If depression really is just a chemical imbalance, why does counselling work as well as anti-d's in some cases?

[Enid]

I can never understand that one.

When I was diagnosed with depression, it was explained to me thus:
The body produces seratonin (and other chemicals of course) and the brain has receptors for this. When you are under severe or prolonged stress, anxiety, misery etc, the body produces less & less seratonin & the receptors have a lower & lower take up rate, so you become depressed.
I believe there is a great deal of research going on into the brain & all the receptors at the moment. For example, it has been shown that some people have more opiate sensitive receptors, which may be one of many reasons contributing to drug addiction. I don't know if it is possible that some people are born with more or less seratonin receptors - but I guess it is possible.
I think at the moment, the general medical consensus is that depression usually has social causes & often childhood events give a pre-disposition to depression in adult life.
Hope that helps Enid.

this is an interesting read ..of course i was talking in quite simple terms, but thought that was essentially what enid wanted

here

thanks fullmoon

sophable is not keen on my views on madonna either!!!

There are types of depression that are not caused by childhood upbringing or trauma. SAD for example although the causes aren't known for definate the theories are that it is either chemical or genetic.

Copy and pasted from Bupa Website:
SAD may be related to changes in the amount of daylight during the autumn and winter. The amount of sunlight affects the levels of certain chemicals and hormones in the brain.

A chemical called serotonin plays a role in 'lifting' the mood. It is thought that people with SAD may have abnormally low levels of chemicals such as serotonin in winter.6
A hormone called melatonin slows down the body clock, and affects sleeping and mood patterns. People with SAD may respond to a decrease in light by secreting more melatonin than people without SAD.6 However, drug treatments designed to suppress the secretion of melatonin do not stop the symptoms of SAD so this is not the only factor.6
Genetics
Research has shown that if you have a close relative with SAD, you are more likely to develop it.

fullmoon, I am extremely impassioned about this subject, because this recourse to the medico-body model of mental illness feeds into societies need to turn away from those in mental distress. it allows the exact thing that enid is posting about to happen (woman with good reasons to be at the very end of what is bearable gets prescribed anti-depressants because looking at why she is where she is is just too expensive and time consuming.)

the reason people are so desperate to find a gene and corresponding magic bullet for is because of the trouble they have digesting that there are painful, difficult to face reasons why they find themselves in deep depression.

zippi, i hope that you receive me fiercely and passionately felt posts as they are intended, not as a personal attack (although I am VERY frustrated at the way you've expressed your point of view).

Well, speaking from my own very personal experience - AD's did just fine for me. No counselling required whatsoever. I honestly believe mine was triggered by hormonal changes + lack of sleep.

I had similar sypmtoms in my teens that coincided with puberty, which disappeared when I went on the pill.

I have seen my Mother, and many other Mothers who have gone through the menopause and suffered an array of intriguing symptoms - including depression (that was alleviated by HRT).

My PMT symptoms were quite similar to those I suffered when diagnosed with PND.

I have no idea what that truly means, but I know what it suggests to me.

I have never researched this fully - I dont profess to be an expert. I know that my PND and that of many others requires no counselling whatsoever to have resolved it.

you've directed me to a blog.

I'm sorry sophable, i am finding your hostility to Zippi on here very offputting.

I did read it as a personal attack

(but I recognise this is my problem as i just hate confrontation )

and i am finding zippi's views ignorant, dangerously so in such an emotionally fraught area.

sorry are we allowed to link to blogs?

It is interesting

I don't think that the only reason people are looking for a gene is that they are desperate to avoid the difficult situations people find themselves in

I think it's also because it so often runs in families that in some medical circles, they have started to think that it is more than just the 'environment' causing these problems

'some peoples brains just lend themselves to mental illness'

this statement is breathtakingly ignorant and offensive.

as i've said, the JUST in the middle of it is the mindblowing idiocy.

I am not ignorant on the subject of mental health

i didn't really mean schizophrenia or bipolar disorder as I can see how that of course would require medication

it was more generic 'depression' - sadness, if you like.

And I am pretty sure there are no ongoing issues or traumas that are "undealt with" that I am unaware of in my past to have contributed towards this.

I'm not sure 'most' people with depression also suffer amnesia...

Sophable - you are being quite vociferous towards zippi....

steady on sophable old girl

I would say I've had depression in one form or another for most of my life.

Obviously it saw its chance to rear its head again after I had the DSs.

Can I just take a small issue with this that you posted, Sophable:

"the lack of support some women face having had a baby, the ambivalence they feel towards the baby and their hatred of themselves for that, all the stuff brought up about their own relationships with their early caregivers can contribute to post-natal depression."

I've never felt ambivalent towards the boys, nor hated myself for my feelings towards them - I adore them and have never once felt anything but protective and nurturing towards them - it was THEM (paradoxically) that kept me going if that makes any kind of sense, because I could easily have seen them as the cause of the problem, I realise that.

I may be unusual - I don't know. But I do feel part of the stigma in saying "I have PND" is people thinking "ah, she must want to throw her baby down the stairs, the heartless bitch".

I don't have some deep trauma in my past - I am just naturally a mixture of violently cheerful and ridiculously morose, I think. I am very self-critical too and I worry a lot. I also don't care what anyone else thinks of me - another paradox?!

self critical but uncaring of what others think?

blimey thats a double edged sword

If Zippi were attempting to counsel someone on here, or advise on medication then i would concur with you that ignorance might be dangerous. But as several people (myself included) have posted equally non-medically qualified 'views' on here, I don't see why you are being so vitriolic to her specifically?
I didn't realise we had to have a phd in mental health issues to post a reply to what seemed to be a fairly open debate on depression and counselling.
I'm off!

'I think most people with depression have an old trauma or hurt or unresolved anger even if it is not apparent to them.'

Definitely NOT true for anyone I know w/depression.

And definitely NOT true for me.

I have PND.

ADs work for me, too, no counselling at all required.

sophable do you have a special interwest in this subject..just curious..

anyway, i'm off now, to pick up ds from nursery.

what this thread is tapping into is a whole bunch of stuff about people feeling very uncomfortable with a serious, sometimes life-threatening condition that is not an illness that can be identified, isolated and found a cure for.

i would strongly recommend the book 'Toxic Psychiatry' to anyone that is under any illusions about how damaging the application of a pure medical model to psychological and emotional distress is.

Of course there needs to be integration between the medical profession and psychotherapists.

Of course there is a place for medicines in treating mental illness.

However, claiming that mental illness is ever 'just' about some inherent genetic propensity is, as I've said, staggeringly ignorant.

Oh, also - insofar as it being a chemical imbalance - yes. We are ruled by our body's chemistries far more than anyone realises, I think.

I took provera after surgery for endometriosis and it turned me psychopathic and raging, for instance. I felt literally nothing for anybody I had previously loved. That scares the eff out of me now.

I felt very depressed after I had dd2

deffo through isolationa nd lack of support - which then led to me realisind I had NO 'normal' relationship with my mother

I wanted a 'mum' or a mother figure and had no one

this time round I have so many good female friends to talk openly too things are very different for me