Thimerosil-Free Vaccines .. Help .. Anyone know where to get .. Jimjams? Tamum? Anyone?

[twiglett]

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(first time I've used the smiley!)

karen99, looked on the website of doh.gov.uk and did a search on mercury free vaccinations

www.advisorybodies.doh.gov.uk/jcvi/mins060204.htm

just wondered; in dh's practice a lot of "complaints" are sorted out by the practice manager, would it be worthwhile having a word with her/him?

Good idea lailag. I'll address it to her and my ds' gp.

Some useful sites I found today:
USA schedule
Australia schedule
NZ schedule

sorry I can't put in links yet and you probably know this already (I didn't) but there was a Lords debate 5 feb 2003 in which issue of Thimerosal came up.
Lord hodgson of Astley Abbotts called for it to be removed from vaccines forthwith.
Hansard..
www.publications.parliament.uk/cgi-bin/ukparl
As someone who is already worried about MMR I wish I had known about thimerosal.

Hi Unicorn, can't quite get that link up - is it complete? Cheers

www.publications.parliament.uk/cgi-bin/ukparl_hl?DB=ukparl&STEMMER=en&WORDS=adhd+&COLOUR=Red&STYLE=s&URL=/pa/ld200203/ldhansrd/vo030205/text/30205-10.htm#30205-10_spnew4

sorry!!!!!- if it doesn't work type ADHD and hansard in google - should find it.. v interesting Lords debate.

thanks!

Twiglett, not sure if this helps you or not, but it does have a paragraph on "Are there any children who should not receive DTaP?"

In my case, ds is 12mo on Tuesday!, and it says children over 6mo would have less of a reaction to DTaP than DTwP.
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Why is acellular DTP being used as a booster instead of the whole-cell DTP vaccine currently used for primary immunisation?
This is because the whole-cell DTP vaccine is more reactogenic in older children than in babies. The DTaP vaccine does not present this problem in older children. [14] Results from the UK and other countries show that local reactions and pyrexias occur less frequently after DTaP vaccine than after whole-cell DTP vaccine, especially when the immunisation is given after 6 months of age.
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Any NHS documentation that can be printed off and included in the letter must be of benefit.. HTH

Just found another similar doc here

twiglett: how did you find a private clinic local to you?

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Ah lovely thanks! It's finding somewhere local that's the trick, isn't it?

Okay, now I'm fuming, this is ridiculous.

Apparently, Infanrix is "not licensed for primary vaccinations" (is it, bollocks) and they're not prepared to administer it unlicensed. She also said she doubted I'd be able to find anywhere private so I said "oh, that's funny... the Desumo clinic here in Worcester advertises it on their website" and she got a bit flustered then.

Does anyone know if I can have Men C, Hib etc on the NHS on a different day to having the DTP vacs privately or do they have to be administered on the same day?

So cross I'm going to have to fork out for these. Can't really afford it after all the cranial osteopathy expenses recently.

They can be adminstered on a different day- but you may have to leave a gap if they're not done on the same day. If you're wondering which to get done first......

Well a baby isn't really at risk from diptheria (in the UK) or tetanus, but is at risk from whooping cough.

Hib - is most common in children under 2- especially those in childcare and/or not breasfed (they're not sure whether its being in childcare that ups the risk or not being bfed).

Meningitis C is incredibly rare in babies- it's more common in teenagers and young adults.

So hope that helps you to decide the order if you ned to leave a gap. I'd complain about the GP though- she's just being bloody minded.

Still angry. "Not surgery policy" my arse... so it's not surgery policy to act in the best interests of their patients?!!

DH wants to phone the surgery to shout at them . Difficult though when it's the most convenient surgery and they're otherwise very good. Don't want to rock the boat, which is a horrible position to be in.

Thanks jimjams. The nurse at the surgery didn't seem to think I need worry about the spacing on different days, but this is the same woman who couldn't even be arsed to read the stuff I'd printed off for her and didn't give a toss about my baby's safety, so I'm not holding that advice too highly... will ask the desumo clinic when I phone them.

If it's complicated getting it on different days then I can get all of them done at once privately, but that then costs around £120 each visit instead of £40.

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The arrogance of these doctors is breathtaking isn't it? Hope you manage to sort it out you 2.

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AFAIK it's no more jabs twiglett - it's just Infanrix instead of the one they'd normally give. I've spaced mine out more than they'd like though: dd had her first at 10 weeks and hasn't had her second yet (six months) and I know I must arrange it. They used to be spaced over a year IIRC but now they try to do them within 4 (?) months. If you let them, which I'm not.

twiglett- it shouldn't really involve any extra jabs. DTaP-hib combined can be given (although they prefer to give a separate hib for the first course). They often give DTwP, hib and men C separately anyway (in different legs). When ds1 was being made autistic at the grand old age of 8 weeks he was given dtwp and hib separately. And same thing happened at 12 weeks and 16 weeks. Sometimes they combine the different vaccines into one syringe, but I think once the volume gets too big they prefer to split it between the legs iyswim (because of bruising). IIRC the first jabs was combined into one syringe and ds1 had quite a big bruise- mum said the HV usually gave them as 2 jabs in separate legs. Men C hadn't been introduced then so he got that at 8 months.

The World Health Org issued a statement on thiomersal saying that it felt there was no increased risk.

WHO statement

It also says on the site that it carries on researching the topic (I guess in case new evidence comes up).

I'm not trying to be obtuse but just wanted to add another bit of research from a reputable source.

I actually thought it was them (the WHO) who had advised that the vaccines shouldn't contain thiomersal but it obviously wasn't.

Would be interested in their response to the new research from Hornig, Chian and Lipkin then (published last week - basically shows that mice with a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity show autistic type behaviours when exposed to thimerosil and times in the their development which correspond to the times that human babies are innoculated with DtwP). Also interestingly (from my pov) shows that the glutamate receptors and transporters in the brain are screwed - interesting as autistic children on the gfcf diet have to avoid MSG as well becuase of the glutamate (and I think that's why they have to avoid yeast extract and gelatine as well).

Wonder how long the research has to be around before anyone pays any attention to it? (I know the answer to that btw- they never will).

The official line from any authority is that thimerosil carries a "theoretical risk". The ONLY situation that I have heard of from someone official saying it is unsafe is the persistant rumour to do with the vetinary world (supposedly removed 10 years ago because of safety fears). I have no idea whether that is true though. Any vets on mumsnet?

AFAIK the only direct study - carried out on patients showing that thimerosil is safe dates from 1929- and all the subjects died.