What were your reasons for not vaccinating your child?

[Londonmamma]

I don't think we've done this for a while and I like to keep up to date on the vaccination issue so - fire away!

Hathor I don't believe it does reduce the incidence. When you look at graphs of incidence of diseases they follow a pattern and the steep drop almost always occurs before the introduction of the vaccination.

Then you have diseases like scarlet fever, which run their natural courses and go away without any vaccine.

I guess the concept is but in practice it doesn't work out.

To be pedantic scarlet feaver has not gone away, it has mutated and is now less serious. And remember that, like investments, the seriousness of illnesses can go up as well as down

Steep drop depends on what causes the transmission. You can't make blanket assumptions. And many diseases are cyclical in nature. So while the incidence could have been dropping, vaccination may well have produced a later epidemic.

And smallpox is kind of gone now

The trouble is that whilst the medical profession is happy to admit that vacccines can cause manjor damage to some, when it actually happens they're remarkably reticent about even examining a potential link. See my links below about the vaccine damage compensation scheme. Wakefiled only ever said that MMR should be replaced with singles whilst further research to clarify the position was carried out- he never said that children shouldn't be protected against measles. Look at where that suggestion got him. Thimerosal is a known neurotoxin yet it remained in vaccineds given to 8 week olds in the UK log after it had been removed from baby jabs in other countries.

Indeed and given the treatment of Wakefield it has been made so much harder for anyone within the profession to question the MMR so reasoned and intelligent debate has been stifled.

Where is the evidence for that Spider (the diseases usually dropping off before vaccination)?

I thought that scarlet fever is treated with antibiotics, rather than vaccinated against. It has not disappeared.

but to be pedanitic back smallpox vaccination also killed a large number of people- it really wasn't a wonder drug without side effects. I do wonder what would happen if terrorists did do the ulitmate and release smallpox because the vaccination shouldn't be given to anyone who shares a household with someone with eczema. That's a lot of contraindicated households now.

Whooping cough has mutated supposedly because of selection pressure from vaccination- it has actually become less serious in this case, but there is a strain around that apparently will not be prevented by pertussis vaccination (although need to read more about this- haven't looked it up in the last few years so picture may have changed).

I'm surprised no-one has any opinion on the change in my sons SLD school population.

But smallpox killed 1 in 10. And some of those vaccinated would have had the disease, since vaccination was traditionally 'ring fence' rather than blanket vaccination of the background population.

I agree with you over the need for greater reserch though

I remember seeing the graphs Spidermama describes. In fact they show decline, then a RISE at the place where vaccine was introduced (as some people do catch the disease from the vaccine), and then the trend continues downwards as it would have done. Clean water, hygine and better nutrition have caused most of these diseases to fall. I will try and find a link to the graphs.

Releasing smallpox is a bit tricky, but yes we can expect the vaccination to kill many people.
At first glance it's mildly surprising it works at all, which is why it wasn't discovered for so long.
I can't take many injections because of my allergy to eggs where they are cultured, but that nice Mr. Bush is spending big money on trying to sort that.
Public health is a bit like that, you can't avoid hurting some people. I recall reading how vaccinations used to be given by shared needles.

easy to be glib if your's isn't the child hurt DC.

Particularly since provision for help for those people is often negligable.

gess - if someone released small pox I guess there would be lots of deaths as children now aren't vaccinated against it.

cazee - if that is the case, then how can you tell if the continuing fall is due to the vaccine or not? Would be interested to see the graphs.

I think the information we are given on vaccines should be less black and white, and more honest in its appraisal of the benefits and risks.

Hathor, I think we would all agree with you on that

Only found this US graph so far, but it makes interesting reading...here

This one shows that deaths from measles in the UKhad fallen massively before the injection was introduced (in 1968 did someone say?) here

oh agree MB, but just pointing out its not a clear black nd white good vs bad. My point really about smallpox is that with supposedly higher rates of eczema now it would be hard to give. I had the smallpox jab btw had a terrible reaction to it!

But DC public health doesn't need to be like that. That;s my point. 1 dollar more per shot and thimerosal would have been gone a long time ago. Public health shouldn't mean just using the cheapest solution and sod the ones who get left brain damaged by it. Public health should be about protecting the public in the safest way possible.

Okay Spidermama, thanks for those links:
Shes NOT having the measles jab. Ive had both measles and German measles and I plan on BF for a while anyway (doesn`t that protect her somewhat?)
Scary stuff about vaccines skewing the immune system! There are loads of kids in Japan with all kinds of ecxema and allergies, but BF is highly encouraged here, more than the UK, so I wonder what could explain that.

But I dont know about Polio or Japanese Encephalitis yet. Ill probably let her have them, because if Polio is alive, and shes playing with kids who have had the vaccine, doesnt that mean she`ll be at risk of catching it?

Sakura, there are two forms of polio vaccine, oral and injection. One causes polio in some children, and the other, as far as I know, doesn't. Can't remember which is which, but I advise you to look in to it before doing it.

Ah Japanese encephalitis is a difficult one isn't it. I wondered about getting that when I lived in Japan (in 'inaka'). In the end I was too disorganised so didn't.

oral is the one that can be passed on. Whereabouts in Japan are you Sakura?

Just checked, it is the oral one that can (v rarely) lead to polio.

x post

Spidermama- I survived measles unscathed but my best friend from school is deaf in one ear as a result. i remember she spent time in an oxygen tent. A boy I knew died. We were all 6 and 7. We were all from an affluent semi rural area if you are wondering . . .

My cousin was born deaf due to my aunt catching rubella during pregnancy.

I"ve posted this before on another thread and talked to my Mum about it . . . she has since told me that her other sister lost a baby (stillbirth at 8 months) due to catching Rubella during pregnancy. She's never told me as it has hurt so much.