Thimerosil-Free Vaccines .. Help .. Anyone know where to get .. Jimjams? Tamum? Anyone?

[twiglett]

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that's unclear sorry - i meant it is the same vaccination- no difference....

I'll ask my dh though things might ba different as we are in Scotland. He's out at some stupid health board meeting and goodness knows when he'll be home.

Good morning!

Asked dh when he got home last night and he was totally baffled as to why your doc is behaving. You are looking for Infarix (or maybe Infarix-Hib) and they are both listed in the BNF as suitable for the primary course of vaccinations. Doctors get these vaccines direct from the Health Authority so your GP should be getting them to give as preschool boosters and can prescribe them as he sees fit, including to infants.

If he wants to know where to order it from the address is :
Farillon Ltd
Ashton Road
Romford
Essex
RM3 8UE
01708 379000

But he would have to BUY it from them. THis would be ridiculous as he will have Infarix sitting in his fridge for preschool boosters.

My dh wonders if (1) he is just being bloody minded or (2) more likely, he just doesn't know that Infarix is aP, and knows nothing about Thiermosil, as my dh didn't until MN alerted us to it - doctors get no training in vaccines, they just give them!!

HTH

Off to take dd1 for her boosters today. Want me to swipe some for you? Oh no, it has to stay refrigerated!!

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from the department of health website...

The Committee was alerted to potential changes to the vaccines used in the routine UK childhood immunisation schedule.

The Committee recalled that it had also previously agreed to move from wholecell pertussis vaccines to acellular pertussis vaccines when the efficacy of acellular vaccines at least matched that of the currently available wholecell vaccine. This was due to the lower rates of adverse reactions reported with acellular pertussis vaccines, particularly in older age groups.

The Committee had also previously agreed with the advice from the CSM to move to thiomersal free vaccines when effective alternatives were available.

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Now that's an intereting line susanmt "doctor's get no training in vaccines - they just give them".

Twiglett I am about to send you the paper..... check your email.

well, I suppose doctors learn a bit about vaccines (which to give when) but not in much detail. The majority of doctors will never in their lives administer it thmeselves but leave it to hv/nurses. DH=GP has never given vaccins(o,well, except hepatitis to ds before going on holidays abroad). He just has to be in the practice in case of emergency/adverse reaction.
In fact when I mentioned it to him this afternoon about the mercury-containing/free vaccin dh admitted never have heard of the problem/debate.

The problem I have with it though is that if a TV doctor GP is interveiwed talking about vaccines they are treated as an expert. Or if you have doubts you are told to discuss it with your doctor.

I realised they aren't told much when I questioned my (locum) GP when trying to decide whether to get ds2 vaccinated. He couldn't answer any of my questions- and he hadn't read any of the recent research that I had read. Anyway thank f* we decided not to vaccinate ds2 given this latest research.

It would be nice if doctors were kept up to date on the debate, or if they admitted they didn't know much, or even better if they did try to read up a bit on stuff (like susanmt's dh- who sounds like a great GP). Actually I'm not moaning about mu GP as he's been very good and very accepting of our decision not to vaccinate. He jokes about it with me, and has never given me any hassle at all. Has also said he's happy to vaccinate with whatever if we decide in the future that we want some/all whatever.

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Infanrix AFAIK- I suspect the other is a spelling mistake.

Also comes combined wit hib- as Infanrix-hib- so check the spelling of that and you'll get the right one.

Lalaig - another GP's wife!! Haven't come across another on MN before.
Mine hadn't haerd of the debate about this until I mentioned it to him, I found out about it on Mumsnet and we made the decision to go thiermosil free with our dd2 adn he now offers Infanrix to parents in his practice.

We're looking forward to this weekend! Our new OOH arrangements start here then and we are seeing a 1/3 reduction in on call which we're REALLY looking forward to!

twiglett - hope you can persuade him. SOunds like he is a stubborn old goat really! Are there any other more relaxed GPs in the practice who could give it to you instead?

