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Is it possible to 'kick' depression for good?

93 replies

MUMINAMILLION · 15/09/2004 08:59

Was going to change my name, because I dont tell anyone I suffer from depression, infact most people remark on the fact that I am always smiling! But, its time to be honest now. I have suffered on and off with depression for the last 11 years and as a result have been on and off prozac in that time. PND was horrendous too. Yest I went to the doc with a completely unrelated problem, and had total hysterics in the office!! He was very good, talked to me for ages (before putting me BACK on prozac!). He also gave me a book to read - 'Good Mood' by Julian Simon. I was wondering if anyone had read this book and did it help? Or has anyone used any other method and has managed to conquer depression once and for all? Need some hope - need to know that Im not going to be like this for the rest of my life, please.

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MUMINAMILLION · 15/09/2004 11:47

Sophable, do agree with you too. Im not sure whether it is the pressures of outside that make me depressed or whether it is the depression which makes me unable to cope with the outside pressures though. Depression seems to be so prevalent these days and that has to be something to do with our mad lifestyles. Doesnt help anyhow. Then again, are we more depressed these days than in previous times or is it just more talked-about (by some) and more publicised?

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iota · 15/09/2004 11:51

all about lithium here

my mother gets the shakey hands

Kayleigh · 15/09/2004 11:56

thanks iota. My mum doesn't get shaky hands. I don't think she suffers with any of those symptoms .

I agree depression seems more prevelant these days but I do think in the past people just didn't own up to being depressed or being treated for depression. Like i said before, a definite taboo.

MUMINAMILLION · 15/09/2004 12:03

Still is to a certain extent Kayleigh. I feel I cant own up to it as I have to show myself as being a confident, successful mother/woman/wife/housekeeper/businesswoman etc etc etc. The more I think about it Sophable has made a really good point.

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Heathcliffscathy · 15/09/2004 12:27

buy buy buy, get the house the car the supermarket shop, make sure everyone thinks your succeeding, and definitely don't let on that you might be a loser (admit to not coping, not buy into this society's really f8cked up values).

be a mother (all giving all nurturing, never tired, never fed up, never hate your child, never hate yourself, but thin cause you didn't let yourself go during pregnancy and immaculately presented cuase it's not gettin on top of you)

be a lover (sexy, wanton, relaxed, full of energy, anything goes, young, thin)

be a wife (understanding, supportive, grateful for any small help you get beyond belief, sexy in the bedroom, genius in the kitchen, young, thin)

be a friend (funny, smiling, wry, never falling apart, never feeling anti-social, never wanting to hide under the duvet and never see anyone again)

be a career woman (motherhood not enough, it's a cop out so you gotta go for a career too, don't complain that you earn less than your male counterparts, don't ever admit to being needed by your family, in fact make like a man and you'll go far, oh, and be thin as there's nothing worse than a fat woman in the board room)

be a daughter (look after your mother, as well as your husband/partner/children/friends)

don't be selfish (say no, say you need some time/space/help, say you can't do that you haven't got the energy)

this is life isn't it? it's one side of it, but we expect this of ourselves don't we?

of course we break down, of course we cry (too much, hysterical woman, silly little girl), of course we shout and scream (you're pre-menstrual love, time of the month? you're so irrational)

then our kids grow up and we're a pain in the arse, we're too this, not enough that, it was all our fault that our children failed, can't get a relationship etc.

then we get the menopause after which we're not allowed to be in any way sexual (urgh gross out) and we're past it

germaine greer (her latest stuff) is really good on all this.

MUMINAMILLION · 15/09/2004 13:01

Good grief - so true. Wish my girls were boys!!

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solange · 15/09/2004 13:34

So true Sophable.

I have also ben thinking about starting a "depression" post recently as well, but there seem to be some mners who are more depressed than me and more deserving of people's time and energy, so I haven't bothered. I have tried various things half-heartedly, but nothin seems to be sticking.

I can relate to so much of what is in these posts, it's scary. It's also scary how many mners are suffering from depression or have done in the past.

Maybe we could have a new depression board where we can all try to really support each other and help each other get through these times and find solutions.

Kayleigh · 15/09/2004 13:37

blimey sophable, you are so right.

Papillon · 15/09/2004 13:39

hi muminamillion
Want to add support to what sophable has been saying. I was thinking just the same thing this morning. And thought about posting then thought - oh they will just think it is paps being all off the wall again!

