is 3 and a half) to have them done separately.

Surprisingly we had to wait for 2 weeks in between each jab which seems odd when they would normally have them all in one go as a booster.

Sixofone · 08/01/2008 14:36

If you are medically inclined, this link is to the DoHGreen Book which lists all the procedures which should be followed for immunisations, including why you do (or don't) need a gap between jabs.

Makes quite interesting reading, and was good for printing bits off and going to wave at the nurses when I wanted the MMR and they told me I couldn't have it as we had to wait a month between jabs!!

yurt1 · 08/01/2008 14:56

You can't do that now though soxofonee (have them one at a time- the baby ones-) they don't exist in single forms.....

Same process Pagwatch, same reason! Officially they are 'delayed' but I can't imagine ever having the vast majority of them. And ds2 is 6 next week.... It was a very slowly evolving decision though.

Original poster
fingerwoman · 08/01/2008 16:13

but I could have the 3 jabs singly couldn't I?
the dtp is all one
then the hib
then the pneumococcal one

OP posts:
yurt1 · 08/01/2008 16:16

I'm not sure whether you can get DTaP-Polio without hib and men C.

yurt1 · 08/01/2008 16:17

you may be able to get polio separately, I don't think its possible to get a baby jab that doesn't contain pertussis though.

Original poster
fingerwoman · 08/01/2008 16:18

it isn't all in one jab though is it? my friends baby had his done a few months ago and she said it was 3 separate jabs.
so technically I could get them to do them a few weeks apart

OP posts:
LaylaandSethsmum · 08/01/2008 16:20

You can't get baby jabs without the pertussis component, Hib is not available on its own it is now combined with Men C ( although not licensed for babies under 12 mths), pneumococcal remains a single.All the childhood jabs for babies and pre schoolers currently contain Hib.