Ok, I saw someone giving CPR on the pavement today ...

[NotQuiteCockney]

And was a bit . There was an ambulance there - would they just be giving CPR between defib? Or what?

There was a whole crowd of people watching. Why would people do that?

(Thankfully, DS1 didn't notice, I wasn't up for the conversation.)

do they give cpr before defib? no surely if poss they would go staright for that if avaiable?
maybe they were not trained to give it and waiting for a paramedic to arrive..
but i thought ambulance techs were trained to do it now as well?

I think they do CPR between defibs, to prevent brain damage? CPR keeps oxygen moving around, but doesn't restart the heart - defibs (hopefully) restart the heart.

If ambulance techs can't do defib, WTF do they do? Make tea?

Not everyone can be defibrilated its got to be a rhythmn to shock back into a normal one - maybe this person did not have a shockable rhytmn.

Nothing odd about only CPR in a cardiac arrest.

Ambulance techs will most probably be trained, heck even I am trained.

But they will most likely do CPR first as it keeps the oxygen going to the brain, where as the defrib will only shock the heart. There is a very high percentage fail rate with defrib anyway, its not like on the TV it doesn't always work and often the medics will contintue with CPR after shocking.

Um, but CPR on its own doesn't do anything. I mean, it keeps the blood going around, but it never brings the person back, iyswim.

I know defib isn't a guarantee - why would it be?

CPR will keep the blood flowing and that is all that is needed till they get to hospital.

Defibs are not effective once a person is in cardiac arrest. only when still having a heart attack.

i think what he was saying was that someone in cardiac arrest was as good as dead.

No, but if someone is in an unshockable rhythmn then CPR is the only other option.

The defib machines now say 'this patient is not suitable for defibrilation' when the pads are put on so the techs know.

If someone has a cardiac arrest they will probably die but you have to try everything.

Oh and there is someting about a respiratory arrest leading to a cardiac arrest so CRP until ventilation might help??

Where was that today?

My uncles round and just said a gentleman of about 70 had heart attack and he tried CPR but he died.

This was in East London.

Oh this was in Southampton

I've been trained to use a defib and was taught to do cpr inbetween defib shocks.

Of course ambulance techs are trained.
They are trained to interpret the rhythymn and to decide for themselves when it is appropriate to deliver a shock or not.
They don't need a talking machine to tell them what to do.
Look up the resuscitation council UK for the full advanced life support protocols.
They don't make bad tea either.

gooseegg - we use talking defibs in hospitals thats why i said it - i (sort of) know non shockable rhthmns and obv staff nurses/drs do but they still use talking defibs as standard

I have given CPR on a pavement. Had a first alert ambulance driver who sorted airways (bagged him) I did the compressions. Kept going (re started him twice manually) then when ambulance got there they defibbed him as he went again. Better to do something than nothing IMO. Thankfully he actually ended up surving which apparantly is rare.

Bloody scarey situation as was only 1st year student nurse. Had to get him out of car as he was blue and onto pavement. They said if I hadnt done what I did he would have died and I did restart him twice so CPR does do something. It saved his life.

TheMuppet,I am from southa,pton. My incident was by Port Solent Tesco, around boxing day time in 2003.

NotQuiteCockney, have to disagree with the CPR not bringing someone back.

awen

i have done one cycle of compressions - was v.scary

how fab to help save someone!

did an essay on this recently, people who have a cardiac arrest have a 5% chance of surviving to discharge from hospital or something?

Very low odds. It was frighteneing as at the time didnt know if he was going to make it. Had to do police statements etc as they have to investigate every 'death'. He was in a coma, he recovered, regained memory except for the days close to his heart attack. His wife was in the car witrh him when it happened and he crashed into a tesco delivery van. Everyone was just stood around the car not knowing what to do.

Anyway, all done and hope he is still ok. I am off to bed. x

NQC - you watch too much tv, lol.

Hate it when people crowd around and gawp at that sort of thing NQC!

smurfgirl - ours are semi-automatic now too, but we do turn them to manual when in public environments or in people's homes.

can only do chest compressions on dh as a last resort as it could dislodge the cannulas from his heart.

I barely watch any TV!

Anyway, wiki doesn't exactly give stats on people reviving from just CPR (no defib), but they do say it's very unlikely. Mouth to mouth is a different deal - it actually can fix things.