Endless Back Stories. Support For Back Pain and Sciatica. Thread 8.

[MatildaTheCat]

Sadly there seems to continue to be a need for this thread as many of us continue to suffer from back related pain. There are many causes, the pain and misery is shared here and hopefully some comfort derived from knowing we are not alone. We are strictly non competetive and newcomers most welcome.

We can offer advice on medication and effective drug combining plus other methods of pain management.We have used different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery. We can share our experiences of navigating the big and baffling medical world, both private and NHS as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us. Not to mention the pain of dealing with claiming disablity benefits. . We are not doctors just people who have trodden the painful path of obtaining a diagnosis and dealing with our conditions.

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping another skill obtained along the way , then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a and say hello

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Cauda Equina Syndrome. A must read for severe acute pain with Red Flags. Please Read

Constructive Rest. A Simple Exercise Anyone Can Do

Like you I'd have to Google dura but most of us find physio helpful or at least useful. I have had exercises from them for specific back issues over the years. At the very least a good workout from a physio is like a painful massage .. its great when they stop!

We don't think he is a wuss ... yes its true discs do come out/deteriorate and some people don't have pain but they are LUCKY not tough. We are the tough ones!

I asked specialist about other options and he shrugged and said DP needed to give physio a go and that there weren't many other options. I asked about pain relief and he said hopefully physio will lead to less pain, but that all medications had unfortunate side effects and it was a tricky thing to know if they are worth it.

The thing is, surely your DP should be the one who decides this? We all know meds have side effects. Some are manageable,some not. The side effects I get may well be different from the ones you get. So he's being a total arse to suggest not to bother because you might get side effects. Your DP is in so much pain he is scared? He needs proper analgesia.

Honestly, I'm so cross for you both. Make anothe GP appointment and say you need to discuss proper analgesia for your DP 's disc prolapse. I would suggest starting with cocodamol 30/500x2 four times a day and naproxen 500mg twice a day unless there are reasons why not. Yes, he might well feel sleepy, this gets better quite quickly, or constipated,there are lots of ways of sorting this out. nobody should be frightened with pain.

The spasms you mention are muscular. Essentially the muscles spasm or constrict to protect the injury site whenever there is a perceived thread like a sudden jolt. If the spasm is prolonged (hours) then diazepam is really helpful.

Hopefully the physio will be able to help a little. Pacing really is helpful. Do a little then rest, do a little more then rest. Always staying under the pain level. Very, very gradually you are able to do more whilst still keeping the pain low. Equally, in my case and many others, taking the meds regularly whether the pain is high or not. This helps keep a lid on it.

Did you get the report and scan disc? If physio isn't helpful it may still be worth seeing a neurosurgeon. They can assess whether surgery might be helpful (see earlier post) or, if not, can refer for more injections. There a several kinds that can help.

Waves to everyone else. The sun is shining, maybe I should get up?

Sorry, I forgot to say that I have been told by several consultants that over a period of time discs do eventually dehydrate and 'collapse' when prolapsed and the pain does generally settle. Sadly it can take a long time.

matilda and ally thank you. This thread has been so helpful over the past few days.

It is wonderful to learn that over a period of time the disk may become less painful of its own accord! I didn't know about this and will pass it onto DP.

I agree that the specialist's attitude to pain relief was really disappointing. Having read around the subject a little (although its so hard to know which sites to trust, which is why this thread is so helpful), I can see there are lots of options, none of which have been mentioned to DP.

Interestingly DP has some naproxen which he was prescribed for an isolated episode of gout. He has admitted to the specialist that on occasion he has been 'self medicating' with the naproxen, the specialist didn't really comment. I had told DP that I thought it was a bad idea, but maybe he should continue!

The constant nagging pain really gets him down, and the twinges do frighten him and take his breath away. I will try to persuade him to see his GP to discuss pain relief more thoroughly.

The spasms you mention are muscular. Essentially the muscles spasm or constrict to protect the injury site whenever there is a perceived thread like a sudden jolt. I would like to understand more about this if possible- I think it would help DP to understand it as it really bothers him when this happens and I wonder if he might be less shaken by it if he understood..... is there anything that you could suggest that I read?

I will also suggest DP looks at pacing. It sounds very helpful.

We got the scan disk. The interpretation of the images was done in front of us by the specialist- I wasn't aware of any additional report, I wonder if it is on the disk.

It sounds like maybe DP should try the physio and then consider a neurosurgeon if he is still struggling. The specialist seemed adamant that the nerves were unaffected though, so I wonder if he would agree to refer us to a neurosurgeon.

Ally I like your statement that you are the tough ones! You are absolutely right and I take my hat off to you all for being so proactive and resilient.

I find nerve pain more nagging and achy (someone called it leg toothache) whereas my spasms were sharp and completely terrifying. It must be the body's way of stopping you as you can't move for a day or two at all. First time the neighbours must have thought hubby was killing me as I screamed and swore my head off getting back to bed and we called an out of hours GP out. They are scary and anyone who doesn't get that hasn't had them (unlike us toughies). My physio reckons the spasms are a reaction to an unusual movement so the last time I felt one coming (you learn to recognise the signs) I did some exercises (gentle stretching and mobility) and it didn't happen. Jury is still out on this though.

You are catching on fast and the ladies in here know loads more than me. Most of us self-medicate ... I took some leftover Naproxen for my current tendonitis in my dead leg and my GP didn't bat an eyelid. Booze helps too!

fresh whenever a scan, X-ray or similar is done a qualified radiologist reviews and reports the scan. This is a written document. Even if a doctor is experienced in reading scans it is not the same as an expert report. So that is what you need to ask for. Just call the consultant's secretary or the MRI department and ask how to access it. It will be very medical language but some may make sense and a GP should be able to understand it well enough.

