Declining 8 week injections

[user1484580841]

Hi, has anyone declined the 5-1 jab at 8 week baby jabs? My daughter is due hers and after extensive research my partner and myself are not happy to let her have this so early on in her life and we have been looking into having them separately but are having difficulty sourcing these privately. Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks

Yes, jag is what we call vaccines up here in Scotland. I see others got in first though!

And I have crap eyesight because I had measles as a child.

Those who ask if the anti people have done their research - have you done your research for also? Or are you blindly going ahead? Genuine question.
I haven't said I am not vaccinating but I have some concerns.

No, I didn't blindly follow the herd, as you have insinuated Vixx. I am probably a lot older than you and have seen the effects of polio and have had measles, both of which I would not wish on anyone.

DD had loads of health issues as a baby so I had several conversations with loads of medical professionals. Funnily enough, not one of them recommended that DD didn't have her vaccinations.

I understand that some children cannot be vaccinated, but I don't understand when there is overwhelming scientific evidence that shows that mass vaccination works that some people believe some of the woo stuff spouted.

Why do you think that you don't hear of anyone getting polio these days? Why do you think that smallpox has been eradicated?

What will happen when you want to go abroad for a holiday to places where vaccinations are strongly recommended? Will you avoid these places?

I have a medical degree. Does that count as doing my research?

Without wanting to start a bunfight, I think Vixx meant that a great many people who criticise anyone who questions vaccines automatically assume that any negative 'research' must be from "woo" sites, and that these same people will often have never read a scientific paper themselves.

Of course that's not to say that there isn't dodgy anti-vax stuff out there, or that everyone following the schedule to the letter is doing so blindly without so much as reading the vaccine insert. Just that there are various levels of vigilance and understanding on both sides, and, indeed, a lot of people somewhere in the middle, like the op.

I love the posters who say they didn't get their kids vaccinated and they were all "fine". That would be because we all had our kids vaccinated! You relied on herd immunity! I knew a couple who lost their 14 year old child to measles because they didn't vaccinate. They now promote vaccination. If you don't vaccinate then quite frankly I think you are a fool.

Can anyone who hasn't vaccinated or plans not to vaccinate their baby/child/children please tell me what they would do if their child was placed in a nursery/ school class with a very unwell child who was immunosuppressed and deeply reliant on herd immunity?

Of course vix dp is a scientific researcher (I did a Pharmacology degree but a millon years ago)and we researched it at length. All of the evidence was that vaccination is beneficial to the vast majority of children.

We all make choices everyday from vaccinations and school to health and safety for our children every day of the op is happy with the risk level of delaying vaccinations then so be it.

Yes but we also condemn some. Would you leave a toddler alone in a house with an open fire? Or at the side of a busy road?

My daughter is due hers and after extensive research my partner and myself are not happy to let her have this so early on in her life and we have been looking into having them separately but are having difficulty sourcing these privately.

If your research really was extensive then you would understand why you are having difficulty sourcing them.

diphtheria

My mum spent 6 weeks in hospital with this.

tetanus

An exes grandfather was in hospital for months. It is also known as lock jaw, because all muscles can and do go into spasm, so much you cannot open our mouth. Helpful link to a picture of what it does to an adult before death
rebrn.com/re/sir-charles-bells-portrait-of-a-soldier-dying-of-tetanus-269379/

whooping cough (pertussis)

Someone has already said it took them, a (presumably) otherwise healthy adult 6 months to get over

polio

Causes disability and possible death, you can end up in an iron lung, well not your your dd.

Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type b)

This can cause meningitis, among other things.

But your 8 week old can beat all of those on her own can she?

Some people do have very good reasons not to vaccinate, but unless you have one or more of them you really should. Those who cannot be vaccinated rely on those of us who can being vaccinated.

And I have to include Penn and Teller

oops sorry wrong link

If a child is very immunosuppressed then TBH they are far more at risk from common illnesses (because they're around in great numbers) than things that are vaccinated against. When my child was exposed to rubella (by a vaccinated child incidentally - they're not 100%) we stayed in from the time the infectious period started - i.e. before the rash - luckily as it happens as he caught it and came out with it bang on the expected day. There is more than one way to be responsible. Every time they get a cold I check in their mouths for koplik's spots - largely to avoid accidentally exposing anyone else.

