CPN - any experiences?

[anon4this]

Hi
Have posted previously about PND but changed my name for this. Briefly, I have a 7 month old, but have never really felt like he is mine. I don’t have negative feelings about him in the slightest but if someone turned round and said that a mistake was made at the hospital I would believe them. I’ve totally felt unmotivated to do anything apart from sit around all day. There are also a few health concerns about him which are worrying me. My HV has been visiting weekly but really recommended I saw my GP. I bit the bullet and went last week. My GP (who I had not seen before) is writing a referral to the mental health team, and he said that depending on what they decide I will either be seen by a CPN or a psychiatrist. I feel it’s all a bit heavy and am now worried that I am on a road I can’t get off. Does anyone have any knowledge of what exactly will happen. He said if it was a CPN that they would come to my house?

I feel like it's all got out of proportion but guess I may not be able to judge things rationally at the moment.

I have not had time to read all this sorry.

I have a CPN (I used to self harm) and he is incredible. I had one when I was a teenager as well, and she saved my life.

I have found psychiatrists to be cold, whereas CPNs have always been kind and understanding, I don't feel that I am being analysed or anything!

Good luck x x

thanks Marina but unfortunately neither central London or Edinburgh are practical at the moment.
It's like the rest of my life I know what I should be doing but I lack the motivation to do it. I think if I was told there was someone excellent next door I would think of a reason not to contact them!
As my son is 7 months old so I feel that I should have shaken off the asking someone's permission to do things, and should not really be surprised at seeing him all the time, as I feel like I keep forgetting about him. I guess it shows there is something wrong with me that needs sorting and I need to get on with it - bt I can't

anon4this - you already have started to do something by posting and speaking honestly to your GP and HV. as I understand it, the GP is setting the wheels in motion for you to receive further help - so unless you are mad keen to look for private counselling/psychotherapy, if you wait just a little longer till the GP sorts something out, you can take things from there.

anon4this, you mentioned something about your HV going away for a while, so wouldn't be visiting you. Will you ask her to resume her visits?

anon4this, I haven't seen this thread before so I apologise for coming to it so late. The feelings you describe sound so much like those I had when I had PND after the birth of my first son. I felt utterly detached from him: I didn't want to hurt him (which was how I had always perceived PND), in fact I felt protective towards him in the way you would towards any baby (like if you saw something was about to fall on them you would move them out of the way). But I didn't feel any kind of special maternal bond with him - if someone had said there had been a mistake and I wasn't really supposed to have had him I would have packed him a bag and waved goodbye. I felt like that til he was about 6 months old (and I was on anti-depressants from him being 2 weeks old). I didn't ever get a rush of maternal feelings - things just slowly, and almost imperceptibly, improved.

Your other feelings - the lethargy, the inability to make decisions, get out of the house, do things - they are all classic symptoms of PND. You CANNOT pull yourself together and snap out of it, and it isn't your fault. I never had a CPN or counselling (I wasn't averse to the idea of anti-d's and they did - eventually - help) but I am damn sure they do not come to see you with a view to trying to get you to somehow implicate yourself so they can section you.

A friend of mine had severe PND and did have thoughts of harming her baby - she never told a soul as she was terrified her baby would be taken into care, she somehow struggled through without help. It was only when her second child was born and the PND came back that she confided in her GP and was treated with nothing but compassion and understanding. I am not saying you would hurt your ds - your feelings sound a lot more like mine - just that people want to help you, not lock you up and take away your child.

I don't know if any of that makes sense - it's all a bit stream of consciousness. I just know you don't have to suffer and life doesn't have to be like this. It can and will get better but you need help. My ds1 is 7 now, and I feel in some ways we are even closer because we had such a traumatic start (plus, he doesn't remember a thing about it - and neither will your ds). Keep posting, and I hope you get the help you need soon.

marthamoo, thank you . that is exactly how I feel. I just feel entrusted to look after my son, but not that he is a part of me. I do worry whether it will affect him in the long term, and this is the only reason that I am (to me anyway) humiliating myself at the GPs and with the HV (who I don't really get on with - maybe because she saw a problem when I denied there was one).
I have to go back to the GP next week, and will talk with him about counselling privately (where I have some control) rather than waiting for months for a CPN - that I'm still not sure that I need.

I've never worried about hurting my son - I know that I couldn't, but I do worry that health professionals are worrying that I will because I am not being clear at expressing my feelings.

Hi again
I've had a letter through and I've got to see a psychiatrist next week. Not sure if this is worse or better than a CPN (trying to get my head round it all!!)

But I don't know whether to take my son with me. I'm not sure whether it will look odd if I don't and whether they will want to see how I interact with him, or whether it will be a distraction.