Glad that you posted to because I think we all sometimes procrastinate about what we have said etc on MN. But we are a big family and there are people here that want to help - which is such a beautiful thing. Also just to add that some things may not ever go away but with abit of support, knowledge and work as moodyme said... it is possible to come to terms ourselves and our feelings

Take care

moniker · 15/09/2004 15:10

Hi again - just catching up. I just wanted to say that I feel so much better having seen this thread today. On my way in to work this morning I really was thinking about starting a thread about all this so seeing this thread has felt like a very positive sign!

MIM - I have replied to your email now - thank for gettting in touch. I feel so much more positive now!

Could we/should we ask for a 'depression' board where we could support each other and look at all the various treatments/options etc? There do seem to be quite a few of us feeling the same way.

Take care everyone. xxx

solange · 15/09/2004 15:19

moniker, I just suggested that. I think it would work.

MUMINAMILLION · 15/09/2004 15:49

Thanks Papillon, really appreciate your thoughts.

A depression board sounds like a great idea! How does that work and how can it be set up? Im sure too that there are loads of others out there that would be interested in this and it could really provide just the right support for someone at the right time - constant helpline so to speak.

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mummytosteven · 15/09/2004 16:09

Hi everyone, been looking at this with interest, and only now have the chance to respond, by which time of course, the topic of conversation all starts to change. Thanks for starting up this thread MIAM. I had also been vaguely thinking it would be a good idea to set up a thread/board relating to depression and to extend it to other mental health issues - such as self-harm, eating disorders, anxiety disorders, schizo-affective disorders, bipolar disorder; there seem to be a lot of posters lately experiencing depression and anxiety, and I think body image problems tend to crop up a bit as well. I think there has been a bit of a domino effect (rather than a downness epidemic!) in that once a few people speak out, and get supporting and "me too" responses, a lot of other people have felt comfortable posting. In terms of setting up a board, I guess the easiest thing is just to e-mail MN and request a new topic for body and soul, and take things from there.

ghengis · 15/09/2004 16:14

I have been 'suffering from' depression since October 2001, 10 months after DD was born though not considered PND. It is a cruel, shitty illness and I HATE it with a vengeance. I hate the effect it has on my family. I do not feel like I have any friends anymore, apart from those I have known since childhood, due to this bl**dy illnes.

My mind has been poked and prodded by doctors, counsellors, psychiatrists and I am sick of the lot of it. So I take my ADs like a good girl and do my best to smile and perform and hope I am convincing enough. Only DH and my sister know how I really feel.

I have learned a lot over the past 3 years - exercise, a healthy diet (try not to eat processed food) and fresh air are the best 'tonic'. Yoga and meditation also help.

One day I hope to feel consistently well but I am no longer letting it rule my life. I need to feel like I am in control again so I do what I can and try to recognise that the days when I need to stop and allow my body and mind to take a breather. Then I get up and get on with life again.

moniker · 15/09/2004 16:16

Sorry solange - I was following on from your suggestion and meant to say that! It's a great idea!

mummytosteven · 15/09/2004 16:37

moodyme - i would regard depression as being analogous to high blood pressure - that it is a physical illness, but that there are things other than medication that can help - e.g with high blood pressure, cutting out salt, reducing stress levels, with depression, regular sleep, regular meals, regular exercise etc, and that for some people, medication is unnecessary. i think the problem with regarding depression as being under your control is that it implies that you can just pull yourself together, and it is just a case of mind over matter - whereas it isn't as simple as that.

kizzie · 15/09/2004 17:02

Hello MIM- Im another one who is glad you started this thread.
I have posted so much about PND and depression and havent actually posted for a while because felt guilty that i was taking up too much of the board with my 'problem'.

I had PND - recovered - but then went dramatically downhill when I came off seroxat. Im still trying to get over this and come to terms with it. Am now taking an old fashioed drug but may be switching to cipralex.

I think in my case my depression is caused by a variety of factors but I do think hormone changes are critical.

I never suffered from depression/ panic attacks until I had PND following IVF. My PMT is also now horrendous.

I do agree however with all the others who say that modern day life has a massive effect.

I hate depression. It makes me so angry to think that my life (and my family) have been affected by this. I have a successful career which has finally been affected by my depression after 5 years of keeping going, wonderful children and a lovely husband. Im another one who doesn't have a 'reason' to be depressed.

