MMR on Dispatches

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Channel 4 9pm Thursday, a programme (another one!) about MMR. That's it really, just thought it might be of interest to some.

I don't know but look what he says on his website (deer's website).... he is obviously on a mission but the reason is unknown to me:
Following Deer's investigation, the UK's health secretary, Dr John Reid, referred the MMR scandal to the General Medical Council, the doctors' disciplinary body, asking for an inquiry. This page follows those developments, and gateways to materials collected at this site concerning Andrew Wakefield

Thankyou chaps!
We should be vigilanty type mums and gang up on some of these unethical/awful peeps!

Lockets, have mailed you.

Well well well, Brian Deer made this documentary into a "That's Life" type of production.
I wonder if he did a good job enough to help along the uptake of MMR for the Governments effort?

This programme looked so edited it has just left me totally confused. Do I dont I? As a biology graduate I have always with no doubt in my mind supported immunisation programmes but in the face of autism that gets flung out the window. You may all think it is shit to show this dispatches but what about the deluge of unbased allegations into vaccine damage on the internet. We have to weigh up risks every day. If most of the population decides against vaccinations epidemics will occur resulting in many deaths this has been scientifically proven. The parents of autistic children, harrowing though that their stories are, are not scientists and just want to get the truth. Who knows that the info they get is true? As a parent I want the best for my child and part of that is finding some sort of explanation when things go wrong. Just some thoughts out loud.

i for one still have a very open and confused mind
I was very interested to see prof w's reasearch assistant to say that he couldn't find any measles in the tissues he reasearched. He was only able to voice this opinion once he had got his PhD and a new position.
For me this in itself does actually raise some questions about the methodology of the original research.
Must admit I was angry to hear that the research was like "child abuse" FFS, that was a crap bit of TV journalism. he wants wakefield etc to talk to him rationally, yet is willing to quote an annonymous dr who alleges child abuse. Pot calling the kettle and all that.
I aslo am findin it very difficult to see dr wakefield in USA selling products- what is that all about?? was he really so controversial that he can't get another post in this country and has to resort to this type of behaviour?
And what about they guy who treats autistic children with his own bone marrow thinking dr wakefield is a bit crazy?
I'm more confused than ever!!

Just watched it. A very poor, totally unbalanced piece of journalism. Kept waiting for the other side of the argument but it never happened. Should have been called 'A hatchet job on Wakefield' because that unfortunately was all it was.
My dd had the MMR and a friend's brother (who didn't) died from a severe form of measles so I am biased towards the triple jab - but can't honestly say that this programme made me feel in any way shape or form that I had made the right decision. Annoyed I bothered watching it.

I thought it was a very bad programme, which obscured as much as it elucidated. The connections were very difficult to follow and I felt that they were trying to blind the audience with science. It didn't really explain anything, and let's face it didn't really try and engage constructively with the anti-MMR people (if someone doorstepped me at a professional conference I'd be totally pissed off and certainly wouldn't give them the time of day, let alone an interview) but would have left anyone neutral or slightly hostile with the idea that Wakeman or Wakefield or whatever he's called, is a BAD LOT. Which I guess was the intention of the programme, so in that sense it was successful.

Yeah Cab, that's how I feel - like I've wasted a precious hour of my life when i could have been doing something useful!

Wakefield could have offered to speak to the journalist at some later date to refute the allegations. Instead, he chooses to hide behind his solicitors. Why didn't his other cohorts stand up to be counted as well? If they are so confident in their work, refute the allegations.

As for the programme being unbalanced, the anti-MMR/vaccine lobby have dominated the media for a long time with their hysterical scaremongering so it's time we heard the other side.

If the programme had supported Wakefield, the anti-MMR brigade would be patting the journalist on the back and there would be no comments about it being one sided. Just because it did not support your viewpoint, does not mean the points it raised weren't valid.

probably shouldn't contribute here.. but can't let that one pass..
'hysterical scaremongering'..

I think that is rather an inflammatory accusation aimed at many parents, who are quite rightly concerned about vaccinations.

My brother is autistic and the family would like to know why this disorder occurred. I believe that Wakefield has clouded the issue by using the MMR link without first proving conclusively there was a connection.

The "hysterical scaremongering" was in reference to newspapers like the Daily Wail and their completely unbalanced reporting on the MMR jab.

I've said before and I'll say it again - if parents want single vaccines for their children they should be able to get them - free!

Agree, Joolstoo.

I stumbled on the programme and only half watched as I was still putting ds to bed but I was startled by the revelation that 6 months before announcing the worries about the possible link between MMR and autism, Dr W had put in for a patent for a measles vaccination. The implication is that if he had managed discredit MMR thoroughly enough and governments etc started to look for single vaccines, his would be a competitor in a huge market. That may not be what was intended at all but if there WERE a secret commercial interest, that would change a lot of things. And I agree about the selling of 'anti-Autism' products in USA - what's that about? The family who blamed themselves for letting their now autistic daughter have the MMR later revealing that there was autism in the family was a 'coup' for Deer. I'd also like to know what HIS secret mission is!

Amai I am the parent of an autistic child. I have a PhD in Biology. Some of us are scientists. What we are not are idiots. I believe my son was damaged by thimerosil (see recent Columbia research - then see crap spouted by dept of health). You don't have to be a scientist t notice if your normally developing child is one day laughing and pointing and then within 3 weeks of having the MMR is screaming in pain, wiping shit on the walls and having seizures (durr didn't quite notice the seizures before). Then at this time regresses, stops pointing a loses language. Hmmm maybe the most parsimonious explanation is that in these (very small number) of cases the MMR has done just a wee bit of damage.

