Separating 3month old Vaccine

[BrookeCowan]

Has anyone had their child's vaccines separated recently? They've changed the vaccines now so babies are having 5-in-1 which is too much for their little bodies. After being persuaded, my son had his first vaccine and was hospitalised shortly after. I want the rest of his vaccines to be given separately, however the NHS won't give me any advice on how and where to get them done.

Kochab. Please. You are a marvellous human doing wonderful things but you really and truly are wasting your breath. Delete this thread, I’m frustrated just reading it, I’m not sure how you are being so calm and measured.

bruffin obviously I can’t comment on what you’ve read, but it is also my understanding that the kidneys are the primary target organ (with others including the brain accumulating smaller amounts) for aluminium in circulation. I do know that release from the muscle is a slow process with some persisting after many months or even years (although there’s not much data on it), which might amount to chronic exposure I guess. It’s not a linear release though, most is released in the first few weeks with a slower rate thereafter, which I suppose makes it hard to model.

I am a bit concerned that this is one of those areas of scientific dogma that people have largely stopped questioning, judging by the lack of studies into this and the lack of discussion around it when new vaccines are added. (I can think of other examples during my career where the dogma that everyone knew to be true turned out to be wrong - it does happen) Given that there are already some studies into adjuvant-related autoimmune disease, my fear is that assumption could saddle children with other problems further down the line.

@KochabRising Your patience is commendable!

I don't know why you're arguing with OP. Let her do her thing. She isn't listening and just wants an argument.

Thank you.

I have had an awful lot of practice dealing with very unreasonable people. And toddlers, but you can sometimes reason with them ;)

You’re right though. True Believers cannot be reasoned with. I’m on a fb group where sometimes this comes up - the admins realised that it was always the same group of people starting and reinforcing and then realised they were all in some sort of odd religious anti vaccine cult. I do wonder if the same happens here.

You can’t argue faith with logic +shrug+ have a lovely afternoon all ;)

.* I do know that release from the muscle is a slow process with some persisting after many months or even years (although there’s not much data on it), which might amount to chronic .
I dont think that is true at all.

Kocha I see where you’re coming from, but I find the insistence that no parents should have a choice because some might not ‘comply’ and finish the course quite patriarchical and a bit patronising. Most parents aren’t idiots, particularly if they’ve researched enough to want to deviate from the schedule. If someone asks for an extended schedule they are clearly not against vaccination. As someone who spreads out vaccines routinely I always ensure my children have the full course, and there is no issue with kids getting upset because a single jag as a baby is not that much of a trauma. (Being held down for several might build it up as more of an ordeal).

The number of jabs is actually exactly the same so no extra cost there, although it might mean more appointments (depending on how the system is arranged - defined appointments are more problematic than an open clinic). These might be offset to an extent by a reduction in GP and hospital appointments as side effects tend to be less extreme when jags are given separately. I think this is the crux of it - budget -rather than what is best for the child necessarily.

Sorry meant to say the majority is eliminated through the blood stream within 24hours

parents aren’t idiots, particularly if they’ve researched enough to want to deviate from the schedule

That would be internet based “research” I assume. I despair.

Yes, parents are idiots if they blindly follow shit on the internet rather than scientific fact. The same as you would be an idiot if you believed the earth was flat or that the Queen was a serpent.

If you do separate ones the adherence levels drops hugely - people just don’t do them all.

There’s no reason to do them separately - that’s the biggest reason. The multivalent vaccines are efficient and allow kids to be protected against lethal diseases atca young age. If you are spacing you leave kids open to these diseases rather than having them protected at a younger age. It’s actively LESS safe than having several at once.

The people who’ve pushed for single vaccines tend to have financial interests in single vaccines.

@KochabRising I agree with others, your patience and measured responses to OP are commendable.

I'm a paediatrician who has unfortunately seen more than one unvaccinated child die from meningiococcal HUS, meningitis (strains that are covered by vaccine) as well as lives of previously healthy babies changed forever by pertussis and measles. I find it impossible to comprehend how any parent like the OP can put their child at risk of this when there are well-researched, robust vaccines available.

Since becoming a Mum, I've realised how hard it is to take your child for vaccines where there are multiple needles, potential fever and pain afterwards too but I will never hesitate to vaccinate.

