Coronavirus quarantine and work

[VocalDuck]

Posting in here for traffic really.

I got back from Italy at the weekend (in the north, but not a town that is quarantined or any current cases of coronavirus).

Following the advice on the news to self isolate, I asked my GP surgery as the town I was in (near Verona) wasn’t mentioned and was told to stay home for 14 days. However, whilst work support me staying home they are looking into whether it will be unpaid leave or not. There is little I can do to wfh and their current view is that I’m not ill, so it’s not sick leave. I don’t have enough annual leave left to take (and have handed in my notice so can’t even borrow leave or work overtime to build up hours once back).

I just wondered if anyone was experiencing the same and what their employers stance had been? I’m trying to get hold of ACAS so I’ve got as much info as possible for when my HR calls me back.

I suppose my AIBU is I feel it should be paid although I do appreciate I am well yet not working. However, it’s not like I can go out and do anything sociable or fun.

I’m hoping they were just caught off guard (this is probably fairly unprecedented in some respects) and after having a think and chat, will agree to pay. Although I wonder if they are worrying about large numbers of employees ending up in quarantine and the financial implications of paying them all.

YABU = unpaid
YANBU = paid

If that's the case, then show your employer the government advice and tell them you're coming in. The current advice is here - www.gov.uk/guidance/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-information-for-the-public

ACAS

ACAS information on Coronavirus for employers and employees

Ah I see it’s from 19/02. Thank you for sharing the link HoneyBee

VocalDuck, it might be worth trying to call their bluff, phone in and say you're considering going in tomorrow as you can't afford not to be paid and don't have any symptons (current guidelines).

Your work are "supporting" you self quarantining but not insisting you do?

If that's the case then I wouldn't expect to be paid.

I'm in a similar position - just back from Northern Italy, but not one of the lockdown cities.

I've just had a telephone appointment with my GP for an unrelated matter and asked about self-isolation etc as there was a lot of uncertainty at work yesterday.

She reiterated the official advice -
Self isolate if you've been to the affected areas
Self isolate if you've been to wider regions of N Italy AND exhibit symptoms.

No symptoms, so I'm back to work as normal.

How can people keep saying that their employer should pay? It's just not possible for some companies to do this, as worrying as it is.

I think YANBU expecting to be paid, but don't hold your breath. There hasn't been much in the news about how smaller businesses are going to be able to afford undisclosed amounts of sick pay if the virus really does hit hard here and thousands of workers are off for 14 days. Government will have to step in but I've heard nothing about this.

But on the basis of what's been official government/DOH advice so far, you shouldn't need to self-isolate for 14 days because you weren't from the areas of high infection. If you came back from north of Pisa but not the infected areas, and you show no symptoms then you're ok. If you came back from that area and do show symptoms then you self-isolate, and if you came from the high risk towns then you self-isolate regardless of symptoms. Your GP has got this wrong. It might change in the next few days but on this basis, you can't really expect your employers to support this sick leave.

I'd still be pissed off though!

Sorry - just saw that your employer agrees that you should self-isolate. Well, as long as they realise that this is against current guidelines, in that case they should be prepared to pay for you to do so.

I think if the employer wants you to self-isolate they should pay and to be honest, if they let possibly affected employees in and help the spread of the virus then it's going to affect them far worse in the long run (when all their other employees go off sick).

This is the critical period for stemming the spread of this - your employer would be wise to pay you. If they're a big company they can probably afford it, if not, the government should be helping them (again the costs to the government now for doing this will be FAR FAR FAR smaller than if there's a massive outbreak).

It's a shame you can't work from home though.

If you were to follow current govt advice to the letter, as set out, you DO NOT need to self-isolate and you're fine to go into work. However if your employer wants you to / insists that you self-isolate, then it's only right that they pay you.

Oh and well done OP for really thinking about this and putting other people first, because that's what you're doing here. There is no benefit to you of staying home at all as far as I can see (since you either have it or you don't at this point).

If the travel was work related, I would expect to be paid.

If it wasn't, then no.

It's a difficult when you're in your notice period, I doubt they will make much effort to be honest.

If you’re following public health guidelines then you should be paid. If you’re being extra cautious and self isolating when it’s not required then I would say it should be unpaid.

I do appreciate it’s hard for small businesses but not many people can afford 2 weeks unpaid leave when they’re perfectly healthy. I would agree that the state should pay as it’s their guidelines and for public safety. But at full pay not SSP equivalent. As a single person who is solely responsible for all my rent and bills, I can’t survive on anything less than full pay, I’m on less than the national average wage so not a high earner, I need every £!

Your employer should pay you under their existing sick leave policy.

You're staying home on medical advice (whether or not posters on MN agree with that advice ).

Current ACAS advice is:

^"There's no legal obligation for an employer to pay someone who is not sick but cannot work as they have been told by a medical expert to self-isolate or have had to go into quarantine.

Acas’s advice is that it's good practice for an employer in this situation to treat it as sick leave and follow their usual sick leave policy or offer the employee the option to take the period as paid annual leave. This can help to reduce the risk that a staff member may feel compelled to come into work and could spread the virus if they have it."^

www.acas.org.uk/acas-publishes-new-advice-on-handling-coronavirus-at-work

Given the conditions you describe government guidelines are that you don't need to self isolate. If work don't want you in, against PHE guidelines, it is their ignorance that is depriving themselves of a member of staff and they should pay you.

You are being unreasonable because you Didn’t call 111 as advised. You don’t fall into the category of needing to self isolate. This has been on the news and is on websites. Most people have told you on here.

Call 111 and get updated advice and then speak to your employer.

111 supports my GP. I’m waiting for a phone call back from my GP.

Yes, 111 will support your gp as they are not medically trained and just follow a script
Up to you if you follow national guidelines or not on this. There's no harm in self isolating, apart from to your paypacket. If you explain that to your gp (who is on a large salary and probably wasn't thinking it would impact your finances when they gave advice that contradicted national guidelines) then they will probably say just follow national guidelines
Imagine how busy those poor gps are with all these calls!!

Why have you got two threads OP. Did you not like the advice on the first one?

You are choosing to be cautious. Your employer does not have to pay you.

I also think the state should pay as they are the ones imposing the quarantine/self isolation, a bit like how they pay if you have to do jury service, so similar to that really

that!

As you weren't in the locked-down towns, I would just tell your employer that you're going to come in for work. If they are so concerned, surely they will then need to send you home on full pay.