People like Wakefield, Shattock et al believe that about 7% of autism is triggered by MMR. Many professionals working with autistic children believe the same and will tell parents that in private. My friend's paed for example told her that although it could never be proved the fact that her dd had a series of very severe seizures immediately following the MMR did suggest that im It is his belief that some children are more vulnerable.

Didn't see the programme- but can someone explain to me the accusations about child abuse. If it was because the children had to be flown to the States to have the CS fluid taken then I would agree (fuck a plane load of severely autistic kids- I'd rather hang myself then spend 5 minutes on that- and the idea of putting ds1 in a plane fills me with horror)- but that was as a result of govt obstruction- Wakefield and parents tried very hard to get the samples taken in this country. It was an impossibility.

Apparently there was an interesting report in the Indie recenty on autism, thimerosil and the link with autoimmunity. Did anyone see it- would love to read it.

Very relieved I didn't waste my time with Deer. What's this about selling autism cures as well. Wakefield knows its lifelong- that's his point. He understands that the condition is not fun and does not go away. And anyway I'm one pretty much every autism list going (UK and US) and have never heard of Wakefield trying to flog anything.

Michaelsmum- if you read Wakefield's statement below you will see that he did not put in a patent application for a measles vaccine.

`seemed to only half finish the sentence about my friend. Anyway point being her paed told her (in private) that in her case it was likely that her dd's autism was triggered by MMR.

Uhu the reasons aren't valid because they are lies.

Talking of damage to the vaccination programme- I think the dept of health has done the most damage. I started off rabidly pro vax- which is why ds1 had his done all on time (which is probably what screwed him up but still). I started to research the MMR- the original papers- then started reading the blatent misrepresentations coming from the dept of health. Eventually I'd read such a pile of distorted crap from them (and this was before we realised ds1 was autistic) I decided I didn't trust anything they had to say on the MMR. And then thought if they were saying that about the MMR - what about the others. So did my own research in DTP. I should probably thank them as if I had trusted them ds2 would have had his thimerosil dose. As it was I found out about potential problems with it 3 years ago and decided to steer well clear. And he's fine.

Having seen the offensive pile of shit the dept of health robots wheeled out when they swopped from thimerosil containing dtwp's to the 5 in 1 recently (yeah polio jab right- nothing to do with thimerosil I'm sure) I don't trust a word they say. I stick to doing my own research, reading the original papers and making my own mind up.

Now they've removed thimerosil (several years behind most other countries) I suspect the numbers of cases of autism will start to drop again (not that they'll bother to record them). Just one mini damaged generation- and they won't cost too much to support in lifelong care. So we can forget all about them and no-one has to admit anything to anyone.

And doesn't the recent link with brain inflammation support everything that's been said about autism being about abnormal immune (or autoimmune) response? Inflammation has been pretty much at the heart of this controversy.
And it used to be totally accepted that, yes, of course vaccination caused side-effects, sometimes devastating ones, in children. There is a huge vaccine compensation scheme in the US, yet suddenly vaccination - no matter how many doses - is 110% safe and anyone who says differently has to be hounded out of the country. I am waiting for it to happen to the reserchers into Gulf War syndrome who have expressed concern about multiple vaccinations.
I am not a scientist, nor am I the parent of an autistic child, but I have also read the original research into thimerosil and I strongly recommend it to anyone who buys the gvmt line that there is nothing wrong with it being in vaccinations for tiny babies.

I have every sympathy with parents of autistic children - I have friends who have a severely autistic son (in his 20's now) and I now what a constant strain this is on the family. However, I think the point is that there has been no proven link between MMR and autism. The decision on whether or not to vaccinate is never going to be an easy one, and I deliberated over it for some time before deciding to go ahead. What made me finally decide was the fact that although there may have been a potential risk of autism occuring, I didn't feel this was higher than the risk of dd contracting measles (for example) and the very real possibility of severe complications, even death. Assuming that there is a link to autism, does anyone know if any research has been done into why some children develop it and others don't - anything specific that may be compromising their immune systems for example (i.e. family history, any medical problems prior to MMR etc.)? I have to say that although I didn't warm to Deer or his methods of approaching people (not a likeable character), I did wonder why Wakefield was acting (IMO) as though he had something to hide? Also why so many eminent people were prepared to publicly speak up "against" him.

Message withdrawn

I don't know Socci - but I think my point is, is the risk of autism any greater than the risk of measles complications? I think that with the information most of us have available it is almost impossible to say. The parents of the little girl who died from brain damage caused by measles would have not thought twice ( I imagine) about having their other children vaccinated. Just as parents of a autistic child who are convinced that the autism was caused by MMR would not think twice about NOT having any other children immunised. I just know that from my point of view, there is a proven risk if measles is contracted, whereas the risk of autism is unproven. It would be interesting to know the statistics - ie. what percentage of children given MMR develop autism, what % of those not immunised contract measles and develop severe complications and what % of children have autism who have NOT been immunised. Has autism increased since the advent of MMR? Would the children who have it, have developed it anyway? I think I read somewhere that autism commonly becomes apparent about the same age that MMR is given (not sure if this is true or not).