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Original poster

MMR opinions wanted pls.......yes or no????

51 replies

lilsmum · 04/09/2004 20:58

hi my dd is 7 mth old and i am starting to think about mmr..... would really like some opinions good bad and ugly!!! so i can make up my mind what to do... my nephew has been diagnosed with mild autism so obviously i am a little wary anyway but would really like some advice....please help!!!! xx

OP posts:
coppertop · 04/09/2004 21:48

Hi Lilsmum.

There have been a lot of MMR debates on Mumsnet - some of which have become quite heated. If you do a search in the archives you should find lots of arguments for and against.

Only you can make the decision about whether or not to go ahead. I personally went ahead with the MMR for both of my boys because we decided that this was the best course of action for US. It was a tough decision to make, especially as my eldest son is autistic (unrelated to the MMR). However, there are many other families who decided against the MMR as it was the best course of action for their family. Basically all you can do is to try to find out all you can (the archived threads may help) and then make your own mind up.

moomina · 04/09/2004 22:17

Hi lilsmum

I am in the same position - except that ds's MMR is on Monday! And I've almost cancelled it several times over the last few days. I must admit I have stuck my head in the sand about it until the last minute and now I suppose I'm panicking a bit

I can't advise you - all I can say is that if you are unsure find out as much as you can and then, as ct says, go with what you think is best for your family. FWIW, I think I will go ahead with it. It's not an easy decision though.

MummyToSteven · 04/09/2004 22:17

other possibility if you can afford it is to seek out single jabs on a private basis

mummytojames · 04/09/2004 22:17

lilsmum my son is due to have his mmr the week after next and we didnt even have to think about it because the dangers are far higher if they dont have it compared to if they do but like copper said itsa choice no one can make for you

lydialemon · 04/09/2004 22:27

I think I'm in a minority, but I had no worries giving DSs MMR and I will have no hesitation in giving it to DD. Nothing I've read or seen makes me feel that it's worth taking the risk of not immunising, but obviously thats just my opinion and I feel its up to each parent to decide for their own kids!

Yorkiegirl · 04/09/2004 22:29

Message withdrawn

MummyToSteven · 04/09/2004 22:29

i wouldn't say that I have no worries, and if it was a straight choice between MMR and single jabs on the NHS, I would go for single jabs immediately, but on balance i will let DS have the MMR. Unfortunately there is a small risk to both decisions - having the jabs or not having the jabs (and depending on some children's family history/previous reactions to jabs having the jabs could be rather more risky than not having the jabs)

cab · 04/09/2004 22:29

DD now four - we went for the MMR but only after a lot of soul-searching and reading anything we could find. Google MMR and ask your g.p. for as much information as possible.
Best of luck making your decision - it is a hard one.

edam · 05/09/2004 00:06

It is a hard decision. But even if the worst-case scenario is true, then there's only a tiny risk that any child would be harmed by MMR to set against the real risk of complications from mumps, measles or rubella (although obviously the risk of rubella is that your child would infect a pregnant woman). Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin, the leading independent experts in reviewing drug safety, found MMR was safe. I know all this is true. BUT having said all that, I am hesitating over ds and think I've decided to go for single jabs. Don't want to influence anyone else, just admitting how very difficult this is even if, like me, you've plenty of professional access to evidence that MMR is safe. Think if ds was a dd I wouldn't hesitate, tbh.

Original poster
lilsmum · 05/09/2004 06:43

thanks everyone for your replys.....stupid question but is autism more common in boys then? i dont really know much about it to be honest. x

OP posts:
coppertop · 05/09/2004 07:34

I think the official figure is that boys are about 4 times more likely to be autistic. However, it's early on a Sunday morning and I've had no sleep so I'm prepared to be corrected.

WideWebWitch · 05/09/2004 09:22

Edam, don't want to be controversial here (really!) but are the risks of complications from the diseases that serious do you think? Have you got any stats you can post on no of incidences of the diseases pre MMR being introduced and fatalaties/serious complications from the actual diseases? And, more to the point, do you believe them? This is a genuine question and I really am interested in your view on it.

Beetroot · 05/09/2004 09:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Jimjams · 05/09/2004 09:32

How old is your nephew? (I alwasy think diagnoses like "mild" autism are a bit dodgy). What's his family history? Are there Aspies/other autistics in the family or is there a strong history of autoimmune conditions. if there is a strong hitory of autoimmunity then I would be careful about giving MMR, or any vaccination come to that. Having said that even people who are working in autism and do believe there is a link think the numbers are small- maybe 7% of autism cases are triggered by MMR. In terms of vaccinations many researchers are far more suspicious of thimerosil than MMR.

However there is an option that is considered to be safer by people who do think there is a problem and that is the single jabs. If you are going to worry about the MMR and can afford the single jabs why not go for that?

Yes autism is 4 x more common in boys than girls (the reason we wanted times to come to terms with number 3 being a boy if he was- and he is- and we've booked the therapist frpom birth )

misdee · 05/09/2004 09:53

ho-jack alert!!

so your gonna be a mum of 3 boys!! wow. seems everyone is having boys atm. friend is expecting her 2nd child soon, also a boy.

Original poster
lilsmum · 05/09/2004 09:56

my nephew was said to have "mild" autism once he had started school because of lack of concentration, there are no other links or people with autism in the family so alot of our family especially my father doesnt believe he has it to him he is just a normal lad!!!! i do think that the school is trying to blame it on something and are looking for reasons instead of it being down to them not spending the time with him, as it is a large class... but i am no health professional and neither is my father

OP posts:
Original poster
lilsmum · 05/09/2004 09:57

forgot to add my nephew is now 7 x

OP posts:
Jimjams · 05/09/2004 10:15

So who diagnosed it - the school? They're not allowed to (and are usually incapable of doing so tbh). Amkes me cross when they don't follow correct procedures and just worry everyone. Should always be diagnosed by a paeditrician. Often grandparents fail to see the obvious, but in this case I may well agree with your father!

