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Original poster

Anyone got any experience of encropsis (?spelling), constipation and seepage?

41 replies

Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 11:53

DS1 has been trying to pass a stool since 4.30am. He seems to be in quite a bit of pain (can't stand quite a lot of the time, sort of kneeling on all 4s). He now has kind of what looks like water falling out (sorry tmi I know), with some frothy bits in. He did pass more diarrhoea type stuff earlier, but it's become increasingly like a constant drip of water.

Any advice please- anything I can use to get him moving? It will be very difficult to get him examined anywhere (he's severely autistic).

OP posts:
christmas2NDTIMEmistletoenwine · 07/12/2006 12:08

Poor boy!

I think if he's in so much pain and not making any progress you really need to get him to the docs for a suppository or enema to do the job. Once the faeces is low down in the bowel (in the rectum) no oral meds or dietary changes will help.

If you could get the nurses to give him a suppository it would soften the hard stool and help it pass.

I know this may be very difficult given his autism, but I can't think what else will help.

Is he regularly constipated? Does he take laxatives? If not perhaps he should in future.

Hope he passes it soon.

Original poster
Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 12:29

there's no way I can get to the drs as I have the other 2 with me. It's just not possible- I can't go out with the 3 of them when they're all well. TBH an enema wpould be an impossibility unless th staff were very trained in autism, a suppositry might be a possibility if I can get one from somewhere.

I'm beginning to suspect he has quite severe bowel problems. The expert in all this was Andy Wakefield who of course has goine to the States. He had expoerience treating severely autistic children. i don't see how anyone without that experience could do anything with ds1. last time he went to a and e they coouldn;t even take his blood pressure.in fact they couldn't even get nurofen into him.

OP posts:
themulledSNOWMANneredjanitor · 07/12/2006 12:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

happybiggirl · 07/12/2006 12:37

Message withdrawn

Clarinet60 · 07/12/2006 12:41

Hi jimjams, no advice, but I feel for you. Have you got a paed nurse you could phone? We have one and she's really good. Agree with you re Wakefield, but I bet if you emailed him via the address on one of his papers, or website, you'd get a response.
Hope he gets sorted soon.

MyTwoChocolateCoinsWorth · 07/12/2006 12:43

are you able to get anything into him? my 2 have regular bouts of what we delicatly refer to as 'toilet trouble'. we give them lactalose (sp) at the first sign that they are going to have a problem - which is smeared pants and a bit of seepage. if we dont start with the lactalose, within a few days they seem to lose control / sensation and end up going in their pants!

ds2 is quite cooperative, but ds1 is something to behold, sometimes he'll take meds but when he decides not to dh has him in a sort of a one armed headlock while im astride his legs to stop him twisting, reaching to pinch his nose closed while dh uses his free hand to put syringe to side of mouth and put meds in drop by drop - any more at a time and he'll spit! it can take half an hour to give him the dose and hours to calm him down! (and a quart of gin for us!!!) i know it sounds too cruel to even think about, but we tried everything to get him to take meds before this last resort! dont know if that would work at all for you but just trying to help. xx

MyTwoChocolateCoinsWorth · 07/12/2006 12:45

oh, forgot to add, i know that doesnt help in this constip. crisis, but its more of a prevention for long term.

would they sedate him to carry out very important med stuff? ds1 had to have this help once. they gave him somthing that made him drowsy before sawing off his bodycast.

jampots · 07/12/2006 12:49

jimjams im sure if you go to teh chemist they will give you some glycerin suppositories or how about popping him in a nice warm soapy bath - that can help

drosophila · 07/12/2006 12:51

MY friend had a very similar probelem with her boy and she had to give a suppository which unblocked him and then later he had a huge accident in Sainsburys. How long has he been constipated?

She got the suppository from chemist. I guess if anyone is going to have success with inserting a Sup it will be you. Have you tried all the usual suspects - Laxatives Prune Juice etc.

Original poster
Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 16:10

OK he still hasn't gone. My mum (a nurse) turned up with various bits and pieces include a glycerine suppository- couldn't get it into him. He has had a bath, and lots of fluids. I don't know when he last went, haven't paid much attention because he has been failry regular recently. I'm pretty sure he went at the weekend.