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About the training for GPs and reading the research - I think it is a case of too much to know, too little time. From what I know about my dh's list, he has so many diabetics, people with heart disease and lung problems and 2 terminal patients he is caring for at home and the business side of the practice to run (accounts, pharmacy etc) plus all the cr*p they get form the health board on a daily basis, plus teaching medical students, plus having some kind of a family life, tbh he just doesn't have the time to keep up to date with everything. If he read every update that came in he would never have time to see the patients. He tends, as I am sure a lot of doctors do, to skim things and file them in case he needs them. I know he relies on me to keep him up to speed on children's health issues, vaccines, breastfeeding etc, because I am interested. Who is looking into vaccines for us going travelling next spring? Me of course!
Vaccinating children is an important but actually exceptionally small part of a GPs workload, and its no wonder some of them are not up to date. It would be much more useful if HVs etc were up to speed on all this and so could advise, but IME HVs more than any other part of the health professions are influenced by their own opinions regardless of evidence (sorry to any HVs but I've not yet met one who knows the first thing about breastfeeding for example) so I suppose that might be asking too much of them!!

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If he refuses, complain to the PCT (? I think. As we are in Scotland the Health structures are different, here it would be to the HEalth Board but I think it is the PCT in England) , officially. THen I think he would give it pretty quick I would think.

Might be worth copying the letter to them now actually and putting that at the bottom of the letter. If he knows they know, he might not be so bloody minded!

Twiglett
I'm sorry if this is only half a story but my ds had thiomersal-free DTPa injections during winter 2001. The nurse just mixed the one they use for the pre-school boosters with some Hiberix. It was no big deal.

Oh twiglet, in one way I'm glad you started this thread as I've just had the same reaction about my ds today but in another way I'm sad for us both. I too am pro-vaccination but want to avoid thimerosil. I did not give him the vacc at 2mo but we thought we'd start in April when my ds was 9.5mo and the practice said 'no' and referred me to a paed, who we saw a month later and just this week has written to say 'no' and he recommends the standard jabs!! ARRRGHHH!!! I'm soooo UPSET about it. It's wasted three months and I wanted my ds to have atleast two lots before the summer.. who wants to have a temperature in this heat!

After reading your thread I'm going to take your stance and write to my GP too. I can't believe the practice nurse said 'well that's your decision' when I said he'll be left unvaccinated if you don't give him these jabs - IT'S HER DECISION if she wants to help us and give him these! Sorry to go on, I'm just so upset.

Lailag - do you have a link to the committee info you posted?

Susanmt - who is the PCT? (sorry for my ignorance)

Susanmt- to be honest I don't particularly expect GPs to be up to date on all the papers in the vaccination debate. I just wish that doctor's (not just including GP's here- recently had to bore a hospital doctor half to death to get him off my back) wouldn't assume that they know more about the debate than their patients. I haven't yet come across a dr (in real life- obvoiously there are plenty out there) who has read as much as me. So I get annoyed when I get the patronising "there's not evidence" comment.

Primary Care trust Karent99.

Thanks jimjams

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Hi Twiglett...

I'm up to speed with why we want DTaP (thanks to Jimjams (and my brother) many months ago!) and I thought it would be quite straight forward in issuing it, especially as I know of other people on MN who have received it via the NHS. I have even pointed my gp/nurse to this page which clearly says it can be given as a routine immunisation. For some reason they are not accepting this! We also want Inactivated Polio as this is what is routinely given in USA and NZ, but again they are objecting to that (again it is on the paper above!).

Have read your letter and I may take some points from it (thanks! ) but I must admit it's much nicer than what I was going to write! But I've always had a temper so must take some pointers from you on this one!

Doesn't it just get you so upset, especially as you are trying to do what's best for your little one and they're trying to 'force' you to give them something you don't want to [rant over now, must calm down!]