Coronavirus quarantine and work

[VocalDuck]

Posting in here for traffic really.

I got back from Italy at the weekend (in the north, but not a town that is quarantined or any current cases of coronavirus).

Following the advice on the news to self isolate, I asked my GP surgery as the town I was in (near Verona) wasn’t mentioned and was told to stay home for 14 days. However, whilst work support me staying home they are looking into whether it will be unpaid leave or not. There is little I can do to wfh and their current view is that I’m not ill, so it’s not sick leave. I don’t have enough annual leave left to take (and have handed in my notice so can’t even borrow leave or work overtime to build up hours once back).

I just wondered if anyone was experiencing the same and what their employers stance had been? I’m trying to get hold of ACAS so I’ve got as much info as possible for when my HR calls me back.

I suppose my AIBU is I feel it should be paid although I do appreciate I am well yet not working. However, it’s not like I can go out and do anything sociable or fun.

I’m hoping they were just caught off guard (this is probably fairly unprecedented in some respects) and after having a think and chat, will agree to pay. Although I wonder if they are worrying about large numbers of employees ending up in quarantine and the financial implications of paying them all.

YABU = unpaid
YANBU = paid

I think it's ridiculous and possibly dangerous to be encouraging people to take medical advice from strangers on the internet rather than their GP.

We have no idea what specifics of her case OPs GP is privy to that we are not.

Many people are not going to be able to self-isolate if not paid. It's stupid advice.

If the medical advice is to self-isolate then an employer has the legal right to send you home regardless of whether you are entitled to sick pay or not.

My parents are in Hong Kong and the govt has a huge fund to support industry affected by the lockdown. The UK govt needs to do the same if that's the advice. Companies can't afford the staff and the staff can't afford to not earn. Even with the rescue package, a lot of businesses are laying off staff or closing as they just can't afford to run anymore. The problem of the virus isn't it killing people. Hong Kong has 89 confirmed cases and 2 deaths (population of 7 million). But it's the knock on economic effect. Everything is closed, including schools, no one is going out and spending. Tourist numbers has dropped to almost non-existent.

If companies don't pay then we risk people going in to work with the virus.

I think this is one place where the government needs to step in and pay where companies can't afford it.

UCAS state "But it's good practice for their employer to treat it as sick leave and follow their usual sick pay policy or agree for the time to be taken as holiday. Otherwise there's a risk the employee will come to work because they want to get paid. They could then spread the virus, if they have it."

Literally had this conversation with my DH last night. I think employers really need to be thinking seriously about this as I can see more and more people needing to self isolate! Whether that's considering more wfh requests, allowing paid leave or allowing it as paid sickness. There's not a lot of people out there who can manage with a 2 week salary deduction when they aren't even unwell!

Employers due have a duty of care to other employees. If people go in against medical advice and others get infected I wonder if this would have any consequences or the employee and/or employer. I can imagine that if somebody dies their relatives could try to sue.

I also think the state should pay as they are the ones imposing the quarantine/self isolation, a bit like how they pay if you have to do jury service, so similar to that really

Except the state doesn't pay for jury service. Expenses, yes. Subsistence, yes. But not any lost wages. Don't expect childcare costs either. Many employers will cover the cost, but that's not mandatory.

The courts do pay loss of earnings for jury service. It's capped at something like £65 a day but they do pay it.

The courts do pay loss of earnings for jury service. It's capped at something like £65 a day but they do pay it.

If it's capped, it's just a gesture, and they don't pay for loss of earnings. ask anyone on (say) £500 a day. And my point about childcare stands. Some people - mainly and especially women - find themselves paying to serve on a jury.

Actually childcare is slightly different. They will pay for any childcare as long as it's not normally needed. So if you work and normally pay for childcare then they won't pay it. However if you were a stay at home parent and don't use childcare they will pay up to £65 a day for it. However they still won't pay more than £65 a day for loss or earnings and childcare combined :)

FWIW £65 a day is well below my earnings so it wouldn't be a true "loss of earnings" for me either!

I suggested the government pay like they do for jury service as this would help those who had no hope of being paid by their employers, zero hours, most minimum wage jobs etc. One would hope that anyone in a decent salaried job would have the difference made up by their employers, no doubt we will find out in the not so distant future. Obviously this would not be so good for some self employed either

GP is advice only. If they won't issue a sick line its up to work to make the decision.Call works bluff and say if you aren't getting paid you'll come in to work.

YABU for not following government guidelines and for phoning GP (Coronavirus queries are not to go to GP in England, only Scotland).

In these circumstances, I don’t think you should be paid,

However, if you were coming back from a country / area where you are to self isolate for 14 days, or the other band of countries where you self isolate if symptomatic, then you should be paid.

But it will be deleterious to the economy for the worried well to chose to self isolate in the face of government guidelines

I think the way the OP has behaved explains why the government and employers are going to be reluctant to pay for cases where people ignore the very well publicised advice. Otherwise a lot of people will be seeking 2 weeks unpaid leave.

It would be nice to think more discretion could be offered but this explains why. The advice is calibrated to avoid problems like this for workers, employers and the state.

Next we’ll have people with cold who a) have never been to affected countries, or b) have had no contact with someone with covid-19 self isolating and wanting to be paid

Next we’ll have people with cold who a) have never been to affected countries, or b) have had no contact with someone with covid-19 self isolating and wanting to be paid

actually.. that's tempting...

Minimum should be statutory sick pay surely. Your gp will provide a note for your absence. What would your usual sick pay policy be if you were off ill for 2 weeks?

I think the government needs to develop some robust policies (and communicate them to the general public) asap.

TBQH in this day and age many with office jobs could work easily from home!

I think people need to be paid for quarantine periods, otherwise there will be people out there who will go to work anyway because they simply can't afford to lose 2 weeks pay. Maybe the government needs to be compensating employers somehow?

Spoke to the GP (different one from before) and whilst I didn’t say a load of randomers online had questioned her partner’s judgement, I did say I had seen other advice and wanted to clarify. She went through a thorough checklist with me, confirmed she agreed with the other doctor at the surgery and has signed me off.

I’m sorry to those who think I’ve been unreasonable but I was following advice - the airline told us to contact our doctors about the situation, I did this and took my GP’s advice. I spoke to my employer and asked them their take on it and they told me they supported what the GP had said. I spoke to 111 who backed my GP and I have spoken to a second GP. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’m sorry to those who feel their knowledge on the matter is greater than those listed and that they are all in the wrong, but I am going to follow all of their advice.

Then why ask random strangers on the internet?

What was on the checklist? If you have no symptoms and the only concern is that you have been to the North of Italy I can't imagine the checklist was beneficial, what did it ask?!

Then why ask random strangers on the internet?

The OP asked whether posters felt she should be paid or not.

She wasn't asking whether she should be self-isolating at all. A lot of posters just jumped in and started giving her the benefit of their professional medical opinions