OK so ethically where do you lie with regards to private health insurance?

[Curmudgeonlett]

is it a good thing to use it because you're covered and it takes the financial burden off your GP and into the private sector?

or

is it ethically wrong because you get seen sooner than NHS patients?

Ooops - can you tell that I started writing this before dd was awake and only finished after we'd had our 'wake up' morning chat?

Sofia - just curious - why 3 different policies instead of one?

3 policies because it's cheaper. The family policies only start to make sense at 4 or 5 people in the family. They're really more for people who get insurance through their employer.

I have to raise issue with you phrase that health care is very expensive in the US. It's a little misleading because it implies that healthcare isn't expensive anywhere else. It costs just as much in the UK, it's just that the costs are hidden and you pay for them with your taxes in the UK. AND you don't have a real choice about what type of coverage to get.

Thanks I get it now!! I didn't know there were 2 systems. It is medicare patients who get free healthcare (certainly for emergencies don't know about routine) in the UK. It strikes me as a little unfair that it isn't reciprocated!
So much of the rest of your post is v. true. It bugs me sometimes when people comment on the 'free' NHS most tax payers are aware it is anything but 'free.'

Although I suppose one downside is large deductibles might put some off seeking care when they really need it.

You are correct about the problem with large deductible policies. Current studies are indicating just that problem. However, everything has a tradeoff and there is no perfect way of dealing with it. In fact, many large deductible policies, like mine, give you a virtually free checkup with your gp, gynocologist and mammogram each year as part of the policy to encourage preventative care.

Sofia - point taken about the cost of healthcare in the US vs UK.

Thanks for that info, SofiaAmes. What a lot of things to take into account when taking out insurance - I find it hard enough just renewing the house inmsurance, hehe!

Re annual mammograms. They are not given that frequently in the UK because research showed the extra radiation from annual mammograms can actually cause breast cancer. It used to be five yrly in the UK but is now 3yrly.

Insurance soon stops paying for chronic conditions, I battle with whether its worth having the insurance or paying for one off appointments privately. I have found that for a child with a condition such as autism you have to pay (or do it yourself SALT/OT/pre-school teaching). Or you won't get any. Is it ethically wrong to not give your non verbal child access to speech and langauge therapy if you can afford it and know that you won't get it on the NHS? (Quote" your ds isn;t capable of doing anything so we won't provide any speech and language therapy as there's no point". end quote). Actually I think the NHS is unethical to ration essential services.

Dh works for the NHS so, unsurprisingly, private health care isn't a perk of his job. There is a private hospital just round the corner from his hospital and there have been many instances of patients from the private hospital being transferred to the NHS hospital when things have gone wrong (with operations/complications etc.) The private hospital does not have the resources or equipment to when something goes badly wrong - though they are fine for minor surgeries etc. Plus, as already mentioned, you have all the exclusions to policies for long term, chronic conditions - they only really want you if you're fairly well!

There's an awful lot wrong with the NHS but I think if you're really ill - you need an NHS hospital.

gess agree NHS is very underfunded and lots of money going on the wrong things, but to get what we all want and think we deserve from it is going to require a lot more in taxes. I am very curious (in a abstract way not talking about your personal position obviously) just how much we all would pay/where people would be taxed to get the money needed. However that just raises the problem SA has raised about rationing it withi the UK.
Sofia thanks for all that info on the US health system, I find it interesting. Can ask you about a recent '?urban myth' doing the rounds. Is it true some American hospitals security officers put alot of emphasis on keeping some people off the site? Since if you are ill on their land they have a duty of care and must look after you but if you are down the street there is no duty of care.

moo there was a thread a little while ago along the lines of Portland or Lido wing recommendations please, and every lawyer, Dr, NHS worker passing couldn't stop themselves from saying 'well I'd never give brith privately and then a bit of a horror story etc' the poor person was very polite about all the ransacking of her poor thread. Never said which she'd opted for though. After all the comments I bet it was the Lido (NHS down the corridor to pick up the pieces) it was kind of funny for everyone except her!!

I am not aware of the particular rumor that you are talking about, but reality is that no system is perfect and there probably is some incident somewhere of that happening. Or maybe it was someone who was not actually ill, but pretending to be so for whatever reason and it got distorted into an ugly urban myth.

Regarding the portland and lido wing. I tried to get into the Lido wing when I was pregnant with my first and was told that the waiting list was over 9 months long (guess you have to register before conception!). As it turned out I gave birth at the reglar NHS part of the hospital and it was a truly horrific experience with some of the worst medical care I have ever seen. It is only by the grace of god (and I'm an atheist) that me and my ds are alive. And that's the part of the hospital where they would send the high risk cases from the Lido wing.
So for my second I decided I would go to the Portland (my parents who were horrified by St.Mary's said they would pay for it).....that is until I actually visited the place and realized how run down and antiquated it was and frankly seemed to be no better or cleaner than the NHS hospitals and since I was planning a VBAC and 39, I really wanted to be in a place that could handle a medical emergency (not clear that this would be the case at the Portland). Ended up having dd at Queen Charlotte's on the natural birth floor...did have a medical emergency and was rushed into theatre...so lucky I made the decision I did. Care was better on the natural birth floor... but still pretty poor as compared to what my cousin got giving birth at almost the same time and same age in the USA.

