Ok, I saw someone giving CPR on the pavement today ...

[NotQuiteCockney]

And was a bit . There was an ambulance there - would they just be giving CPR between defib? Or what?

There was a whole crowd of people watching. Why would people do that?

(Thankfully, DS1 didn't notice, I wasn't up for the conversation.)

Sorry, I know CPR saves lives, I mean, it doesn't fix things, it just keeps people alive while we wait for defib. It makes sense that it would be done between defibs, though, to keep the person alive then.

NQC - The ratio of compressions to breaths in adult basic life support is now 30:2 -
so to a brief witness it might look as if only compressions were being given and the bag and mask delivering the breaths might not be spotted.

NQC, this happened to me once where I used to live. I was walking past with the pushchair and saw this man on the pavement on the opposite side of the road being resuciatated by the ambulance crew. It was on a main road right opposite a BUSy hospital! The bloke unluckily looked dead but I found the hangers on and rubber neckers the most distressing tbh. It was foul

Huh? Obviously nobody would ever do compressions without breaths, that would be silly.

I meant, if someone just needs mouth to mouth, not CPR (heart beating fine, but not breathing), mouth to mouth might actually fix them.

If someone needs CPR, it's unlikely CPR will be all they need.

Yes, the rubber neckers were very weird to see. I prefer not to even look at things like that, if I can't help, I should not be there. And obviously I didn't want the DSes to see.

cpr just keeps things ticking over until you can get to a defib iirc

i did first aid this week and the trainer said that there was a test done on pigs where half were given breaths and cpr and other half just compressions and they all had the same effect. it's weird

CPR actgually got heart back into rythym(sp) twice when I had to do it. Had a prarmedic sorting out breaths. It idd make a difference and apparantly the fact he made it was because of the quick intervention.

dont know if it make a difference butg his heart stopped whilst i was there. therefore was able to get it going again pretty quickly. although it did keep sotpping.

just have to but in and say that chest compressions alone can get air into the lungs without doing mouth to mouth. This info has been researched due to current climate of Hep C and people vomiting etc. If you know what you are doing then some form of air entry is beneficial. As for rubber neckers, the best thing to do is ask them to turn round and form a wall around the person. This makes them feel like they are doing something !

actually we were taught (at both 2006 and 2007) first aid courses at work that JUST doing CPR is enough to keep someone alive until help gets there. Basically you do them the same as before but faster and for as long as you can - the pressure which is produced moves enough oxygen around the body to prevent brain damage etc......and our last trainer was one of those that go out to disasters around the world to help rescue people.

They've discovered that more people will (and are able to) actually help (instead of just standing around gawping they can do compressions when you tire) if mouth to mouth isn't involved.

confirming that our last trainer said doing chest compressions is enough to keep a person alive till they get to hosp or wherever more sophisticated equipment is present.

he also commented that there are just some people out there that even he would not want to do m2m on w/out something between him and them.

Research also shows that effective chest compressions can only be carried out for 1 minute before the 'giver' tires so the more the merrier.

CPR is just an holding mechanism it is very very rare that a patient will be resucitated through basic life support. Emergency drugs and reversing the cause of the cardiac arrest and difibrilation of shockable rhythms is the only way to save a patient in cardiac arrest( yes and patient is maintained between shocks with CPR). As distressing as it is, hearts stop for a reason and unless you can reverse the cause there isn't much hope

Try not to dwell on it Shit really does happen alot

Sorry, I know CPR saves lives, I mean, it doesn't fix things, it just keeps people alive while we wait for defib. It makes sense that it would be done between defibs, though, to keep the person alive then.

• but not everyone in a cardiac arrest can be defibrilated so what should paramedics do if someone does not have a shockable rhythmn? Just do nothing?

Where I worked in USA everyone was taught in school, college and work place how to do CPR. So if you are unlucky enough to suffer a cardiac arrest in Safeways or wherever, in USA, you have a much higher chance of survival than if you have it in UK. And CPR can keep you alive until the people with the defib get there - better than nothing IMO.

I wish more people would at least learn basic first aid in this country - better to be able to do something useful than just stand and gawp.

sg: paramedics would be taking them to the hospital, pronto and continue cpr. even if hosp, if they cannot get a shockable rhythm in hosp, they will be as good as dead anyway?

The resus council now advice that if you are in a situation and none is there to help you then just do chest compressions, no bag and masking. The chest compressions are more important. They also say that if you are in a situation where you don't have a bag and mask then don't do mouth to mouth due to the risk of infection! This is what as a midwife we're trained to do anyway. However if I was in a supermarket and someone collapsed and one person was doing chest compressions I would do mouth to mouth and scrub my lips after. I couldn't NOT do it.

But aparantly the force of the chest compression is enough to force some air into the lungs by itself. Sounds odd to me but the Resus council are the experts.

It is all about the rythym. CPR will hopefully keep someone's cicrulation going, ie keeping them alive untill either Defibrillation if it is appropriate, medication such as adrenaline which can get the heart going, or reversible causes are rectified such as low/high blood salts.