I know misdee- I am destined to a life of chaos and speech disorders!

Original poster
lilsmum · 05/09/2004 11:07

the school sent him for tests where they asked him (what seemed to me) as very silly questions... all kids imaginations are wild so my nephew did answer some with silly answers... they send him to a behavoural sort of class every couple of weeks, i think they just try to pinpoint the blame.... years ago if a child was a little dreamy they would not have said it was a behavoural problem instead of spending the time they just say oh he is .... bla bla bla

OP posts:
misdee · 05/09/2004 11:10

jimjams, he could be pefectly fine. tho it seems that the boys in my mums side of the family, most have dyslexia or other learning probs.

i am convinced i'm having a girl, so looks like i'm in for a life of glitter, fairies and teenage moods at the age of 2!!

(did u have to have a private scan to find out the sex of the baby? i'm desperate to know but dh wont let me boo-hoo)

and to keep in line with the thread, dd2 hasnt had the MMR yet, and i am undecided on vacs for baby #3.

Jimjams · 05/09/2004 11:15

But autism isn't a behavioural problem- its a developmental disorder (that's why I got suspicious about the "mild" autism- pros don't really diagnose that). It has all sorts of sensory problems that go with it, and often the metabolismis up the creek as well. If he hasn't seen a pead then he hasn't been properly diagnosed iyswim.

I am relieved to avoid the pink though misdee! I should be more positive shouldn't I? I am assuming there will be some sort of SAL disorder as he's a boy!

misdee · 05/09/2004 11:21

glad you can avoid pink. last year dd1 favourite colour was blue, so i was quite happy. late last year it all changed to pink!! now we have pink bedroom for the girls, pink bedding, purple blinds, pink glitter etc etc. and she always wants to wear a dress, no matter what she is upto!

DD2 is more tomboyish atm (my little whirlwind, and dh's 'boy' as she loves kicking balls about), but am expecting that to change next year when the girly influence takes over.

And at least boys hair cuts are easier. i am reluctant to cut of dd2 curls as she has a very boyish way about her and people thought she was a boy when younger with short hair.

can i ask, where does the taking out of thermisol (sp??) leave you with regards to vaccinations? I know there has been research which has proves links with thermisols and conditions on the spectrum, but now it is being removed does it change your mind on vacs at all? For me, its all the more confusing.

edam · 05/09/2004 12:15

www, I'm supposed to be working so I'm not going to look up the figures right now, but yes, there are real risks from measles, mumps and rubella. The one that frightens me is rubella because I couldn't cope with the guilt of killing/seriously injuring someone else's unborn child (and if you don't vaccinate it could be your second pregnancy too). My best friend at primary school was deaf and had a hole in her heart from rubella. Unlikely you'd get a serious enough case of mumps to do much damage (dh was vaccinated but still had it four times) but measles can be very nasty and given low rates of vaccination (allowing for the fact that they don't count children who have had single jabs) outbreaks are a possibility. Serious complications from measles are rare, but real. And weighing up relative risk, there's a much higher risk of a serious case of measles than vaccine damage. However, you'll notice I still haven't MMR'd ds yet (concerned because I stupidly allowed him to have DTwP and regret it bitterly now). My mother put it quite brutally: 'I'd rather have a blind child than an autistic one'. Guess that might be too strong for people who do have direct experience of autism, don't know. But my sister works with people with autism and there is no way I, personally, would want to take even an iota of a possible risk of that happening to my son.

Jimjams · 05/09/2004 13:39

not easier if your child happens to be autistic though misdee. You wouldn't believ ds1 and haircuts . Well I worry about multiple vaccinations if there's a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity tbh. Too many Th2 cells getting overexcited and you have problems. No definite link but I don't think the research has been done.

I was going to give ds2 tetanus when he got closer to 5 (the idea being thimerosil can't do so much damage to brain development then) but I'm not giving him a 5 in one. No way- so he'll have to wait until he's 10- when he can have the single. if they developed a single tetanus without thimerosil then I would give him that now (2 and a half) and would give ds3 it at the same age. may even give ds1 a booster in that case.

Edam- the person I know who spread rubella everywhere (to ds1. possibly ds2- although symptoms weren't clear, and to my friends twins) was a vaccinated child. His mother didn't know he had rubella as the symptoms were mild and he had been vaccinated - so she assumed -fairly enough that it was nothing. DS1 didn't spread it anywhere as I knew by then he had been exposed and we stayed in. Best protection for a girl against rubella is to get it herself as a child.

Not sure about your mum's comment really- not keen on comparing disabilities. I'm sure severe autism can be more life limiting than blindness but like everything to do with disability will depend on the individual case and the therapies/teaching a child receives and their individual potential.

edam · 05/09/2004 13:49

Jimjams, I know what you mean about rubella but you can't work on the assumption that it's the other woman's responsibility; some people don't have immunity and I would be horrified if I allowed my son to infect them.

My mum's comment was extreme but rang true for me because blindness (as you know) is a recognised complication of measles. And blindness doesn't cause such dramatic changes in personality. My understanding of autism (and this may be faulty, you know far more than me about it, obviously) is that you 'lose' the person they once were. I don't want to compare disabilities and choosing between disabilities is a bizarre thing to do. I don't want ds to have either! But weighing up the risks, for me, I find autism more frightening than the possible complications of severe measles, apart from death.
My mother's generation think that complications of measles are to do with poor nursing. And they actually saw measles, unlike my generation. Imagine that isn't 100 per cent correct, and you can get severe infection that turns out badly however good the nursing, but interesting.

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