The trouble with lots of these things is that they contain things that just don't do him any good. This is my fault though as I've let the biomed stuff slip because it became so difficult to get the supplements etc into him. He could find them in anything and we can't hold him down anymore (used to when he was younger but physically can't manage it now, not even dh).

OP posts:
saggarmakersbottomknocker · 07/12/2006 16:53

Has he gone yet jimjams?We have always used movicol for dd. They are sachets that you dissolve in water - not sure if you'd be able to get him to take it. There's different doses for chronic constipation and for impactation.

Is your Gp understanding enough to prescribe over the phone.Is there someone who could go up and collect it for you?

Original poster
Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 18:46

my mum left some movical but it's adult strength - says not for children under 12- I was thinking of using a 1/4 dose or something!

My old GP would have, but we swapped drs last week (not through choice the surgery was shutting down). He was excellent and very understanding about ds1. The new surgery don't even know him, or anything about him.

He still hasn't gone, although the last lot of overflow looked more promising. He looks shattered poor thing he's been up for so long now.

OP posts:
christmas2NDTIMEmistletoenwine · 07/12/2006 19:26

Your poor babe.

Do you think you could pop the suppository in while he's sleeping? Cover it with some vasaline and gently push it in?

I know I'd wake up with a start if someone stuck their finger up my bum but I would imagine he's already in so much discomfort he may not notice.

If you padded his bed up, to catch leakage, or woke him to sit on the loo after 20 minutes or so it may work.

Sorry, but I'm clutching at straws for your boy.

drosophila · 07/12/2006 19:34

Has he ever been sedated?

christmas2NDTIMEmistletoenwine · 07/12/2006 19:41

Has your son been diagnosed as having encropesis?

Original poster
Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 19:54

Not dxed no, although have to say it does tend to go with autism. Managed to get in contact with a friend's dh who is a gastroenterologist and he said it sounds like foecal impaction. He's curled up on all 4's in bed at the moment- he's so tired. He's had another hot bath. My friend's dh said the best thing would be an enema if he would accept it, but I just don't think he will (well I know he won't- he'd have to be held down).

OP posts:
happybiggirl · 07/12/2006 19:56

Message withdrawn

christmas2NDTIMEmistletoenwine · 07/12/2006 20:03

He must be in so much pain.

What will you do?

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 07/12/2006 20:07

The adult movicol is pretty much double strength of the paed stuff jimjams and at 5 they can have up to 4 sachets on the first day I think. Half a sachet shouldn't do any harm but it's not a particularly fast fix. Dd still takes the paed strength because the potassium can cause her problems.

Your poor boy.

Original poster
Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 20:10

Thank you saggar- that's helpful. He's asleep curled up on all 4's. The first time in 3 years that he has gone to sleep in his room without gates up and without having all the lights in the house off. The question of course is how long for.

I'm off to check out the Thoughtful House webpage (Andy Wakefields new home).

OP posts:
jampots · 07/12/2006 21:05

jimjams - you may find it comes out onits own in the night - that once happened to ds

Original poster
Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 21:54

probably a good thing we put a nappy on him then! I think I would be kind of relieved to be honest. Really don't want another day like today.

OP posts:
jampots · 07/12/2006 22:00

whilst he's asleep can you smear some oil around his anus? not a nice job i know but i imagine some of the problem is trying to keep it in if its hurting. Also rubbing his tummy in a clockwise motion could help to stimulate the bowel - ive done it all im afraid as my ds suffers from chronic constipation

Original poster
Jimjams2 · 07/12/2006 22:23

He woke up- got rid of some more- mostly over the bathroom floor. it is going to be a long night isn't it. And he is exhausted poor thing he just wants to stay asleep.

Bleaching the bathroom before bed I think.

OP posts:
drosophila · 08/12/2006 08:02

At least he got rid of some. Do you think it's enough to get things moving? Hope he is OK. My friend sees a consultant for this and her son is on a diet of liquid parrafin and senekot which he is now gradually being weaned off. Not sure how successful it is in the long run but it does keep him regular.

Hope it is a better day today.