Abortion rate highest ever - I'm sorry I just don't buy the reason suggested for this...

[CountessDracula]

"But pregnancy advice groups said the figures probably reflected poor access to contraceptive services"

What utter tosh

You can buy condoms in many loos in clubs and pubs. In any chemist or 24hour shop.

You have access to family planning clinics and doctors with free contraception

You can buy the morning after pill over the counter ffs

Shouldn't people take a bit more responsibility and get themselves to these places and get some bloody contraception?

i agree slug

At the risk of repeating myself .

Would not the government be better spending its money on drug research than educating people and giving out free contraception as what the majoriy of you seem to be saying is that it is FAILED contraception and not the lack of use thereof that causes these figures?????

because no contraception will ever be 100% effective

there's no breakdown of those figures - we don't know how many were that abortion pill or terminations because of abnormalities or danger to the mother's life

Governments do not spend money on drug research, drug companies do.

Why improve contraception in an already crowded market, especially as trials are ethical nightmares (can't test them on unsuspecting 3rd world women any more) when there is money to be made in the MAP and RU486?

you get me wrong slug

as a sexually active 39 year old i have had one accidental pregnancy - caused by my own negligence.

the other 22 years i managed to avoid failed contraception

OK - here are the government stats for abortions in 2005 (the latest I could find).

Key facts
In 2005, for women resident in England and Wales:

the total number of abortions was 186,400, compared with 185,700 in 2004, a rise of 0.4%
the age-standardised abortion rate was 17.8 per 1,000 resident women aged 15-44, the same as in 2004
the abortion rate was highest, at 32.0 per 1,000, for women in the 20-24 age group
the under-16 abortion rate was 3.7 and the under-18 rate was 17.8 per 1,000 women, both the same as in 2004.
84% of abortions were funded by the NHS; of these, just over half (52%) took place in the independent sector under NHS contract
89% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks gestation; 67% were at under 10 weeks
medical abortions accounted for 24% of the total compared with 19% in 2004
1,900 abortions (1%) were under ground E, risk that the child would be born handicapped
Non-residents:

in 2005 there were 7,900 abortions for non-residents carried out in hospitals and clinics in England and Wales (8,800 in 2004)

MAP isn't 100% as I can testify.

I think there are too many "bad" myths about going for the morning after pill. I went (possibly over cautiously) after 2 condom slippages with a LT partner ... they didn't even come off inside but in both cases my GP & the local pharmacist were lovely. The GP even praised me for being so cautious & then went on to say that he was glad he wasn't young anymore with all the nasty things about.

Getting pregnant in my opinion is far less of a concern then getting infections :-S

footinslug - i find those figures shocking

I don't find them shocking
I just wonder why they are rising

These debates never get anywhere. Some people view abortion as an operation like any other and others see it as taking a life. The ones who suffer are the ones who regard it as taking a life and still feel they have to go ahead.
It worries me though, that as a society we have become so blase about this that it is seen as a method of contraception. Whatever side you're on I do think this has a moral dimension that routine NHS procedures don't have.

I agree mog.
I am not anti abortion per se
I just think these figures mirror the moral lassitude to contraception.

A problem that really needs to be addressed

Many feel it doesn't have a moral dimension at all though Mog.

I agree that one side is never going to convince thr other on this deabte though. It all always based on an inherent assumption the other side does not accept.

Abortion right or wrong wasn't CD's OP though was it?
I think she was more interested in the causes and in particular the claim that lack of access to contraception could be blamed.

I'd agree with her initial opinion: there is more contraception than ever, and more sex education than ever so those old justifications don't stand up IMO.

It's more subtle and complex, more to do with attitude, but identifying that attitude is not simple either.

maybe it's a population rise - who knows

I certainly don't think it's as easy as saying it's down to poor access to contraceptive services though

(at least in those figures I linked to, 67% were before 10 weeks so not very late decisions)

To sayt doesn't have a moral dimension is the bit I struggle with though. Because if it doesn't then it is just the same as say a wisdom tooth extraction. But if the operation didn't take place there would be a human being at the end. I'm not coming down on either side here. These are not black and white issues. But I think if we totally rule out that there is a moral issue to this then we lose something as a society.

Well if you are interested in the moral dimension maybe it would be an idea to start a thread about that point rather than arguing it on a thread that has nothing to do with that!

but for some people, they don't view it as killing something or ending a life, especially when the abortion is carried out early on in the pregnancy

you could argue (on that cause) as ppb does, that every act of sex should then be sacred (or a moral issue) because theoretically, as no contraception is 100%, a child/life could be conceived.

why do I have every sperm is sacred running around my head now...

I jsut went downstairs and weirdly on the radio there was an advert saying STDs are spreading fast, use a condom

lol - I had that song in my head too (nearly quoted a line but thought it was a bit bad taste for this thread!)

I find the rise in STDs v worrying tbh. I also wonder whether after the initial AIDS shock (that meant most sensible people reached for condoms) whether people have become blase about STDs - we don't hear many shock stories these days (like we used to), only about how there are lots of silent STDs with few obvious initial symptoms that can affect your fertility.

fox- The way people view things and the way things are can be completely different. This is my point. People may view it as not ending a life, but it can't but be that. If the operation didn't take place a life would exist.
This is why I say it has a dimensio different to a routine operation. It has whether we like it or feel it.

Please Mog, this thread is not about this

Start a new thread if you want to debate this point please otherwise the original point of this thread will be lost

why should you look at the 'what would result if you didn't do it' to come up with ending a life? Surely, it's whether you consider what's inside you as 'life' or not at the time?

oh fuck this thread
I give up

sorry CD - couldn't not retort

But it is relevant CD. You were asking why people are not accessing contraception.
the point was raised that some people see abortion as a form of contraception.
And then we were going on to discuss why this is on the increase and my arguement was that it is seen as a routine operation by many. And I just question if this is so.

Many threads on mn stray from the original point and that's just what happens in online chat.