Unfortunately in cases like this OP, it's like banging your head against a brick wall. I just hope I won't ever see her in hospital with her child on a ventilator from a vaccine preventable illness, or even worse, having to be the person that tells her there is nothing more we can do and we have to withdraw care

WhatInTheWorldIsGoingOn that wasn’t directed at me I hope - I was quoting! With my head in my hands. 🙄

@KochabRising my neighbour is a doctor, who explained to me that having them separate is the same as having them all at once however it's just not as violent on their bodies?
Have you evidence of this being wrong?

bruffin which bit don’t you believe? There isn’t a lot of data, and most of what there is seems to derive from animal studies. A few articles are linked in the discussion below. It seems most excretion is within the first couple of weeks with 20-25% persisting a lot longer and gradually building up. Obviously there are other sources of aluminium including from the diet. I think the whole question deserves a lot more attention.

www.researchgate.net/post/At_what_rate_is_the_aluminium_adjuvant_absorbed_from_vaccine_into_the_bloodstream

If you look at everything that is in each vaccine...you then start to wonder exactly what it's doing to their body. If being concerned about your child is being idiotic then please explain how doing as your told without trying to be informed yourself is the opposite? @WhatInTheWorldIsGoingOn there has been many injections and vaccines which one minute have been okay then the next minute it's all changed and they go back on what they've said...so why take the risk? Why should we all be followers? Why is it so shocking for people to have their own mind?

It seriously concerns me that any doctor describes vaccines as 'violent' . Not a term I or any colleague would ever use for them.

Kochabrising has explained multiple times the rationale for the schedule being as it is and has also justified the safety of the current schedule. Another poster has also explained the difference between separating the components of multivalent vaccines to separating the number of 'needles'.

Have you even read the responses that well educated individuals have given you? Really doesn't sound like you have, more like you just want to spout your own unfounded nonsense with no papers or names of individuals to back you up.

Kochab I understand your points, but in terms of those that otherwise utterly refuse, would it not help stop herd immunity from lowering further? Or you think not enough would pay for that option to be worthwhile offering it?

I'm not anti vax btw, just seems that if increasing numbers won't vax with multiples then something needs to be done to lower the risks to those that cannot vax/ have lowered immunity, and I'm not in favour at all of making it compulsory

It isn’t violent on their bodies. It’s a vaccination. It causes an immune response.

Spacing means it takes longer to get full protection - which means a child is hugely more likely to get an actual disease.

I’m really under no compunction to provide you with data you won’t read, acknowledge or understand but that’s the crux of it.

Vaccinated quicker = less time unprotected = fewer children exposed to lethal diseases.

You’ve probably never seen a child or young adult die of something like meningitis/measles/diphtheria. If you had you moghtvthink differently. And you haven’t seen it because everyone else vaccinated their kids. So antivaxxers benefit from everyone else’s good sense.
If everyone thought like you we’d have epidemics again, you’d see children dying and being maimed by these diseases

Frankly I think that’s the way we are going. Once that happens there will be a large societal backlash against anti vaxxers.

there has been many injections and vaccines which one minute have been okay then the next minute it's all changed and they go back on what they've said...

Please back this up with names of 'multiple' vaccines. Specifically injections which have later proven to cause harm and been withdrawn for this reason. I challenge you to name multiples that you claim exist.

In reality, research is done everyday so science does change and things are adjusted to improve vaccinations, cover more conditions and improve the health of the population.

Kocha no, I mean research like the JCVI minutes, pubmed articles, vaccine product data, that kind of thing. If you read my posts you’ll note that I’m actually in favour of multivalent vaccines and instead object to multiple doses of adjuvant. You’ll also note that all my sources are reputable scientific ones. I also have a PhD in biomedical Science plus 10 years post doc experience (including 5 at a virology institute) so you would be wrong to succumb to the belief that everyone who raises any questions is your stereotypical anti Vaxxer.

I used to hold the views that you do. However, having become a parent and having seen how unpleasant vaccine side effects can be, and how much less unpleasant they are when done one at a time, I have decided that actually it is far safer for my kids to be delayed a month or two than stick to the schedule. They are still fully vaccinated, I recognise the importance of vaccination, but I do get frustrated with the overly aggressive ‘do as you’re told you idiot’ rhetoric that you sometimes come across. Incidentally, from a basic human psychology point of view, being too controlling is more likely to make people push back than compromising and accommodating their point of view in ways that are still completely safe, like extending a vaccination schedule.

Okay so my son became really poorly after having his first vaccines and I know mums who's child have also become ill afterwards. Are we suppose to put that down to a coincidence? Before that my son was the happiest little chap, healthy and full of life. And not only that what about the children that have died after wards? Are we really suppose to believe that's Sudden Infant Death syndrome? Or Cot Death? Instead of trying to hit me with science, let's talk reality. Not everyone's body is the same and can handle everything the same.

To reiterate, the number of vaccines given at any one moment is irrelevant - they are just a handful of selected viruses in a soup of millions that your baby will be fighting off every day.

I know it is hard to subject your baby to a painful injection; and also to subject them to something that you, as a non-scientist, do not understand. But the NHS would not pay out millions for nothing.

Prevention is key when it comes to the more serious illnesses. One of my DDs had whooping cough and was very very ill - 40 years later she still has problems with chest infections that date from this illness.

Apologies Kocha, is seems it wasn’t you who assumed that any questions must have come from Daily Mail type sites.

I really wish that MNHQ would delete these threads. They're absolutely toxic. And I wish they'd fine people who willfully put their children's health at risk like this. At the very least, you should be under social services supervision because this is neglect.