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Original poster

DNR help

32 replies

Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 15:06

Please help, I don't know where to turn?

My Dad is poorly, has been for a while but massive decline since Xmas 2020. He has been admitted twice but other than being treated for a chest infection there is nothing else wrong with him, so the Doctors have said.

He was discharged from hospital last week and refused care at home. Since Wednesday we have managed his care between us (partner and 2 Sisters) however, it is clear that there is something very wrong and we cannot manage him.

He has lost half his body weight since February, sleeps 20 hours a day, shakes so much that he cannot hold a cup or knife and fork, will not eat unless practically forcing him to....even then he will have a few mouthfuls and say he is full. He is skin and bone!

He still has a chest infection, that is clear as his chest is very rattly and he is coughing constantly.

We have asked his GP for a home visit on 3 separate occasions and they have been declined up until today where i rang Adult social care who told me to call back and demand a visit. The GP turned up earlier, checked his heart rate, blood pressure and then promptly gave him a DNR to sign! He has signed it but I'm not sure he knows what it was! I'm devastated! I couldn't be there so his partner was there at the time and did not question it.

What makes it worse is that we are burying my Nan tomorrow, I've no idea how we are going to get him to the funeral and now we may lose Dad as well.

Is this normal? I feel like I need to speak to someone about this as how is it right to get a 71 year old man, who was discharged from hospital saying "there is nothing wrong with him" to signing a DNR today.

OP posts:
PiccalilliChilli · 07/06/2021 15:10

Did the GP discuss the DNR with you and your family? If not, you might have reason to complain.

Orf1abc · 07/06/2021 15:10

Have you spoken to the hospital and GP directly (with your father's consent)? Might he be hiding a diagnosis from you?

If there's not more to this, then the care your father has received and I'd be contacting your MP and taking him to A&E until he is admitted.

Original poster
Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 15:11

No, according to his partner the GP discussed it with Dad and he just agreed to sign it! He doesn't know what day of the week it is let alone what a DNR means.

OP posts:
Orf1abc · 07/06/2021 15:12

Also does he have online access to his medical records? They can give you a better idea of what is going on than getting information third hand, again with his permission to look.

Original poster
Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 15:13

I asked that specific question to his Dr when he was in hospital as I felt something was been withheld from us and I was assured this was not the case.

OP posts:
Ravenspeckingearly · 07/06/2021 15:13

Whatever your dad signed it wasn’t a DNAR. DNARs are only signed by Drs, and the decision to sign one is a medical decision. Ideally family are involved and onboard, but the dr makes the decision and signs the form.

SoupDragon · 07/06/2021 15:13

Do you understand exactly what a DNR is? It simply means they will not attempt to re-start the heart through CPR (which is incredibly brutal) or shock. It doesn't mean they won't treat his conditions.

Orf1abc · 07/06/2021 15:14

(Missed half a sentence above - the care your father has received from the GP is atrocious.)

Original poster
Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 15:14

Not aware of online access, so you know how to arrange this?

OP posts:
Original poster
Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 15:16

@SoupDragon no I've no idea what it is really. I wish I had been there as I would have asked more questions. I don't know why they would not resuscitate as according to 2 Dr's there is nothing wrong with him!

OP posts:
Orf1abc · 07/06/2021 15:16

@Trillogy101

Not aware of online access, so you know how to arrange this?
He'll need to sign a form from the GP practice, and they might ask for his ID as well. It's the same system that allows you to order prescriptions online.
Hadalifeonce · 07/06/2021 15:21

If your father had a massive heart attack, a DNR just means they wouldn't try to restart his heart with chest compressions, which at your father's age would be very damaging, if they were to succeed.
Do although there appears to be nothing wrong now, it wouldn't mean he isn't ever going to have a heart attack.

SoupDragon · 07/06/2021 15:22

[quote Trillogy101]@SoupDragon no I've no idea what it is really. I wish I had been there as I would have asked more questions. I don't know why they would not resuscitate as according to 2 Dr's there is nothing wrong with him![/quote]
I didn't understand it until a doctor explained it to me a few months ago WRT my mum - ie they will treat whatever they need to, give antibiotics for infections and all that. They just won't resuscitate in the vent of a cardiac arrest. It makes absolute sense. CPR is really brutal and your poor dad sounds very frail at the moment. It is not a nice thought though .