Any advice

Thanks

Hi A4T...been thinking about you and wondering how you were. I haven't any experience as I said before but my instinct would be not to take your ds. You need to be able to talk without distraction - if they want to see how you interact I'm sure they'll say so. You've taken some really big steps getting to this point, well done and good luck (sorry, I sound really patronising, don't mean to!)

anon4this - i don't think it's a case of "better or worse" - but seeing a psych is a lower degree of intervention than seeing a CPN - you are likely to see a psych in their office once a month at first, then less frequently if things improve, where as a CPN would come round to your house at an agreed interval - maybe weekly, maybe less often. a psych is more focussed on looking at meds, but can also refer you for CBT/counselling. what the psych will do at a first appointment is go through your background/life experiences and your current symptoms, and then make some sort of preliminary diagnosis, and discuss what to do next - whether that be meds/cbt/psychotherapy, or a combination of these, or possibly having a CPN come round. Given that there can be quite long waiting lists for cbt/counselling, it may be better for you to have a CPN, who could see you straightaway, rather than have to wait ages on a waiting list. i have found the focus when seeing the psych was very much on me rather than the baby/my interaction with the baby, as distinct from other health professionals, such as midwife/HV, which came as a bit of relief, I must confess. i certainly don't think you need to feel you have to bring your lo with you, and if you will be more relaxed without your lo distracting you, then it is better if you don't take your lo.

thanks - I've now had a call to say that a CPN will be coming round as well, and will pop in this afternoon. So reading your post M2S I'm not sure where I stand on the better/worse scale!

Of course the house is a mess etc etc.

typical foot in mouth job on my last post then!. a CPN is not going to give a hoot about the state of your house - unless it is literally wall to ceiling junk, so you have to mountaineer to get to the kitchen and you have 58,000 cats. these people are here to help u - i know its tough and scary, but they are not out to judge you. in many ways a CPN is a good thing, since they can offer so much more than meds - and from your previous posts you aren't keen on ADs. and it is better to have immediate access to a CPN than have to wait ages to see a counsellor - TBH i think a CPN would be better than a counsellor anyway - they would IMHO be better qualified and trained (duck for cover here) than a counsellor.
best of luck this afternoon
the good thing about you having such short notice tho is at least you have less time to worry

take care
x

anon4this, this sounds really good! To get both psych and CPN appointments so soon is excellent. Please don't worry what they will think of you or your house.

At first, when the CPN was coming to me, I left the flat as it was, dishes on the table and everything. Basically I couldn't give a damn ('take me as you find me, I don't really want you anyway' ) Then, later, I started rushing around to make it vaguely presentable...which was in a way a sign of me starting to recover because I started caring about such things. And then later still, I went back to not being bothered about the state of the flat, but this time it was a good thing because seemed to indicate that I was more relaxed about life. (Also, by that time the flat wasn't such a tip any more because I was not so low and therefore more able to keep reasonably tidy.!)

When I went to see the psychs they never wanted me to bring ds. Firstly the meeting was about me, secondly ds would have been a distraction. There was one time I had to bring him along because of a last-minute babysitting crisis, and even though he was perfectly behaved in his buggy and didn't need my attention at all for virtually the whole session, it was indeed a distraction.

It will be OK

how did it go, A4T?

well it was ok I suppose. Don't really know what I expected so made loads of notes first (although I'm sure it should have been the other way round!)

She said she thought I was a bit depressed, but did not think (private) counselling was a good idea at the moment.

Prettycandles - She said that the GP had chased them, because I had not heard anything as of Friday (got psych letter this morning) - Does that mean that the GP thinks I am awful?? The implication was that she only rang and turned up today because the GP didn't think I could hold out until next week?

Anyway she is coming back in two weeks. I'll see what happens with the psychiatrist next week and then maybe have a clearer idea

thanks for all your concerns.

Hi A4T. glad it went OK. best of luck for next week with the pysch. sounds like your GP probably found out about the psych appointment next week after sorting out the CPN, rather than that he thought you had to see someone next week.
take care

x

hi M2S
no, the way the CPN said it she definitely implied that my GP was not happy at me waiting till next week to see a member of the team.
I think the fact that the GP made me do some Edinburgh (similar questions anyway) test and I scored highly must have concerned him, especially as I said I felt better than I had done.
Not looking forward to the psych next week though

It's awfully difficult to read between the lines when you are depressed, everything can have the wrong sort of implication. Far more likely that you have a conscientious GP who is willing to push for his patients to get good and rapid treatment, rather than let them slip down a waiting list.

I wonder why the CPN didn't think private counselling was a good idea? In any case, you're seeing a psych next week so you seem to be starting on a form of counselling anyway. I'll bet psychs don't consider themselves 'counsellors' though!

