Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
General health

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Opting out of vaccinations. Is this normal?

82 replies

CarmenMonoxide · 01/10/2015 09:44

My dd had a fairly long absence from school due to ilness last year.
Apparently during this time her year had the cervical cancer vaccination.
she has told me they are having phase 2 next week and her name is down on the list for having it. I have to write a letter if she isn't having it.
I thought you had to give consent for it, not the other way around?

OP posts:
LyndaNotLinda · 02/10/2015 17:39

In the interests of balance, you may also want to read this OP: www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/hpv-vaccine-claims

jorahmormont · 02/10/2015 17:40

Lots of disorders like PoTS manifest themselves around puberty. My EDS first showed up at this age, just after I'd had the HPV jab. Do I blame the jab? Of course not. It's a genetic disorder, nothing to do with the jab.

Choose to have the jab, don't choose to have the jab, just stop scaremongering.

ScienceBased · 02/10/2015 18:53

I absolutely agree that the scaremongering should stop! Cervical cancer is very rare (11th most common in UK) and the HPV virus is harmless and naturally cleared by the body of the overwhelming majority of women who acquire it. Yet, little 12-year-old girls are being terrorised, manipulated and bullied by the ridiculous notion that they will die an agonising death from cervical cancer if they don't get this jab!

It is appalling. Given the legal issues here (that a child can consent to the vaccine even if mum and dad say no), it is easy to see how an impressionable child can be bullied and frightened into getting this vaccine without understanding the big picture. This is precisely why we DON"T put consent in the hands of children, but only adults who have the emotional and intellectual capacities to see both sides.

That's why if there's anything we should be scared about, it's the fact consent has been taken out of the parents" hands.

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 19:25

Welcome to MN, JeanFreda and JoeyRead. Funny you should find MN at the exact same time with rather similar nicknames.

jorahmormont · 02/10/2015 19:29

You read my mind Cote :)

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 19:32

"Cervical cancer is very rare (11th most common in UK) and the HPV virus is harmless and naturally cleared by the body of the overwhelming majority of women who acquire it"

All that is great, unless your DD is one of over 3,000 who are diagnosed with cervical cancer per year in the UK. Or if she is one of 900 who die of cervical cancer every year.

If those numbers are not important for you, then ask yourself why you vaccinated your children against measles, which only killed about 200-300 people per year shortly before the introduction of the vaccine.

ScienceBased · 02/10/2015 19:40

There's no proof the vaccine prevents cancer though.

And what if your daughter is one of the thousands who has adverse reactions as described by minpin?

There are two sides to every story and all medicines have side effects. For some people, the side effects end up worse than the benefits, and there's no way of knowing which camp your daughter will be in until it is too late. That is why research is important, to create fully informed consent - and why it is deeply sinister consent has been taken out of the hands of parents and put in the hands of 12 year old children.

JoeyRead · 02/10/2015 19:40

If you feel the hpv vaccine is not right for your daughter please don't give in to peer pressure. Spend an hour googling adverse effects of Gardasil and the links that mums have posted above & you may be very relieved that you said no. I'm so so glad I didn't let my daughter have it knowing what I do now xxx

JoeyRead · 02/10/2015 19:42

Science Based that is frightening news about the consent. Shocking. I had no idea.

didyouwritethe · 02/10/2015 19:47

Me too, JoeyRead.

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 19:48

"There's no proof the vaccine prevents cancer though. "

Excuse me? Shock

Vaccine provides immunity against cancer-causing HPV strains. What do you understand from this sentence?

jorahmormont · 02/10/2015 19:53

There's no proof that the vaccine prevents cancer YET, because I'm in one of the oldest age groups to have received the vaccine (I was in Year 9 or 10 when it was brought in, so I got it through the catch-up programme), and I'm 21. Not even old enough to have a smear test yet, as the chances of cervical cancer are negligible (but it still happens to girls my age, unfortunately, but it is very rare).

Maybe wait until we're reaching the age where we would be most likely to get cervical cancer, and then you can say whether it is proven to prevent cancer or not.

Oh and a friendly reminder that just because someone's user name is "Science Based", it doesn't make them a scientist. Or scientific in any way. Or right.