I realised my post might have come across as somewhat blunt.sorry!

SoupDragon · 07/06/2021 15:23

They haven't written him off is what I'm trying to say!

AndWhat · 07/06/2021 15:23

If it is a DNAR your dad will have kept a copy with him. Our area the paper is purple, it may be different for him, it has all the relevant information on it usually including any diagnosis relevant to the decision.
As above though this is signed by the gp following the review with the patient weighing up the pros and cons.
Does your dad want to be resuscitated? Maybe he didn’t wish to tell you?

Orf1abc · 07/06/2021 15:34

which at your father's age would be very damaging,

He's 71, not 91.

Do although there appears to be nothing wrong now

Have you read the first post? There appears to be a great deal wrong now, with no treatment being offered.

Sorry Trillogy, the DNAR is not the main issue here, it's getting your dad some help before that comes into consideration. Though not as severe as your dad's situation, we've been equally concerned about a family member and ended up at A&E. They identified a heart block and she wasn't allowed to leave the hospital until they fitted a pacemaker, she wasn't safe to leave. We'd been fobbed off by the GP for months.

(Different presentation to your dad, I'm not suggesting he needs a pacemaker!)

AlternativePerspective · 07/06/2021 15:37

OP, DNR stands for “do not resuscitate.” Which essentially means that should your dad go into cardiac arrest they will not attempt to resuscitate him or give him CPR.

TBH, I don’t think that the professionals are honest enough about CPR hence why so many people end up feeling so upset when discussing DNR.

The reality is that CPR is an incredibly brutal process, usually resulting in very bruised ribs at best, broken ribs at worst, and there is also a risk of permanent brain damage if the body is deprived at oxygen for too long.

The decision to sign a DNR is generally in the best interests of the patient. They will still treat him, they just won’t attempt to resuscitate him if he were to suffer a heart attack or cardiac arrest.

I have had CPR and to be honest if a relative of mine was so elderly and frail that they couldn’t do anything for themselves, couldn’t remember anything and had no quality of life I wouldn’t want them resuscitated.

It obviously sounds very harsh to say that, but the question you need to ask is who do you want him resuscitated for? Because he certainly isn’t going to benefit from another few years with the quality of life he currently has, so if his heart were to stop would it not be best to let him go?

Original poster
Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 16:16

Sorry for the delayed response and thank you to everyone who has provided information and been so lovely.

I have just spoken to the Practice Manager at the surgery and, as thought, they cannot tell me anything without his consent. I have arranged to call them tomorrow afternoon after the funeral to see if he will allow me to speak to them to get further information.

I honestly feel there is something he doesn't want us to know. If there is then whatever it is cannot be as bad as not knowing.

I don't have anyone else, other then my Sisters who I can speak to so this is really helpful.

Thank you

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 07/06/2021 16:40

This kind of thing is a tough time, that's for sure. Flowers

BunnyRuddington · 07/06/2021 19:52

I honestly feel there is something he doesn't want us to know. If there is then whatever it is cannot be as bad as not knowing. I think not knowing would be worse for me too Thanks

Has he given any of you a Health POA?

LemonPeonies · 07/06/2021 20:18

Sorry to be blunt but with all due respect at 71 it would be unlikely in the event his heart stopped beating, that it would be possible to restart it at all. Even with otherwise healthy people the stats are only 30% and from this, roughly half of that number would go on to live longer than a year following resuscitation.

Original poster
Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 21:33

@BunnyRuddington no, the Dr did mention this. I need to speak to him in more detail about this but he was in no fit state to talk about anything this afternoon so will try and discuss it after the funeral.

OP posts:
Original poster
Trillogy101 · 07/06/2021 21:36

@LemonPeonies I didn't realise the stats were that low! I feel this should have been discussed in detail with us first instead of the callous way it was mentioned.....especially because the Dr has refused to see him until today.

OP posts:
LemonPeonies · 07/06/2021 22:41

Oh yes they should have gone about it in a better way definitely and at least included you in the conversation. The DRs on my ward always do this. Sorry it was such a shock.

CharlotteRose90 · 07/06/2021 22:45

This is awful. You need to complain more and discuss it further that is not on. My mum is 74 and all hell would break lose if a bloody doctor tried to get her to sign one. Makes me feel sick.

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