Abortion rate highest ever - I'm sorry I just don't buy the reason suggested for this...

[CountessDracula]

"But pregnancy advice groups said the figures probably reflected poor access to contraceptive services"

What utter tosh

You can buy condoms in many loos in clubs and pubs. In any chemist or 24hour shop.

You have access to family planning clinics and doctors with free contraception

You can buy the morning after pill over the counter ffs

Shouldn't people take a bit more responsibility and get themselves to these places and get some bloody contraception?

I cannot see a case where I'd rather go through a whole 9 months of pregnancy, actually go through birth and then give up the baby versus having a simple procedure early on in a pregnancy.

I have to say I feel the same, foot.

I've never had an abortion, though.

I think that is the prevailing attitude now
footinslug, hence the raise in the abortion rates. Which if you don't see abortion as a problem, isn't a problem.

I've said before on MN that I understood far more viscerally why women opt for abortion when I became semi-accidentally pregnant. You're suddenly faced with the reality of how your life will change and it's absolutely terrifying. I made one choice. Others make others.

I was a prime candidate for the Marie Stopes statistics, actually. Absolutely prime.

yes, I must admit MI, it was on my list of options

For me, I didn't consider it an option when I fell accidentally pregnant.

But my circumstances were such that I knew I could count of my family and on the baby's father for support, including financial, even if our relationship as romantic partners was too unstable to continue.

I do understand and accept, however, that everyone's circumstances are different, and therefore everyone's choice may be different.

And that it's really not my place or my business to judge that for someone else.

I've never had to make a choice in that way motherinferior, so my anti abortion stance is only hypothetical.

I know many good women who've had abortions.

I've done many things myself that I regard as 'wrong'.

So I do try not to judge individuals.

But I can't pretend my gut feeling, and intellectual reasoning doesn't tell me that abortion is wrong.

why do you think it's wrong though smiley (out of interest)?

do you regard the MAP as just as wrong too?

That was the interesting thing - my guts told me something completely different. They told me that I could, if I wanted, step off this path and stopped panicking.

I did, as it happened, take that pregnancy to term. My older daughter was six last week.

Well Footslug, I just can't get away fron the it's taking a life belief.

I do then struggle with the 'so is life from conception' debates. I went to get a coil a couple of years ago, and backed out as I knew intellectually it was inconsistent, but if I'm honest it didn't really 'feel' wrong.

But then I'm a veggie who eats fish, so I'm pretty half arsed with my moral integrity, and on this issue I haven't been tested.

Maybe I've been more careful as it's a decision I don't want? I don't know.

It just feels like taking a life to me.

I feel uneasy about discussing this, as I do not want to cause further upset to women struggling with their own decisions.

As I said I avoid this converstaion in RL for that reason, as my closest friends have all had abortions.

Many of whom are much better women than I.

Should I also mention..I'm a catholic??

Do you think that's relevant

This is a long thread, can someone summarise?

I suspect I'm with MI, Slug et al.

lol (it's foxinsocks here in case you hadn't realised)

I'm not the judgemental type but was just interested in your opinion.

Although I considered abortion, when push came to shove, I found I couldn't go through with it at the time but I'm still extremely grateful that it could have been an option and that women in this country have access to these services and can use them when they feel the need to.

I tell you what's offensive paula, it's sitting in a doctor's office, having found out you are pregnant as a result of contraceptive failure, absolutley sure you do not want this baby and being lectured by your doctor who refuses to refer you for an NHS abortion, not because you do not fit the legal criteria (which incidentally I did) but because it was against his religion.

At no point was I treated as an adult capable of making decisions for myself. My medical history was not taken into account, nor were my beliefs or concerns. His attitude was "Sod the consultants, I don't believe in it therefore I will force you to have this child". And the really shameful thing is that this is a perfectly legal thing for him to do.

A Jehova's witness can refuse to have a blood transfusion on religious grounds, but I was not allowed an abortion because I was not given my religious rights. i.e. the right to not believe in any of that woman hating stuff!

So I had to fork out 400 quid which I could ill afford, to have a medical proceedure carried out which was my legal right to have done under the NHS for free.

And don't start on the "Poor women who have miscarried" guilt trip either. Did it not occur to you that some of us who have had abortions have also miscarried wanted babies?

Why should your doctor have to do something he thinks is morally wrong?

In the case of the miscarriage I was refering to the people on the thread who were boasting that they had their abortions without a care in the world.

We were not boasting paula, were were merely pointing out that the "All women are traumatised by abortion" propaganda is patently untrue.

As to why a doctor should go against his moral beliefs - perhaps because he is paid by the NHS to provide a service. Picking and choosing which services he refers to based on morality is denying people access to those very services they have paid for via their taxes. If he couldn't face doing that then he was in the wrong job.

Lawyers defend people they think are guilty. Teachers teach the unteachable. Doctors should treat patients based on clinical need. Thats what we pay them to do.

because, for some people, abortion is absolutely the right decision and does not cause psychological damage

Defence Lawyers are hardly the height of morality. Patients have the right to go to another doctor if they don't like it.

Again I will say that I deal with women all the time who have been traumatised by their abortions. Its not a myth at all. Loads of women have deep remorse and grieve horribly. They don't get to publically because they feel like they don't have a right to because they chose to do it. Not everyone is so flippant about it.

Without a care in the world hmmm
I found it an easy choice to make. it was a process that I knew I had to go through, it was a relief when it was over. Yes I wish I never had that choice to make, but regrets, not one.

I think it's interesting that STD's amongst youngsters are sky rocketing as is teen pregnancy as are abortion rates.

Is it parents? Schools? Society breakdown?

And not everybody is traumatised by it. Far from it.

There is a time limit when it comes to terminating a pregnancy. Changing doctors may not be an option. Whatever you think about defence lawyer's morality (and I know quite a few really lovely ones) they do the job they are paid to do. Unlike some doctors.

How would you feel if you needed an operation on your foot and your doctor refused to refer you because "Feet are against his morals"? It's absurd, just as absurd as punishing women because of a set of beliefs they do not hold. It's religious terrorism.

i think the word nonchalence was used by someone earlier and i think that just about sums it up for me

OF COURSE women should have the right to an abortion if that is what they need....

However.,, the hideous numbers of babies being aborted shows that women in this country have the wrong attitude towards sex and contraception

If you dont want a baby -use contraception or abstain

If contraception fails seek medical advice or buy morning after pill

Dont wait for till its too late for the cheap and simple solution and then expect tea sympathy and an nhs abortion

like I said:

smug, judgemental, entirely devoid of any understanding of social, economic, psychological or emotional factors...and generally coming from a totally simplistic, kneejerk and reactionary place.

What do you suggest should be done about the rising rate Notanotter? Harder to access abortions I expect.

Perhaps sex education in primary schools: full on, sex education to all ten year olds across the board would be a good place to start? Then free unlimited condoms available in nightclubs, GPs and chemists?

Much more than this a culture that promotes a less penetrative-centric form of sexuality: secondary school sex education and social studies should include a lot of stuff about oral sex, masturbation and other forms of sexual stimulation that do not involve penis in vagina.

I think that having an unwanted child is a terrible thing, both for the child and for the mother. Far far worse than abortion. I think that might be where we differ.

And the psychological repercussions of adoption are far reaching and painful both for mother and child, which is not to say that it can't be a wonderful thing, but certainly isn't the solution to this problem.

I think slug has hit the nail on the head by equating a foot operation with a termination. That's the attitude many people have and therefore the rate is not suprisingly sky high.