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A Strategy to Limit deaths Caused by Covid19 Using Vitamin D Therapy.

33 replies

Bettertobehealthy · 01/10/2020 20:47

In a recent pilot study in a Spanish hospital (Castillo et al, 2020), Aug29th 2020 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/

Covid patients were given 532 mcg of 25hydroxyD3 orally, followed by further doses at three day intervals. Two thirds of a total of 76 randomised patients were treated with VitaminD3 whilst one third of patients were in the placebo group of the trial.(i.e.26)were untreated . All 76 patients concurrently received best practice of other covid treatments. The results were as follows; only 2 percent of the 25hydroxyD3 treated patients needed to go into ICU Astonishingly, 50 per cent of the untreated by Vitamin D patients required treatment in ICU and, unfortunately 8% of those patients died. None of the treated patients died.

We can use this pilot study to propose a safe Vitamin D therapy, that would cost only about £2 to treat each person diagnosed as suffering from Covid 19. If it works, we can expect to save many, many lives as well as preventing the ICU units in our hospitals from becoming over-burdened.
At the very least , it would be worth trying on several thousand people, to either prove or disprove the effect Vitamin D has on the progression of Covid19 to serious illness. Currently, there are many hundreds of thousands of people taking Vitamin D, as a prophylactic against Covid.
By codifying this effort, with people that have been recently diagnosed with Covid, and tracking them, we can verify that the pilot study mentioned above was not simply a statistical fluke. There are hundreds of studies worldwide that have suggested that Vitamin D has beneficial effects. This proposal will take action, to verify that conclusion.

The procedure I suggest is as follows.

  1. Upon receipt of a positive Covid antigen test the name and contact details of the person is used in this suggested trial.
  2. 50 to 70 % of those positive adults , should be offered 10,000 IU ( 250 microgram) Vitamin D3 ( cholecalciferol ) to take orally on a daily basis for at least 14 days. Then to continue with 5,000 IU (125 mcg ) daily for 14 additional days.
  3. Track those that have and have not, taken the oral therapy. Perhaps weekly? Within 4 weeks we should know, if the treated group , have markedly different outcomes.
  4. At the end of 4 weeks, participants could drop to a daily maintenance dose of 400 – 4000 IU per day, which is a perfectly safe dose of this essential micro-nutrient. Many thousands of people are using that dose. By this time, each person will have recovered , or otherwise. 2000 – 4000 IU would be appropriate as a maintenance dose for most.

Some explanatory points.

This trial leads to a cumulative dose of vitamin D over 4 weeks of 210,000 IU; a commonly used loading dose. It has been so used over many years. It is part of standard medical procedure to administer this kind of dose for those found to be deficient in vitamin D. It is not an exceptional or unusual treatment and is perfectly safe for well adults. Children would be expected to use lower doses; dose requirements depends upon weight.

The aim of this therapy, I suggest , is to try to replicate the blood levels of 25hydroxyD3 which would have occurred in the pilot study mentioned above. Taken as a supplement, VitaminD3 ( cholecalciferol) is converted to 25hydroxyD3 ( calcidiol) at the rate of 50% every 24 hours, by an enzymatic reaction in the liver. Within 3 days blood levels of calcidiol will rise rapidly. In the pilot study above, Calcifediol ( i.e.calcidiol) was given orally to maximise the speed of take-up in the blood. Their patients had just arrived in hospital, they needed rapid blood level improvement..