I'm not sure whether I mentioned this earlier, but I too had a list of what was going on with me, ready for the CPN's first visit. She thought it was a very good idea. Although in a way I never wanted to remember what went on during my PND, it was good that I had some sort of written record so that I could see my improvement.

yes she did say I was hypersensitive at the moment, and a lot of the other things she said struck a chord. I know when anyone says anything nice about my son I turn it into a negative

She said she did not think I was strong enough for counselling (if I remember correctly). However I still think that for me, paying to see someone privately would give me some element of control, and possibly allow me to be more honest and open. {Although I don't think I have any dark secrets. I do think that anyone who comes via the GP is ultimately concerned with the welfare of my son rather than me.)

anon4this - I agree with Prettycandles that if you are depressed you become very sensitive to any form of potential criticism. Don't worry what the CPN thinks about you - concentrate on getting better. After all the CPN is in the wrong job if he/she makes judgments about people with mental health issues - and also remember that it's because of people like us that CPNs/psychs have a job at all!. I can understand where you are coming from with "control issues" about seeing somebody private. I have honestly never felt with the psychiatrist that the issue was about ds, rather than me; HVs and midwives can appear to have an agenda in terms of the baby, but the psychiatrist/CPN is to help you. Did you discuss the type of counselling that was appropriate/inappropriate. I.e. some kinds of counselling (inner child) focus a lot on negative childhood/past experiences - which can be the last thing you need if you really feel depressed. (I had this whilst PG, and found it demoralising). However other forms of therapy, such as cognitive behaviour therapy may be more useful whilst depressed. Personally I found that I made no progress with CBT until I had been taking Prozac for a few weeks - that my mood needed to be lifted before I could get to work on myself. But your circumstances are different to mine, and some people do find counselling very useful for PND. Sorry for rambling on, hope some of this is of use

trouble is M2S I still don't really want to admit I'm depressed (although everyone says I am). I appreciate all your valuable comments though.

The CPN did not really go into details. I just said that I had thought about counselling, but that I was not sure what type, and she basically said that you had to be strong to go through counselling and get anything meaningful out of it. I replied that I thought it would be convenient to do it now while on maternity leave as logistically it would be easier, and she seemed to be of the opinion that it would be too hard for me. So we did not go into types of counselling, althogh I think I would find it useful to know what a professional thought I needed.

I am just finding all this really hard. I think it has gone past my son and being suprised at seeing him. There's lots of other issues in my life at the moment now as well, and I just want to get it sorted. I like having a list and ticking things off as I do things. At the moment my list gets longer and more complicated.

I hate feeling needy and not in control. I feel like other people have the (professional) right to say what I should be doing. No doubt they would also read something into my use of brackets and inverted commas! (and exclamations marks!!!!!!!!!)

And I see I'm on the front page of MN. Is that bad or good??

sorry if I have hurt or offended you by seeming to label you as "depressed" - I appreciate that I have no right to label or diagnose anyone given that I have only professional but only personal knowledge. I know it feels like circles within circles - that you are worried just at how HVs/other professionals react to you, on top of the other stresses in your life; there's no easy answer to this other than to prioritise getting you better, over and above what these people may think of you. when you feel stronger, you will feel less concerned about what they think.

Re:lists - do you mean listing practical or emotional tasks? If you mean practical tasks, accept that housework etc takes a back seat to you learning to be happy again. Re:front page - IMHO possibly not the most sensitive thing to do, given that if you are feeling down, you could be upset by it. However I think it is a good thing that they are willing to feature emotional issues on the front page - the more information/awarenes the people have, the less stigma that will generally attach to mental health issues in society.

I know it is hard for you to believe at the moment, but you are being strong in seeking help, and admitting your problems to your GP, rather than just trying to hide until things reached rock bottom.

Is there anything much you enjoy doing atm? Do you enjoy reading books/going out for a meal/watching a video?

Would you be willing to take any ADs if that was recommended by the psych next week?

I had counselling - I wasn't strong when I went into it, but I'm a lot stronger since doing it. I think it can be incredibly helpful, particularly if you have had a traumatic experience that has left its mark on you.

Also, and please don't take this the wrong way, but considering the horrible start you two had, could you be suffering from PTSD rather than PND? It would make a lot of sense.

no, no, no M2S. Not at all offended. I am sure I probably am depressed, just hate the label. As usual am being inarticulate. I really do value your postings and sorry if I appeared to be rude.

As regards front page, not really bothered so don't worry on that score either.

Lists - practical lists mainly. trying to sort out the whole family's health. Although I do feel if the house was tidy and ironing done I would do more outside. feel guilty about sitting in garden or park if house is a mess - just the way I am.

not really sure what I enjoy at the moment. Just trying to chip away at problems.

Again probably oversensitive here, but now worried that I have offended you M2S (sorry Steven always think of you as seven!) , when actually I am very grateful you are commenting and helping with my sad life.

Don't always think the written word communicates the meaning very well. Will stop here as rambling

but just for me, no to ADs. my viewpoint, I know but for me I would feel it would make me worse. Not rational I know