As it happens I didn't vaccinate my younger children because I didn't want two or more severely disabled children requiring 24 hour 2:1 care. It wasn't a hard decision for us and I believe it was the right one for our family (& I have a science PhD and I read original research without problem). We haven't exactly had people falling over themselves to help us with ds1 - I feel we do our civic duty - and do our best not to put anyone else at risk. However I will not sacrifice another child.

Vixx I have never done any research. I trust medical professionals and the NHS (and by default I guess, the government) to take these Decisons. I am a lawyer; I don't know much about medicine or how to critically examine research. I don't understand much of what I'd need to read (proper sources- not mentalist Facebook groups) so I don't do it.

Conversely, I don't do anything that the government don't include in their vax schedule such as men b or chicken pox because it works both ways. If they don't think it's worth it neither do I.

I think I'm fairly normal and sensible

The reason they are given so early is because they protect the child at the time of highest risk. Pertussis is a high risk disease for young babies with potential life threatening complications. It rarely causes serious complications in older children.
Why would you care so little for you child that you reject all medical advice and decide not to vaccinate? Pure stupidity.

There was a single tetanus vaccine available - Tetanol pur iirc manufactured by GSK. Most of the single vaccines are manufactured by the same companies that manufacturer the combined vaccines in the U.K. E.g. Rouvax (single measles vaccine) is manufacturered by sanofi Pasteur (manufacturer of pediacel (5-in-1). Quite often people assume that alternative vaccines = dodgy even though they've never looked into it themselves.

The majority of people accused of being anti-vaxx aren't totally against vaccinations (not are they stupid/Ill informed) - many have just delayed certain ones or have selectively vaccinated/used alternatives to those on the UK schedule.

It's also worth looking at the schedule. Depending on age, fewer vaccines may be required. E.g. If you read the pediacel leaflet - 2 doses can be given instead of 3 if you start at 3 months rather than 8 weeks. (Presumably due to less interference from maternal antibodies)

All you can do is read as much as you can from reliable sources and make the decision that you feel comfortable with. Good luck

Hard hat on op? Take your time to research. Don't be pressured or filled with fear. Start with each disease and each vaccine patient info leaflet. You aren't nuts. Medical professionals too decide to not vaccinate.

api.ning.com/files/z6oYvgD0qBGliPcJkjFWoiQ9wrSaze-q0zBWZ8yZsZdEtEveiWkW4Bw0dySRySKKgG5T9EHR4hchJb5zjvcDxPTR1CORFdA1/vacinationtype1sweeden.pdf

"The Medical Products Agency (MPA) in Sweden conducted a large study (61% of the population) investigating whether the Pandemrix vaccine also
caused, besides narcolepsy, other neurological and immune-related diseases [1]. It was concluded in the article ‘... we found no convincing evidence of a risk increase for selected neurological or immune related
diseases, except narcolepsy, in Pandemrix vaccinated compared with unvaccinated individuals’.

The same message was spread to the Swedish public via a press conference (26 March 2013), their website (26 March 2013) and an article in the Journal of the Swedish Medical Society (21 November 2013)."

"On request of disclosure of public documents, the MPA has now, 3 years later, confirmed that they removed 52 cases (14 unvaccinated/38 vaccinated) from the age group 10–19 years before data
analysis, an act of protocol violation as it was not given in the published study design protocol."

"The protocol violation made a great difference to the study outcome, a statistically significant increased risk turned into no statistically signifi-
cant association. Taking into account the 52 cases, the MPA now reports 26% more type 1 diabetes cases in vaccinated than in unvaccinated persons, a value which is statistically significant."

This kind of data manipulation is the reason why some people do not trust what they are told by the authorities. Note that there is no coverage of this in the UK press.

I am not anti vaccine - my children were fully vaccinated.

Op our baby boy had viral meningitis at 6 weeks, he made a full recovery thankfully and I know viral meningitis cannot be vaccinated against but seeing how ill he was prompted us to pay €500 for him to have the meningitis b vaccine(it wasn't on the schedule here at the time) and there is no way I would refuse anything that will protect him from any illness. Imagine if your little one picked up something that she could've been protected against while you decide what to do..

OP, if you are still reading, Mumsnet is not the place to find support for a non vaccine position. I was unable to PM you but if you want to, please do PM me and I am happy to discuss off line.

Vaccinate your child...