In our trial, by utilising VitaminD3 supplement , the commonly available supplement found on supermarket and pharmacy shelves, as well as online, we have a resource immediately available, well-accepted, and more importantly, usable right now. This suggested strategy of therapy simply uses a higher dose than is commonly used. This dosing level is perfectly safe. Indeed , the 2011 report on Vitamin D issued by the Institute of Medicine , National Academy of Sciences, USA . states that 4000 IU is acceptable as a long term daily supplement and that up to 10,000 IU could be utilised.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046611/

By using cholecalciferol ( VitD3 supplement) we have an additional advantage. Cholecalciferol as well as calcidiol, is used by our cells to activate genes within the nucleus when required. In a naturally sunny environment , cholecalciferol is manufactured in the skin by the action of sunlight and cholecalciferol is therefore always available to the cell whenever a receptor is expressed on its surface. However at our high latitude in the UK, sunlight is weak and UVB radiation is absorbed by the atmosphere during the winter period. Mid-October to Mid-April, sunshine cannot make Vitamin D3 in the skin. We rely on the small amounts found in food. Inevitably our levels decrease, unless we supplement. For this reason, Public Health England suggested that everyone in the UK take a VitD3 supplement over winter at a daily dose rate of 400 IU .They recognise that there is a problem. This suggested strategy I propose here, is simply a development of that recognition. We can use the actions of VitaminD3, on the human body, to fight against Covid. .

It would of course be possible to increase the complexity of this suggested trial. We could establish risk factors, the initial blood level of vitamin D etc. However, additional complexity will result in additional time. We urgently require results. I therefore suggest that we include quite a few thousand people in the trial. However we know that older people are more likely to be more severely affected. We could limit the participants to over 50s for example, if we wish to target the more at risk group.

This suggested trial, would only cost a few thousand pounds and can be done very quickly with the contact data of some of those tested positive. A few administrative personnel, a few desks and distribution of £2 worth of capsules to volunteers willing to try a well-established supplement that could save their lives. Results would start to emerge in a few weeks. Surely it would be well worth it. As stated above, the results in the pilot study were extremely good. i.e.25 times less likely to go into ICU if treated with vitamin D3. Only one person from 50 treated with calcidiol needed ICU , 13 people from the 26 untreated needed ICU

Of course, the standard method to establish whether a therapy is useful is a double- blinded, placebo-controlled, randomised trial. Those kind of trials are fine for drugs, but here we are talking about foods. Vitamin D3 is found in food ; it is a naturally occurring substance and is, in fact, a micro-nutrient. We should not worry too much about safety aspects in a month long trial, many millions of people are already supplementing themselves with this micro-nutrient.

In the body , VitD3 (cholecalciferol) is converted as required to a steroid hormone. It is used to regulate the expression of our genes . Over 2000 genes have vitamin D response elements. That is 10% of our entire genome. We can expect it to have a multitude of effects, one of which is on the immune system.

Those persons that might suffer from hypercalcaemia, should not be enrolled in the trial. That would include any known patients with hyperparathyroidism, sarcoidosis, granulomatosis and cancer or those with Williams syndrome. Hypercalcaemia is the only known toxic effect from overdose of Vitamin D3. Those with the conditions listed above might develop hypercalcaemia if treated with 10,000 IU of vitamin D3. They are very rare conditions. An average person sunbathing in strong sunlight can make 10,000 IU or more of vitamin D3 in their skin in an hour or less.
This suggested trial is simply the equivalent of a short sunbathing session every day for a month in terms of VitaminD3 repletion.

An additional point of interest to the reader may be the cost of VitaminD3 in supplements which is mostly manufactured from sheep's wool. The cost of manufacture is about £5 per gram. The common maximum daily dose over the long term would be about 0.1 milligram per person per day. That is 25 years supply of raw vitamin D manufactured for one person for a cost of only £5. It should not be beyond the scope of an efficient government to organise the safe dilution, packaging and distribution of such a cheap lifesaving nutrient to everyone. Bear in mind, Vitamin D3 is not patentable. Big pharmaceutical companies would not be very interested in establishing a supply chain. Currently, the cost of one years supply , online is about £10 – £20.

The Aug 2020 Spanish study I referenced above was not included in the SACN review of evidence published on 29th June 2020 by NICE.

Those that are currently supplementing with Vitamin D3, may need to consider their dose. Their blood level may already be partway towards the required level. They would probably not need the full 10,000 IU daily. However, those taking only a multi-vitamin will only be receiving 200 – 400 IU ( 5 – 10 mcg ) per day. An extra 10,000 IU (125mcg ) per day would be fine. Here I am talking about those adults that have just been diagnosed with Covid and would be considering going into the suggested trial, thus helping to replicate the pilot trial in Spain mentioned above.

