So how many of you are genuinely 'anti-vax'

[bumbleymummy]

This accusation gets thrown around quite a lot on MN but from what I've seen, most people who are accused of it do vaccinate their children. They may use a different schedule or separate some vaccines and they possibly don't give certain vaccines but they still do vaccinate in some way and I don't think this makes someone 'anti-vax'. Even the parents who say they don't vaccinate at all tend to have a medical reason for not doing so and do support vaccines in general.

So, is anyone here genuinely 'anti-vax'?

I'm not anti vax but I am anti the way that many of them are given and who they are given to. My biggest dislike is the rubella vaccine (a vaccine given to protect an unborn baby) being given to a 13 month old, I know why they do it but I am very anti in this case. I am also anti the flu vaccine for children, I know it is to stop them passing flu onto an old person but I don't agree with this. I also don't like how they are all combined together so you can't just have one so lots of objections but not to the vaccines themselves as such.

I have not vaccinated DD (14) at all. My DS (19) had his first jabs then nothing since.

I explained my views to my GP, he understood. I signed a statement telling the surgery that my kids were not to have any vaccines and not to send me reminders, and I have heard nothing since.

I would never advise anyone not to vaccinate, as it is a personal decision, but one I stick by for my kids. We would not travel to any country we needed vaccinations for.

I have seen people on MN say they are anti vax because they have aluminium in, formaldehyde in, or just plain old "not natural". I despair.

I'm akin to sideoffoot.

I know one anti-vaxer. Not well. She seems a bright, intelligent woman and I leave her to it.

Why do you despair, hermione? Vaccinations are not risk free.

I don't know if I would class myself as 'anti-vax'. Both of my children have had the mmr, however, I do think there is some link between autism and enteric issues. That's not disputed actually. The cause of autism is genetic and more to the point, epigenetic, they don't know exactly which environmental factors switch on autism, and yet, it is claimed that they know with absolute certainty that it's not the mmr. Something doesn't add up there.

But however, I know I'll be mocked and derided and accused of being a conspiracist for having said that much! And my children have had every vaccination presented. My dd will have the hpv one as well, even though I know there are concerns about that one too. On the whole vaccinations are good but I just wish there was an acknowledgement that a very small percentage of the population can't withstand the vaccinations. Anybody who DARES to say that is just bullied in to silence. I hate that.

I agree urbanefox

And vaccinations are, on the whole, absolutely wonderful. But not risk free. And in some kids more than others. But we aren't allowed even to discuss that.

The risk of vaccinations for the vast majority of the population, vs the risk of the disease they are protecting against are tiny.

And those who genuinely can't have vaccinations for diagnosed medical reasons rely on herd immunity of those who can. It's repulsively selfish to endanger those kids because you can't see through a (usually) crackpot, scare mongering website.

I think anti vaxxers are hard of thinking and (like other countries) you shouldn't be able to attend state schools without having completed the vaccination programme. And if you get the illness you shouldn't be entitled to NHS treatment.

Nothing I believe comes from a crackpot website. It's looking at the whole picture and why vaccinations are pushed for the whole population at the expense of a few. I'm not ''hard of thinking'' but I did find some of the medical staff I spoke to a bit ignorant. I relocated from one country to another and one nurse blithely suggested that I just allow my children to have all the vaccinations again. There are risks. Guillaume Barré syndrome with the flu vaccination for example. Rare, but it happens, and it's not ''hard of thinking'' to make a personal decision.

In Denmark at the moment there are hundreds of women badly affected by the hpv vaccine.

healthimpactnews.com/2015/gardasil-vaccine-in-denmark-serious-adverse-reactions-now-number-1-in-500-girls/

Maybe, maybe. But if your kid is the one severely damaged by a vaccination, you might feel a little differently.

we don't really know why so many kids have greater health problems these days. Allergies, asthma, ADHD are just a few.

I often wonder if vaccinations play a bigger part than we realise. And I say that as someone who chooses to vaccinate my kids (except the flu vaccine).

Vaccinations are not risk free.

No, but then neither's TB.

Or meningitis. I could go on.....

Does anyone have any additional on the new MenB vaccine?

DD is due to be immunised. I've read the NHS stuff, I just want to read a bit more and convince myself.

I am pro-vaccination (and my children are vaccinated) but I like to be informed about any treatment I or my children have. I wish dialogue was more open about the risks involved and like others

Taking DD2 for her jabs recently there was no discussion of which immunisations she was having, side effects etc. When I asked the nurse she was quite defensive about the vaccinations in a way that HCP usually aren't about risks/benefits of other medications (like antibiotics for example.)

