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Original poster

Opting out of vaccinations. Is this normal?

82 replies

CarmenMonoxide · 01/10/2015 09:44

My dd had a fairly long absence from school due to ilness last year.
Apparently during this time her year had the cervical cancer vaccination.
she has told me they are having phase 2 next week and her name is down on the list for having it. I have to write a letter if she isn't having it.
I thought you had to give consent for it, not the other way around?

OP posts:
bringmelaughter · 02/10/2015 21:19

This outlines why Caron2015 is talking complete rubbish re consent www.gponline.com/dilemma-mother-refuses-hpv-vaccine-child/palliative-end-of-life-care/cancer/article/921299

If a Fraser competent minor refuses consent but their parent consents then the clinician will not give the vaccine.

Fraser competence is not solely used in relation to vaccines but in many other areas of medicine. It is absolutely right that a minor who had been assessed as competent should have autonomy over their body even if that goes against the wishes of their parent who is often not in the best position to assess whether their child is competent to make a decision (and I say that as a parent myself).

The slating of school nurses on here as bullying, etc is interesting coming from people who seem to be saying that competent children's wishes should be overruled by parents.

didyouwritethe · 02/10/2015 22:18

How can you possibly say that a 12-year-old girl is competent to decide such an important matter? Where will she get her info from?

JoeyRead · 02/10/2015 22:28

Hi Cote - who are you and why are you being so rude to everyone? You have an agenda here it seems. I can assure you that I am only one mum and not posing as mutiple people. I have reported you too. Most interesting. If anyone thinks Cote is being rude please report. Maybe good manners should be adhered to here methinks.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 02/10/2015 22:37

Cote is an MN regular and has been for years.

The rest of you...hmm.

How can you possibly say that a 12-year-old girl is competent to decide such an important matter?

Please look up Gillick competency which says some 12 year olds are competent to make their own medical decisions and some aren't.

didyouwritethe · 02/10/2015 22:48

Troll hunting is actually against MN Talk Guidelines.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 02/10/2015 22:50

I'm not troll hunting. If you think I am report.

didyouwritethe · 02/10/2015 23:08

"The rest of you...hmm." Not troll hunting. No, not for a minute.

Roseformeplease · 02/10/2015 23:09

I love the idea of the decision being left to adults "who see both sides". What, adults like our newest members of Mumsnet?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 02/10/2015 23:12

Report then didyou Confused

PigletJohn · 02/10/2015 23:12

Hello, Joey, and welcome to 'snet,

I was just thinking, you know two people getting brain seizures after the jab, and one person with severe kidney problems.

I'm not much of a statistician, but I wonder, how many recipients of the jab do you know? I'm trying to think if you are in a cluster where there is a reported rate of 3% or something.

jorahmormont · 02/10/2015 23:15

Grin Rose

Joey I know you joined Mumsnet just to post on this thread, but it's probably best to warn you that calling on everyone to report a poster because they disagree with you is pretty bad form. Not to mention akin to a school bully tossing her hair and saying "Come on girls, let's go and tell on ___".

JoeyRead · 02/10/2015 23:38

You guys are hilarious I can't stop laughing. Certainly made my teenagers and their pals laugh. Keep it up we can't wait for the next installment. We're placing bets here - ??????????????????

MerryInthechelseahotel · 02/10/2015 23:45

Laugh away JoeyRead if only you knew how transparent you are

DixieNormas · 02/10/2015 23:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CactusAnnie · 02/10/2015 23:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jorahmormont · 03/10/2015 00:08

Party at Joey's house, sounds like a thrilling evening Grin

PigletJohn · 03/10/2015 00:17

ScienceBased

"My statement that the vaccine has not been proven to prevent cancer is completely factual."

It is not a vaccine against cancer. Did you honestly think it was?

Do you think it prevents HPV?

Do you think HPV causes cancer?

bringmelaughter · 03/10/2015 02:43

Yes didyouwritethe, many 12 year olds are perfectly competent to make medical decisions about their own bodies. What exactly makes you think that they can't be competent in getting and processing information in order to make a decision?

Given some of the misinformation on this thread I'd suggest that many 12 year olds I've come across are better able to reason out information and make balanced decisions than some adults.

CoteDAzur · 03/10/2015 07:14

"If anyone thinks Cote is being rude please report. Maybe good manners should be adhered to here methinks."

Do let us know what MNHQ say when they get back to you on that report Grin

And thank you, no really, thank you for teaching MN manners on your first day here. I don't quite know how we lived like animals for years, ignorant of how civilized people behave on internet forums.

Now that you are here, Joey, I hope you will not just tell us what to think & do about vaccinations & manners. We need to have your help and guidance in all parts of our lives.

KevinAndMe · 03/10/2015 10:02

Yes didyouwritethe, many 12 year olds are perfectly competent to make medical decisions about their own bodies. What exactly makes you think that they can't be competent in getting and processing information in order to make a decision?

I'm sorry but not they're not competent to take that sort of decisions. If they were, then they should also be left to take similar decision regarding surgery and medications and so on.
As it turns out, 12yo aren't allowed to even take paracetamol on their own accord when they are out a school trip. If they can't be trusted to know when they have a headache and take the right amount of medication, can they really be trusted to know all the ins and outs of vaccinations, seen how complex the subject is???
They do NOT have the biological and scientific knowledge to make that sort of decision (ie the understanding). They do not have the ability to judge critically what they read or have been told.
They are still at the level of saying 'yes that's true because I believe the person who tells me xxxx'.
Let's not give to 12yo abilities that they don't have.

PigletJohn · 03/10/2015 10:57

"They are still at the level of saying 'yes that's true because I believe the person who tells me xxxx'."

You mean they shouldn't turn down vaccinations just because their parent says so?

bringmelaughter · 03/10/2015 11:16

Kevinandme, are you medically trained? Yes 12 year olds who are assessed as competent can make decisions about surgery, medication,etc.

There was a well publicised case of Hannah Jones who was deemed competent at 12/13 to decline heart transplant. I don't think there can be many medical decisions more far reaching than that one.

KevinAndMe · 03/10/2015 11:37

Andf then you have tons of threads on here arguing for and against many procedures, incl vaccinations.
And these arguments aren't just between lay people, they happend between researchers and medical professionals too.

So why do you think it's OK to say that a 12yo can actually know and understand all the ins and outs of it?

Amd why is it that in some may cases, 12yo AREN'T allowed to make decsions that have much less reprecusions?

(Note: the case you are citing is a very specific one of a child that will have been for a long time, will have had plenty of discussions with health care professionals, probably counsellors etc.... Completely different from the type of situation we are talking about right now. I'm surprised you are even making the comparaison tbh)

I do find offensive the question of 'are you medically trained?' though. It's as if you are thinking that if I'm not then I can't possibly make a point or be right. Or that it clearly implies I'm talking rubbish because of it.
Therefore I'm not going to answer that question (but maybe think that I CAN well be medically trained....). Telling people they are stupid isn't the way to win an argument though, nor is it a way to show that you know best. Quite the opposite actually.

CactusAnnie · 03/10/2015 11:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bringmelaughter · 03/10/2015 11:45

I ask because you don't appear to have an understanding of consent but are stating that minors can't make these decisions as though it is fact. For anyone else reading this I feel that it is important to know that your statements about consent are your belief not fact based on medical or legal training.

In the UK the legal position is that minors are able to make these decisions if they are deemed competent to and many are deemed competent.

There are arguments for and against pretty much every medical procedure. There are benefits and risks to having and not having most procedures. That is why it is important that individuals have autonomy over their own bodies as soon as they are competent to.