I am hoping that someone with influence sees this, and proposes that action similar to this suggestion is taken. We urgently require something to be done. We here in the UK are in a high latitude country and we have a great deal of Vitamin D deficiency in our population. It is going to worsen all the way until next April, when the sun's higher elevation will once again allow us to make additional vitamin D3 in our skin.

I intend to try and interest people of influence in these facts and the opportunity that this represents for those people at risk. If any of you Mumsnet readers can pass this outline on, wherever you think it useful , please do so.

If anyone is interested, I set out much of the reasons behind this explanation of vitaminD in this older thread. It is a long read , but full of information.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2841497-If-you-are-vitamin-D-deficient-what-have-you-been-prescribed

I have posted quite a bit about Vitamin D on Mumsnet. Search my user name (Bettertobehealthy) or just get back to me if you need any more information.

Best of luck to us all.
BTBH (B.Sc.)

PS. If you read this and consider this post useful and it has drifted way down in the thread, please consider bumping it up so that others may read it.

OP posts:
Chicchicchicchiclana · 01/10/2020 20:51

I think just give everyone the vitamin D and sod the trial! If you're in hospital with Covid you shouldn't be treated as a guinea pig in a drugs trials (that is immoral), given that vitamin D isn't going to harm you. I think the statistics already speak for themselves.

Bettertobehealthy · 01/10/2020 21:09

I agree that we need to be replete in Vitamin D , to have a better chance. However , unless and until it is proved that Vitamin D is helpful, and accepted by the medical profession, then most people won't be offered sufficient Vitamin D. Only the enlightened few will be lucky enough. Current advice with regards to Vitamin D supplement dosing regime needs to be updated.
A few days ago , Matt Hancock, in parliament , said that there was not sufficient proof. That was following an urgent review of the evidence by SACN . We need to give it to him. A trial as I have suggested should do the trick. !

OP posts:
Chicchicchicchiclana · 01/10/2020 21:13

Matt Hancock needs to watch a few of your YouTube videos (if you are who I think you are).

Fluffycloudland77 · 01/10/2020 21:15

I read something similar at the start of lockdown and upped dhs vit d.

I added vit k too as I believe it’s essential if you take vit d orally?.

Bettertobehealthy · 01/10/2020 21:22

LOL... No I am not Dr. John Campbell. I do very much agree with him, re: vitamin D. I have been posting on here for over 5 years with the same message.
For those that are unaware have a look at his latest YouTube video, an excellent explanation of why Vitamin D is of critical importance.

OP posts:
lljkk · 01/10/2020 21:22

Too much vitamin D can be harmful.

Good luck with your grant bid to run the randomised trial, OP.

Bettertobehealthy · 01/10/2020 21:54

@lljkk Yes, I agree too much Vitamin D can be harmful, as can too much of anything you would care to name. why on earth would you take too much. ?

                     <strong>edited by MNHQ at OP's request</strong> In the medical literature, Vitamin D  toxicity ( hypercalcaemia )   has only ever been seen when dose levels exceed 30,000 IU  per day  or blood levels exceed 500 nmol/ L  .      10,000 IU  per day  or less, should be perfectly fine for the overwhelming majority.  Probably about  3000 - to 4000 IU , should be adequate to maintain a healthy blood level in  most adults.                          Those that are hypersensitive, such a those with hyperparathyroidism,  sarcoidosis, granulomatosis, some  cancer or Williams syndrome should obviously be more careful, and only take vitamin D  under medical supervision.   These conditions are rare. 

Vitamin D will NOT cause hypercalcaemia, unless blood levels exceed 500 nmol/l . Which would arise from a massive overdose.

There are other causes of hypercalcaemia, such as high parathyroid hormone, due to adenoma on the parathyroid gland/s*

OP posts:
lljkk · 01/10/2020 22:01

I was responding to PP who wrote "vitamin D isn't going to harm you"

You don't want a randomised trial do you, OP?