Im trying really hard to try and come to terms with this because I know that many people face terrible illness - but I think depression really is very difficult to cope with.

It absolutely terrifies me to read things like bumblelions story because Im so scared of the same thing happening to me and my family. But Im really.

Anyway - sorry rambled on long enough.

i really hope the book helps MIM.
Kizziex

susanmt · 15/09/2004 17:16

Hi MIM, I'm another 'serial depressive' (what my psychiatrist calls it). I've been depressed since I was about 14, so 20 years. I've had good periods and bad periods but it always seems to come back. I've been in hospital, had ECT, had 3 lots of PND, the first one of which landed me in a mother and baby unit, and I think it is something to which I will always be prone, tbh.

I was feeling like you a few weeks ago, feeling like I didn't want my life to always be like this, when I read an article in the Guardian, which I will paste in below, as it is something I think everyone should read. The chap who writes this colum is a serious depressive, and this is the colum in which he realises that, for the sake of his children, he will probably always be on antidepressants.

I don't want my daughters to be posting on Mumsnet in 25 years about their nutty Mum who wont take her tablets and thinks she can cope. I know its not really what you are looking for in a reply, but I have decided that if I take Lustral for the rest of my life, it will be worth it, if it keeps me well. My brother is diabetic and will have to have insulin injected every day for the rest of his life, that's life. I have to accept that the physical illness that is depression is just the same. But I know its not easy.

Blue Notes - Nick Johnstone (Guardian 20/7/04)

The night my daughter was born, I felt so happy I wanted to throw my antidepressants out of the hospital window. Euphoric, up for a day and a bit without a wink of sleep, I was resolute. No more taking pills. No more covering crying eyes with embarrassed hands. No more Sunday evenings feeling blue. For this little person, I wanted to slip a skin, casually abandon the sickly part of myself the way people leave umbrellas and half-read paperbacks in the backs of taxis.
But then, her first night home, holding her in my arms, the two of us watching the sun rise, her beautiful blue unblinking eyes staring into mine, I knew I already loved her far too much to ever drag her into one of my reckless anti-depressant experiments. I'm done with being reckless. Sometime during my wife's labour at hospital, I found myself thinking about the day I stopped drinking. I turned up at my GP's surgery with symptoms of internal bleeding. He told me to hurry to the nearest accident and emergency ward. "Don't, whatever you do, drive yourself. The bleeding could become quite profuse and you might black out." I'd explained that I had driven myself to see him. He made me promise that I'd get my mother to take me to hospital.

Out in the car park, I didn't think twice about getting into my car. All the way there, drifting in and out of consciousness, biting my arm to stay awake, I was face to face with depression in its purest, most evil form.

Almost 10 years later, once more in hospital, this time for the birth of my daughter, not the rebirth of me, I closed my eyes, prayed that I would never do anything that reckless again. I know that side of me is always lurking, though. The temptation to turn everything upside down is one of my oldest self-destructive impulses. It usually rises when I'm too happy. Happiness scares me. I start feeling giddy, like a tightrope walker, painfully aware that there's only one way to go. Down. Afraid of the inevitable plunge, I usually take a premature tumble.

Yesterday afternoon, bathing my daughter, it dawned on me that I will probably never be able to come off antidepressants. It wasn't a moment of resignation. It was a happy moment of self-acceptance. I want to be the best father possible and to do that, I need papa's little helper, a pink baguette-shaped pill, taken once a day, after dinner. I don't want to be an absent dad, unreachable in my morbid igloo. I want to be there for her, forever and always.

There's a reality here, though. Who am I kidding? I have an illness that will always need containing. The other day I was reading a Maira Kalman book to her, when it hit me that one day I will die, I won't be here for her. The thought was unbearable. I started trembling, on came the black sweep of a teeth-chattering panic attack. Then I thought of losing my own parents. That did it. I put down the book, hit the carpet, hammered shakily through 200 sit-ups, mentally repeating, "This too will pass."

After the attack passed, I sat cuddling her, trying to explain what had just happened. I was mid-sentence when she reached a tiny hand up and touched me on the nose. Hush, dad. Don't risk coming off antidepressants and turning into a basket case again. Let things be. Stop giving yourself such a hard time. I love you.