Caron2015 · 02/10/2015 19:53

My daughter's paediatrician explained to me that consent went with the party (parents or child) who the medical professional considered to be in line with 'the best interests of the child". Therefore if the medical professionals decided the vaccination was in the best interests of the child and the parents wanted the child to be vaccinated and she refused, the medical professional would exercise his judgement and try to talk the child into having the vaccination. If the child wanted the vaccination and the parents didn't want her to have it, the medical professional would go with the child's wishes and ignore the parents because it's what they thought would be in the child's best interest. The caveat is that the child must have a good understanding of the procedure what was involved.

Therefore the medical professional wins out in both cases and sides with whoever agrees with him/her.

Incidentally, this discussion took place because my daughter was under the care of a paediatrician (actually several, plus neurologists, gastroenterologists, physiotherapists, a dermatologist, a rheumatologist and several GPs) since she had her HPV vaccination 5 years ago - she is one of the 'unlucky' ones who was previously healthy and then after the vaccine has been left with chronic disabling symptoms that doctor aren't quite sure what to do about.

If your daughter has any underlying health problems, please ensure the school nurse is aware and ask your GP to research the vaccination before even considering giving consent.

You might want to point out to your GP and school nurse that this vaccination is currently under safety review by the European Medicines Agency in relation to two serious neurological conditions (postural orthostatic tachycardi syndrome and complex regional pain syndrome) after Denmark identified a safety signal.

ScienceBased · 02/10/2015 19:53

I know Joey, I even rang the Citizens Advice Bureau to check it out and they were shocked, had no idea - but looked it up and confirmed it is true.

Cote - that's the theory behind the vaccine, yes, but there is no proof it has prevented a single case of cervical cancer.

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 20:01

Caron2015 - Welcome to MN.

So many of you have come to MN today to tell us of the terrible dangers of HPV vaccine. To what do we owe the pleasure?

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 20:03

ScienceBased - Welcome to MN.

Are you sock puppets of the same person, or have you collectively decided to come to MN today to tell us what to think?

ScienceBased · 02/10/2015 20:04

That is an absolutely terrifying story Caron. So sorry about your daughter.

Removing parental consent with the pretext of "best interests of the child" for a non-essential medical intervention is extremely frightening for obvious reasons. Once parental rights are gone regarding medical interventions (not even treatment as the children getting these vaccines are not ill) what next?

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 20:06

All of you clearly know each other (if you are even different people at all) so I don't quite see why you act like you are hearing about Caron's daughter for the first time on this thread.

Can't you people get a room or something?

ScienceBased · 02/10/2015 20:11

Cote - this thread is about the HPV vaccination, about which the OP asked a question and clearly was not getting any responses. It is not about speculation on the possible relationships of people posting here.

It seems like you are trying to distract from the main issue? If we knew each other, would that somehow invalidate our information? Of course not. So our relationships, or lack thereof, are irrelevant.

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 20:15

There is a name for what you & friends are doing on this thread. I'm pretty sure that MNHQ will be interested.

Your "but there is no proof it has prevented a single case of cervical cancer" is complete misinformation. It prevents infection by cancer-causing HPV strains, which means it prevents cervical cancer. If you don't understand this, you really should not be talking about vaccines, let alone give your understanding of "information" to others.

jorahmormont · 02/10/2015 20:18

Cote I feel like we're talking to brick walls here. Or rather, one brick wall with several MN accounts.

Fugghetaboutit · 02/10/2015 20:20

Have you reported, Cote?

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 20:21

Yes, I have reported.

ScienceBased · 02/10/2015 20:22

Cote, why do you ignore the consent issues? Are you happy with consent being removed from parents and given to 12 year olds?

My statement that the vaccine has not been proven to prevent cancer is completely factual. However, more concerning than that is the reported horrific side effects.

It seems odd you should ignore all these issues just in order to "have a go" at people trying to present information to interested parties. The vaccine MAY prevent cancer, I just said it isn't proven to, which it isn't. It is proven however to cause side effects. So people need to be fully aware of both sides (and when I say people, I mean adult parents, not 12 year olds).

Oh and I can confirm I am but one person with but one account. I'm sure the mods can confirm too.

CoteDAzur · 02/10/2015 20:25

I am interested in consent issues. I'm just not interested in discussing them with a hoard of newbies with an agenda who are so clueless that they think we have "mods" on this website Hmm