Who do you think "people of influence" are, why would they be able to make your experiment happen? Someone like Bill Gates, maybe?

RealityExistsInTheHumanMind · 01/10/2020 22:08

I've been taking vit D3 (and K2) for about 5 years now - I've not even had a cold in that time. Managed to get my sister taking it a couple of years ago - and finally this year(!) got the rest of the family on it.

@lljkk have you even read the link you have posted. Side effect of vit D are incredibly rare. In the article posted the woman took the equivalent of 186,900 IU of vitamin D3 per day for two months. So more than 46 of the strongest available gel capsules DAILY.

up to 10,000iu daily have never caused problems for anyone.

Taking 2 or even 3 a day of those capsules is never going to reach anything like those levels. I take 2 daily from October to April and 1 daily in summer. I don't take them on summer days when I have been out in the sun.

RealityExistsInTheHumanMind · 01/10/2020 22:11

@lljkk

I was responding to PP who wrote "vitamin D isn't going to harm you"

You don't want a randomised trial do you, OP?

Who do you think "people of influence" are, why would they be able to make your experiment happen? Someone like Bill Gates, maybe?

Water isn't going to harm you either - unless you take a massive overdose.

FFS Paracetamol can cause problems if you took 12 in one go. Of course absolutely everything is harmful in excess - so NO D3 in any but stupid levels of overdose isn't going to harm you.

bestbefore · 01/10/2020 22:19

Can I ask about how much vit d to take?
I bought this "Vitamin D 4000iu - 400 Premium Vitamin D3 Easy-Swallow Micro Tablets - One a Day High Strength Cholecalciferol VIT D3 - Vegetarian Supplement" but the dose perhaps seems quite high? We have some other tablets which are a quarter of this amount and also marked as daily dose Confused
I am - clearly - not an expert so any help appreciated!

NickMyLipple · 01/10/2020 22:28

Is there any evidence to suggest taking it as prophylaxis is working? Or has it only been trialled in patients with active infections.

Bettertobehealthy · 01/10/2020 22:36

@Fluffycloudland77

     Strictly speaking .it is not essential to take vitamin K2 if you take vitamin D orally.    You are probably talking about  K2 ,  which  is different from  K  , which is sometimes known as K1
   IF your body is short of vitamin K2 , then obviously it makes sense to rectify the situation.  K2 is  a bacterial product which should be made from Vitamin K1 , found in large quantities in green leafy veg. K2 is made in the gut , by gut bacteria.  If for any reason that system is not working , intestinal problems or even avoidance of  sufficient green foods ,   then yes supplemental K2 could be beneficial. 

The action of K2 , is that it enables certain proteins to be activated, such that they carry calcium to the desired location in the body. Hence hopefully preventing deposition in arteries etc. 

    There is a common misconception that Vitamin D supplementation causes more Calcium in the blood.   This is not correct.  Sufficient Vitamin D allows your body to regulate up or down ,  the amount of calcium you absorb from your food.  Vitamin D allows you to absorb just the right amount of calcium from your food.  The parathyroid hormone PTH ,  adjusts the vitamin D hormone concentration in the blood,by contolling  hydroxylation of Vitamin D 

in the kidney, in order that your gut cells absorb calcium. Unwanted calcium passes right through. IF your vitamin D level is too low , then you might not be able to absorb enough calcium from your food. A blood level of vitamin D of about 80 nmol/l and above enables the most efficient regulation of calcium levels. Other benefits are evident when Vitamin D levels are above 100 nmol/l .

Taking K2   can be helpful , as can additional magnesium ,   again ,  IF  you are short of that mineral.
OP posts:
lljkk · 02/10/2020 07:19

I'm still wondering who OP thinks are "people of influence". And how they would achieve what OP wants.

picklemewalnuts · 02/10/2020 07:53

Sounds like a sensible plan to me.

Who needs to kick this off? Presumably medics heading up the treatment protocols in hospitals only influence the treatment of their patients.

