Abortion rate highest ever - I'm sorry I just don't buy the reason suggested for this...

[CountessDracula]

"But pregnancy advice groups said the figures probably reflected poor access to contraceptive services"

What utter tosh

You can buy condoms in many loos in clubs and pubs. In any chemist or 24hour shop.

You have access to family planning clinics and doctors with free contraception

You can buy the morning after pill over the counter ffs

Shouldn't people take a bit more responsibility and get themselves to these places and get some bloody contraception?

my son is 15 Bassmama

As did I when i found out I was pregnant. I made the decision to keep the child.

But a few months later I fell pregnant again, its a long story that I wont go into now.

This time it was hugely inappropriate for me, and would have been terribly unfair on my DS so because of this (and other reasons), I had to choose termination.

Its not an easy option and not one that I, and im sure many other women, took first time.

I believe that based on the circumstances I made the most responsible choice.

No NotAnOtter, I'm saying that there has been a trade off between reliability and other issues.

"I would not make those mistakes again".

But your contraception could fail. Not all unplanned pregancies are the result of a mistake. They're the result of failed contraception. And though they may only be 1% or whatever it is, translated into figures, that's a hell of a lot of women.

This is a very interesting thread and one I am reading with mixed feelings. I had a termination when I was 17. I did not want a baby and my parents were not in a position to offer help if I had chosen to go ahead. I was an absolute idiot and it was a classic case of wanting a boy to like me so agreeing to sex without contraception.

It is not something I am proud of, and at certain points in my life (2 mc) I have felt more guilt about it than others. However, I am 100% sure I made the right decision. Im sure to those who have not been in the position adoption seems like an option, but I try to imagine now how I would feel knowing that somewhere out there I had a child. Maybe it is selfish but I would find that imeasurably worse than the sitation I am in now. It would also affect my parents who would have a granchild somewhere who they did not know. I would hate to think that without access to termination a lot of people would still have been paying for my mistake some 17 years later.

I recently read an interesting book called Freakonomics. It offered the point of view that in the US the crime rate had fallen very suddenly and had coincided with the 15 year anniversary of the legalisation of abortion. The theory was that unwanted babies were more likely to grow up to commit crime therefore a whole generation of potential criminals had been stopped from even being born.

I am not saying I agree with this but it is very thought provoking, and made me realise that the debate about abortion and its long term effects are greater than just the woman who is pregnant.

Kezza yes that is thought provoking

Caligula - I am sure contraception fails - 185,000 abortions a year. So I would maybe hazzard a guess at doubling that for those who decide to keep the baby or miscarry it.

370,000 accidents?

I feel demonised on this thread. I am not putting forward a counter argument to those who believe in the right to choose. I simply say where once it was the fear mentality that stopped women getting pregnant now it is the 'F* it' mentality causing these abortion rates

NaO I do see what you are saying. Just because I am pro choice I dont like to think of people choosing abortion as a viable option alongside other methods of contraception.

It is a difficult one as it is something that needs to be available, and due to its nature you cant make it so hard to obtain that it puts poeple off, but neither should it be so easy that it becomes commonplace and not that big a deal.

If all abortions had to be paid for privately then perhaps those women who do use abortion as a form of contraception would think twice and go for the cheaper option.

I really doubt there are women out there logically, calmly saying, oh, sod it, we won't bother with a condom, let's just go without, I'll just have an abortion if I get pregnant.

And I'd hate to think of women being forced to have a baby they didn't want because they couldn't afford an abortion. I know that's the reality in a lot of places, but it's a stupid reality.

Yes, Countess Dracula, I do think people should take a bit more responsibility and get themselves to these places and get some bloody contraception.

In my GPs surgery there is a poster on every door saying "FREE condoms available here". Access to contraception is better than ever, education about contraception is better than ever, access to emergency contraception is better than ever ... the only reason that abortion rates have increased to shockingly in the very recent past is that some people take stupid risks knowing that the back-up of abortion is there for them. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever about that and it makes me feel utterly depressed.

Sorry you feel demonised NaO, I don't have any objections to any arguments you're putting forwards, of course you've got the right to argue whatever position you want, it's just that I think you (in common with lots of other posters on this thread) have an I've-never-had-an-accident-or-an-error-of-judgement-when-I'm a-grown-up-therefore-anyone-else-who-has-should-have-known-better-tone. Sorry I just find that irritating and lacking in humility.

I've never had a serious car accident for which I've been liable either, but I don't think anyone who has, had it because they're idiots all the time. Sometimes people make mistakes. People on motorways sometimes drive too fast or change lanes just that second too early, or they weren't concentrating to the extent they should have been, and they cause accidents. I don't approve of them not concentrating or driving within the speed limit, but I still think the NHS should patch them up to the best of their ability, not tell them that they'll just have to live with their injuries for the rest of their life because that's the natural consequence of their mistake and that because they were idiotic at that particular time on that particular day, the world should see them as total idiots forever.

Are there any stats on the ages of those having the terminations in this report?

Having been in the situation of having an accidental, unplanned pregnancy myself, and later miscarrying, I can't imagine taking away a woman's choice as punishment for contraceptive failure - I'm not even going to call it her mistake b/c no one gets herself pregnant.