I hope she'll grow up untouched by this stuff. I learned recently that there are three suicides in my family tree. We're a screwy bunch. A shooting, a drowning and a hanging: all at roughly the same time, 100 years ago. Did these genes lie dormant for a century and resurface with me?

The cards appear to be marked; I suppose I'm meant to be family suicide number four. No way, gene genie. I'll keep fighting this until they cart my bones off. If that means 1,000 sit-ups a week (for good measure, I've now added 500 ab crunches too), four pilates workouts, yoga, meditation, chanting, lavender oil baths, mood-pepping nocturnal chocolate binges, daily supplements of zinc, magnesium, valerian root and God knows what else, then so be it. To paraphrase Nietzsche, that which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger. Staying on top of depression, anxiety and panic attacks is hard work and like all hard work, it has its beautiful rewards. Last night, shortly after taking my habitual 75mg dose of Efexor XL, I was changing my daughter's nappy when she smiled at me. When I'm a hundred years old, white-haired and toothless, I plan to still be seeing that smile.

ghengis · 15/09/2004 18:30

Thank you for that Susanmt.

mummytosteven · 15/09/2004 18:42

Thanks for posting that SusanMT. Having been in the doldrums recently myself, I have to say that I couldn't care less if taking Prozac every day for the resto of my life would guarantee that I would never go back their. I am curious tho as to why people are so resistent to taking ADs - I mean over and above side effects - it is fair enough to resent that - is it societal pressure/stigma about mental illness? is it perception that you are somehow not the authentic you if you take ADs? is it feelings of inadequacy for feeling unable to manage without medication?

twogorgeousboys · 15/09/2004 18:44

Thanks for posting that Guardian piece susanmt, I think the writer speaks so much truth and sense.

My beloved Mum battled with severe depression for many years, triggered by the death of her own mother when she was 12.

She finally killed herself 4 years ago.

Whilst we, her children were grown up, it totally devastated us. The fear of losing her like this had been with us for as long as we could remember.

The colour of my soul changed the day my mother finally chose suicide to end her pain.

Some people need to stay on anti-depressants in the long term, TO STAY WELL, not to "get better" and then come off them. The analogy with insulin and diabetics is a good one. Diabetes is an illness of varying degrees. Some need lifelong insulin injections. Some don't, but need tablets. Some can control it through their diet.

My Mum definitely needed to STAY on appropriate anti -d medication.Then again, she also needed the right dose. Someone with at least 2 very serious suicide attempts on her medical records, needed more than a prescription for 20mg of prozac a day. The cynical part of me says that because she was a middle aged woman, without dependants, she was bundled out of the door with a wholly inadequate prescription for a very serious depressive episode.

What am I trying to say?

I think I'm saying my Mum could have kicked depression for good if her illness had been taken seriously and she was given real support to manage her depression in the long term, with medication being PART of an overall management programme for her illness.

MUMINAMILLION · 15/09/2004 19:32

That piece in the Guardian was so moving. Thanks for posting it. It does make me think about whether taking AD's is such a bad thing. I do feel, like mummysteven said, that somehow I am not experiencing 'real' emotions when taking prozac. Which is stupid really, as the emotions I feel when not taking them are hardly normal.

Anyway, there has been such a strong resonse to this, and I am hugely grateful, that I have contacted MN to request a board for depression. I really hope they agree with my plea (I did fully prostrate myself before them!) and I will let you know as soon as I do.

I cant thank you all enough.

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twogorgeousboys · 15/09/2004 19:51

I think that's a great idea Muminamillion

MUMINAMILLION · 15/09/2004 20:47

It is a really good idea. Not mine however, all thanks to solange and moniker.

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moniker · 16/09/2004 09:42

Hi MIM - I am at meetings a lot today but got your email and pronmise I will be back in touch later. I'll look out for the board too - thanks for sorting that out!

What M27 (I'm copying Bunglie here - I though you were Mum to 7 as well at first!!) - you're right about how I feel about the ADs. But also my GP has said they are only a short term solution. When things have been at their worst there is usually a conected event (eg redundancy, relationship problems etc)and that's when I have been to see her. I probably haven't ever really explained that it has come and gone for years - I have just felt pathetic about that as without a reason it seems worse. Do you see what I mean?

Anyway, maybe I should go back and explain - she's a bit scarey though! I'll have a think about it or maybe seeing one of the other doctors.

I'll look in later!
Mon xxx

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