Is it an NHS england thing, the CCG, Nice?

SparklingLime · 02/10/2020 08:11

Thank you for your tireless reminders on this, @Bettertobehealthy. It’s very helpful.
You could try contacting Prof Trisha Greenhaulgh.

A Strategy to Limit deaths Caused by Covid19 Using Vitamin D Therapy.
LongHotSummerJustPassedMeBy · 02/10/2020 08:14

Yes, thank you for this.

lljkk · 02/10/2020 12:47

would only cost a few thousand pounds

Dictionary definition of "few" = 2 or 3.
So you're gonna crowd source £3000 and offer it to Trish Greenhalgh to run the experiment?

Let us know how that goes.

picklemewalnuts · 02/10/2020 13:03

Slightly off topic, I've just received a vit d 'shot' in a HelloFresh box. I'm so glad it comes in tablet form, the shot was vile! Orange juice turmeric and ginger, so hot I nearly choked!

SparklingLime · 02/10/2020 20:55

Your posts sound very resentful and unpleasant, @lljkk. I can’t see what is upsetting about this?

CountFosco · 02/10/2020 21:54

The NHS recommends a daily supplement of 10ug or 400 IU for everyone over the age of 4. It says no-one should take more than 100yg or 4000 IU. I suspect that higher levels of supplements will cost more but will just be peed away.

BameChange123 · 03/10/2020 04:43

I didn't realise Vit D can be produced from sheep wool!

Is there a vegetarian / vegan alternative? ( asking for a friend!). I will definitely up my dose. Last winter my VItD test levels showed i was at 40% and I consider.myself an outdoor person, they certainly perked me up.

What about doing a Crowdfunder (with social media to raise profile) and maybe get a suitable celeb to endorse it, a bit like the football player (Markus Rashford?) who recently campaigned for children's FSM - he got some traction from the Government didn't he?. Maybe Aleesha Dixon or Alexandra Burke? This Vitamin D issue may also disproportionately affect people from BAME backgrounds so you might be able to try that angle? Thank you for reminding me to buy some more Vitamin D and K2

BestIsWest · 03/10/2020 11:38

OP what’s your opinion of the sun lamps that claim to help with Vitamin D.
I struggle with my vit D levels and suspect it has dropped again. I take supplements but I’m wondering if one of these would help.

Bettertobehealthy · 07/10/2020 19:36

@bestbefore
' Can I ask about how much vit d to take? I bought this "Vitamin D 4000iu - 400 Premium Vitamin D3 Easy-Swallow Micro Tablets - One a Day High Strength Cholecalciferol VIT D3 '

Yes, 4000 IU daily is OK . It should, for an average person, put your Vitamin D blood level up by about an extra 100 nmol/l. Mostly, the NHS has a level of 50 – 200 nmol/l as within the normal acceptable range. If your blood level started at about 50 nmol/l , that's about average in the UK, then you should be fine.

The fact that there are many suggested daily doses, from 400 IU up to 4000 IU is because there is no common agreement, as to the best or optimal blood level of Vitamin D , (that is 25hydroxyD3, i.e calcidiol ). Have a look at that other Mumsnet thread , I posted in my first post on this thread. My posts therein try to explain.

@RealityExistsInTheHumanMind – I agree with your sentiment !
@SparklingLime - am sending emails left and right. ! Thanks for your input.

@BameChange123 Yes, you can get vegan Vit D3. It originates from certain algae, or lichen. Available at places like Amazon etc.
You can also find Vit D2, (ergocalciferol) a plant or mushroom based alternative, although research has shown it is not quite as effective as Vit D3(cholecalciferol) the mammalian form which is found in almost all supplements nowadays.
You are right about higher risk for BAME persons. Have a look here 'Vitamin D, Large scale studies.' It's a further video from Dr. John Campbell showing study after study confirming this.

OP posts:
VitreousHumour · 07/10/2020 19:44

@bettertobehealthy, what do you think of the evidence for zinc's impact?

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