I've never been offended by people who get pregnant and had abortions and I had a miscarriage.

How odd? I mean, shit like that happens all the time. Convicted criminals have won the Lotto.

What a waste of life to spend energy getting worked up about stuff over which you have no control.

The idea of forcing a person to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want b/c she's been naughty really strikes me as a very medieval way of thinking.

Agree with Daisy - make people pay for abortions and continue to offer free contraception. It is a harsh and depressing reality that there are too many who, when 'caught in the moment' (i.e in the back alley outside the nightclub at 3am with a bloke they met an hour ago) do not pause to consider the consequences. They don't consciously think 'Oh, I can always have an abortion', but they sub-consciously know it is an option. This, however, poses problems for those in genuine need of free services for whom abortion isn't simply an alternative method of contraception. I know one woman who had 3 abortions during her youthful years (without giving any of them a great deal of thought), and now yearns (at the age of 40) for a baby of her own, but ironically can't seem to get pregnant. Does it cause even more problems in later life for those who use it over and over when young? I suppose there is 'no evidence to suggest it does', but my friend would probably beg to differ.

i believe in the right to chose- i know i do becuase i found myself in a position a couple of years ago where ithought i was pregnant even though dh has a vasectomy. it turned out i missed my AF becuase of stress - but i seriously had an eveniong where i came to the conclusion i couldn't start all over - i just couldnt. i would have had an abortion.

that being said i think its nice to think that everyone is as considered and informed and emotionally incapable ( guilt, anger, depression) however out here in my world i have anecdotal evidence that backs up my premis that the rise in figures is ddown to women using abortion as a form of contraception becuase they ( for whatever many varied reasons) do not use long term contraception.

all i can say is hurry along with the male pill giving our sons a choice in the matter too.

I don't like the idea of forcing people to pay for their terminations because it punishes the poor and working poor, whose lives are already hard enough as it is.

I mean, that's right along the lines of, 'Well, you drank/smoked/are overweight and got a disease. Since you were bad, you'll have to pay for your treatment.'

First, I am glad that we have abortion as a choice.

However, I find a figure of 185,000 pretty shocking. A good deal of these are no doubt contraceptive failure but some must be for a variety of other reasons which could have been prevented if contraception had been used.

This also implies that these same women are at risk of infection of STDs which is not only a terrible shame for them, their future fertility and well-being, and that of their family, but it's also costing the NHS a good deal of money that could be better spent elsewhere. In saying this I am NO WAY implying that abortion should not be free and freely available. But if the causes were identified and addressed, it would benefit the health system as a whole.

I think there is a good deal to be said about low self-esteem in women. We do have the education and we do have access to contraception so why are so many still risking their health?

And last, I do know one woman who has had 7 abortions and so I judge her to be using it as contraception (she laughs in the face of her GP telling her off but he actually can't not refer her, she's also been sent to a counsellor, to no avail). She also has 2 DCs. But I do believe she represents a tiny minority.

The disease risk is REALLY concerning, especially with ones like chlamydia and HPV on the rise.

I have a very dear friend who contracted chlamydia from a long-term boyfriend and had NO idea until she suffered an ectopic pregnancy as the result of scarred Fallopian tubes from the chlamydia.

I have HPV myself, it's VERY common.

And responsible for over 90% of all cases of cervical cancer.

Expat, there are some stats in my post further down (footinslug) - they are from last year (the latest I could find).

You can't make people pay for abortions - that's just asking for backstreet abortions to become commonplace.

This view that EVERYONE is having abortions because they are lackadaisical with contraception is just wrong - yes, I'm sure it's a subset but it doesn't apply to everyone.

And it would be utterly fabulous if men (and boys) could be made to feel equally responsible for contraception but I really am in cloud-cuckoo land with that one....

No time to read whole thread but - I've been amazed by the number of perfectly adult, well-educated people I know who have risked sex without a condom - some have got pregnant unintentionally, others have risked STDs. An ex of mine told me he was having great sex with a woman who we both knew slept around a lot, and it was extra-great because she didn't insist on condoms - hurrah - this man is in his 30s and has a phd. Many couples I know have kids who were accidentally concieved - makes me want to say "Umm... you do know about contraception, don't you?"

I did it once too, when on the rebound and depressed, and I don't know why but I just didn't have the energy to insist on a condom when the man was begging me for unprotected sex (though I did insist on withdrawal) - and I wonder if a lot of women have unprotected sex simply out of low self-esteem and not wanting to make a fuss or have men not like them, while men want it for sexual reasons and bugger the consequences - especially in flings and one-night stands.

conceived!

Also, paid-for abortions will be later, won't they ? A good number of women will worry about the cost, especially since it is often very young/poor women in this position.
Most people seem later as worse.

I don't see the logic of requiring women to pay for abortion.
If you genuinely believe that abortion is wrong, then charging people doesn't make it right.
I wonder if any woman has received the "counselling" for MAP or abortion and changed her mind ?

That process seems to me to be a wasteful and embarassing sop to the anti-abortion lobby than a genuine attempt to inform.
I've been given drugs for me and my kids that if used the wrong way would kill stone dead. Yet all one gets is a leaflet in the tiniest sized text possible.