SofiaAmes please tell me to bog off if you are too busy but can I ask in what respects your cousins care was better? (excluding food/decor)

1dilemma- tbh I think the NHS should be scrapped in its current form as I think it is failing so many. I hugely object to dh paying a fortune in tax, then having to have spent the last 6 years paying for any therapy for ds1 out of our own pocket (we are up to eyeballs in debt as a result). We were only trying to access basic servides, nothing flash.

I lived in Japan for a while. Health insurance was quite pricey but at least I was treated quickly when I needed to be (if not luxuriously).

I used to be opposed to it. Until a particularly bad call by a GP deprived me of any effective mental health care for my condition during PG. leading me to seek out a private psychologist. Fortunately excellent ante-natal medics sorted out a CMHT referral. And until my DS faced a 10 month wait (after the 8 months it took to get a referral) for SALT.

it's v. difficult isn't it.
(I don't pretend to know the answer btw) but v. curious about the differences between health systems. As I understand it the oft said flaw in your comment is that you would still pay the same tax just have to pay all over again for healthcare.

My comment was to gess btw
and mts I am another who thinks wow 7 children every time I see your name

the Austrian state system seems to be much better - my pal regularly self-refers her and DD to specialists when back over there for her summer holidays. Not quite sure how it's all funded, will have to ask her.

you wouldn't be paying the same tax though would you.... SofiaAmes explained recently how low US tax is (not that I would want a US copied system, just some elements, like being able to see a dr of my choice when I want to.....). My Argentinian friends (who spent years here; average middle class academics, not hugely wealthy) went back to Argentina early when their son needed open heart surgery as they felt they could access far superior care for a major operation over there, and they did not trust the NHS. One reason was they said that the UK drs would leave operating until it was crictical, whereas in Argentina they would operate before it became crictical. Their son is fine now.

Can't comment on US tax system don't know enough. If it were to ever change here I can't see the gov. giving us huge amounts of tax back, a little will be allowed to come the way of the masses just to make us agree to pay more for insurance policies but it would soon be taken or clawed back.

There are also huge underlying cultural differences. America if very much about the rights of the individual while the UK (and other European countries even more so) is more about the rights of society as a whole. The countries where the European system seems to work the best are countries where the population is fairly homogenous (ie Scandinavians). This seems to lend itself to a system where everyone gets the same thing. America is so huge and the variations in the population are so great that it is really difficult to come up with any one way of doing things that serves all well. I think that the Europeans are coming up against this somewhat during the formation of the EU. (Just look at the arguments over what you can call chocolate)

1dilemma...happy to answer questions...I'm fascinated by it all myself. My cousin gave birth in a clean private room. Her baby was delivered by the obstetrician whom she had been seeing regularly during her entire pregnancy. After delivery she had a clean private room with regularly attending nurses and doctor. She had easy births so was only in overnight, but had she had a cs like mine, she would have had this attention for the 3-5 days she spent in hospital. I, on the other hand, for my first child did most of my labor in public hallway. When I was moved into a delivery room, I had a constant stream of people (patients, cleaners, midwives) coming in and out. I was left unattended for long periods of time and everything everywhere was beyond filthy. When I was attended to it was by a different person each time. (During my entire pregnancy and labor, I never saw the same midwife twice). After 40 hours of labor I was give an emergency cs and put in a room with 4 other people and an emergency button that didn't work. There was one midwife attending to the entire ward (40+ women) and no one checked on me for the entire night. Anyway, I won't go on, but there really is no comparison.

I do have to acknowledge that even the fancy American hospitals have absolutely c**p food, though at least they provide you with some. I was left out of several meals when I was in hospital because they "ran out."

Ethically wrong? Thought that idea had been killed by a plethora of meaningless jingos.

Well I think it's okay but it comes free with my job ...

It's interesting to talk SofiaAmes your experience during your childbirth sounds pretty dire and a long way removed from what it should be. I'm sorry.
So much of what you said is totally unnecessary, call bells not working, 1 midwife to do everyone, one of the things the NHS is having to grapple with is a 'patient as consumer' model of care which will undoubtedly put an additional strain on resources.
Although the level of dirt is something else I agree, curious how that has been allowed to happen. I have a limited experience of a French hospital and though in many ways I found it difficult (language etc.)the cleanliness was something else!!

I would not object to contributing to my / my family's medical care if it meant that others who couldn't afford private get quicker / better access to the NHS.

I grew up out of England, so PHI was the norm - if you didn't have health cover it was abnormal. Here, it seems very few people pay out of pocket for PHI. DH and I had it for a year or so, but everything we needed during that year was not covered under PHI here as they were pre-exising conditions.

I have looked into PHI since DS2 was born, but have just decided that the exclusions do not make it worthwhile

I have had no horrendous experiences under the NHS in the 9 years I have been in the UK, but still believe that reforms are needed to the current system (ie those who can afford to should at least contribute some) or the whole system will collapse and we will be heading towards the horrific US system.