Whoops. Half edited that. Meant to say ... Like others don't always agree with the vaccine schedule, although I suppose this is mostly due to the economic constraints of the NHS.

Hermione, you totally miss the point. If be quite happy if the nhs said that my child couldn't have nhs treatment if they hadn't had the vaccine. I suppose they could fine or charge the family of an unvaccinated child for treatment but then people might decide to not bother and just let their child pass the disease on to others.

Is the right of a child who can't have a vaccine and needs to be protected by herd immunity greater than the right of another child. It might be selfish but when it comes to it how many people would really honestly put the rights of another child over their own child. Be honest!

I'm a GP and, probably obviously, "pro-vaxx" but in the sense that I've studied the available evidence in detail in order to be able to inform my patients adequately. I think it's good science to approach medical evidence from the point of view of "what if it's wrong?" rather than solely trying to gather evidence to support the hypothesis.

I do think there's a very heavy-handed approach taken, as urbane says, towards people who ask questions or have concerns and I think that means we'll never "win" those people over.

I think a lot of these people are, quite rightly, suspicious of "big pharma", which often has an agenda a million miles away from philanthropy and the good of the patient (see Ben Goldacre's excellent book for more on that chilling subject). And sadly they often lump the genuinely life-saving public health phenomenon that vaccination has been in with the rest. They need their fears assuaged, if possible, with detailed explanations and refutations based on scientific evidence. They need to be allowed to explore their fears.

I have had very occasional parents come to see me who had held off on vaccinating their children due to genuine worries about vaccines, which had been almost dismissed out of hand by other HCPs. Some of them were actually really receptive to a clear and rational discussion, without judgment or mud-slinging, and subsequently had their children vaccinated. Some of them didn't change their minds, but the few wins made the effort more than worthwhile.

Side, if you had read my post you would see that one of the reasons anti vaxxers make me so angry is the children who genuinely can't be vaccinated and need herd immunity.

Genuine question - why are people against the flu vaccine ?

I'm currently looking this up for my PFB .
I did vaccinate for flu last year , but I was still reluctant . The guilt of "what if " got to me and I vaccinated .

Turns out that DH and I were very ill over the course of 2 weeks (I'm not sure if it was a flu or another virus ) , yet dd never caught it from us . Coincidence or vaccine ? I don't know .

I'm currently researching flu vaccine as this is just the one I'm not sure about .

Blue blue sea you say you wouldn't travel to a country where vaccines are required....does that mean you acknowledge that they work and your home country has largely eradicated diseases via vaccines?

You want the benefit of low disease rates but don't want to contribute to it?

Side, I don't understand your point about rubella.

If a pregnant mother catches rubella, this can harm her unborn child. Aside from this, rubella is, in the main, unpleasant, but relatively harmless. A 13 month old child cannot get birth defects. Once they are born, that risk is over.

So, we vaccinate against rubella, purely to protect pregnant women from catching it.

I'm not anti vax at all. Far from it. But, as with dc2, I will be splitting dc3's 12/13 month vaccinations and doing them 2-3 weeks apart (still within the recommended time frame though).
Not for any reason other than I think three jabs at once is a bit much!

Are you going to pay to do that privately, Signora, or are you going to make three times as many NHS appointments than is needed?

Aussiemum78 Blue blue sea you say you wouldn't travel to a country where vaccines are required....does that mean you acknowledge that they work and your home country has largely eradicated diseases via vaccines?

No, I do not mean that at all. I mean that if I or my kids have to get a vaccine to travel to a particular county I would choose not to have the vaccines and not travel to that country. Also a lot of the diseases that they have in tropical countries we would never have had in the UK, so we will not have had contact with them and developed our own immunity.

Sanity, my point about rubella is that, it is not a threat to my child (you yourself even admit unpleasant and relatively harmless), I can cope with that. It is given to the 13 month old (and 4 year old) to stop them passing rubella onto a pregnant woman. I have a problem agreeing to allowing someone to stick a needle into my child (it is not risk free) to protect someone else. It is a moral objection. No problem with a young woman consenting to protect themselves against rubella, that is a great idea.

My objection to the flu vaccine is that old people, for whom flu is most dangerous, don't get themselves vaccinated, they sometimes catch flu from children, so the flu vaccine is given to children to stop them catching flu and passing it on to the old people, so similar objection to rubella vaccine.

Hermione, I fully understand your points about heard immunity, but I ask again, would you genuinely risk your child , vaccines are not risk free, to protect someone else over your own child, because that is what herd immunity asks me to do. Call me selfish, I can live with that but be honest too, would you protect some other child rather than your own child.