It's hard to know what to recommend with reading but the Spine-health website is quite good.

Finally, naproxen is an NSAID and as such better taken regularly rather than just when desperate as it works better when the blood levels are kept stable. Your dh really does need to see his GP and get his pain relief sorted out. And perhaps look at his whole lifestyle and how he might make helpful changes.

hey all, have not posted for ages but thought I would checkin- if anyone other than matildacat and pavlov still remember me (?)
I have had a fibromyalgia diagnosis last week and it is a double-edged sword. relief to not have to keep searching so hard- the gp didnt want to refer me to rheumy at all, i was err "persistent" and then when i was back ther weeks later getting pip appeal letter she said "oh maybe it IS fibbromyalgia" - well rheumatology wil adress that. I had blood taken too and they have booked an sij mri to check it as he said"that hasnt been done"
the "leg tooth ache analogy is very apt, allypally,
freshstart the session your dh got sounds very limiting and not letting him know all the options- pain itself is something to treat and has ts own impact on a person, so sometimes medicatins are the way to go while you get on top ofit at least and give hime some respite
hope u all have good days today.
I am having a bit of a bad one from the get-go as my neck is aching and generally it is all dialled up today. I went to sleep around 2.30, i know it's too late and i need to get bask into habits of going to bed earlier

Maizie I remember you - and Murmation. Good your rheumi is checking things out Maizie, but sorry to hear you have fibromyalgia. I get the impression that Fibromyalgia is getting better understood by the day - as is CFS if it has been reclassified as a neuro illness - which mine appears to be. There was an interesting article years ago that said ladies with similar symptoms to men got diagnosed with fibro whilst men got diagnosed with AS! So its good all the tests are being done. Persistence does pay!
I eventually saw the bone/back specialist ( work has fizzed out of my brain!) who said that he thought there was enough space in my spine despite the broadly collapsed and sticking out disc, to not be causing the back pain sciatica and numbness, so I am to await an MRI of my head and neck. The letter to my gp which copied me in, says this is to rule out MS. I was very wobbly on the day I saw the specialist because the computers were down, and there was a long (hours) wait on hard chairs, so my balance was at its worst and I could not stand on one leg or heel to toe walk- I have off days. Its probable part of the CFS rather than MS but frankly MS (because I have a lot of neurological symptoms with my CFS) should have been ruled out years ago.
Freshstart, I asked the physio to read me the MRI report which was very helpful (I had physio start before the MRI due to some booking errors)- although all in medical terms, such as modic changes etc. I got a letter from the specialist - a copy of the GP letter later, but it did not include any details of the MRI. He asked me what pain medication I used but did not change anything - I only use OTC meds plus a tablet for neuro pain given to me for another condition. I find the stretches the physio gave me most helpful, but I also do pilates. Massage from the physio was also very helpful - but I was only allowed a couple of sessions through the NHS, so am looking for a suitable physio.

Well, my sis came with me to the GP.
She was very concerned at the saddle parasthesia, so examined me in all sorts of places (!) and checked my reflexes. She said she will refer me to muscular-skeletal clinic.
She gave me gabapentin, and the pain relief from it is magical! (I have yet to read the warning leaflet, as I have been out all day, then hiding with a sinus migraine as soon as I got in.)
She said that she supports my application for a blue badge, which astonished me.
Something else that was bothering me she has said is trivial, and has given me ointment.
She has agreed to test my thyroid again, as sis is concerned that I have got to the age when females in our family develop thyroid probs.
I was amazed - power of the sister!

Progress all round yay!

Hi everyone

I've had this for 10 years now. Had a microdiscetomy two years ago but my recovery wasn't great as the rules on not lifting, bending, carrying etc went out the window in week 12 after dp had a serious accident. Ended up being his carer for six months as well as taking on all the house stuff and looking after the kids. Ended up in worse pain and now booked in for a decompression and fusion in the new year.

I'm allergic to tramadol so take codeine and pregablin. I've been on God knows how many meds combinations over the last 10 years. Yet to find one that can help but doesn't leave me feeling zombie like and/or piling on weight.

Hi everyone, you all look like you know your stuff when it comes to back pain - can I hang out and ask some stupid questions please?

My back has been weak on and off for years after a fall down the stairs in my mid 20s and I've had the odd bout of back pain. Monday morning I got out of the car and it just 'went'. I was completely stuck, couldn't lift my legs and the pain was unbearable. My son was with me thankfully, it took me 20 minutes to get 10ft from the car to the door and he then had to lift my legs to get me over the doorstep.

Once it had eased and I'd taken painkillers it wasn't too bad, but I couldn't sit down. Yesterday though when I tried to get out of bed everything had completely spasmed I can now only walk (shuffle) with crutches and the pain is constant. I've got no red flag symptoms so don't want to go to hospital as I know there's nothing they can do for me other than analgesia.

I was diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome a couple of years ago and ended up having my first rib resected to try and open the space (saw Miss Triggs post above about it!) so still had a fair amount of analgesia kicking around the house. I also work in A&E so know what I can and can't take. So I'm taking Paracetamol, Naproxen, Diazepam and the odd shot of Oramorph to try and control the pain, but quite honestly it's not touching the pain at all.

I'm waiting for the GP to call me back; I was wondering about switching the paracetamol for Tramadol - does anyone have any suggestions about what might be a good drug regime to actually tackle the pain?

Also, have seen chiropractor yesterday; she said the inflammation was severe and that i needed to ice it for a couple of days before she could begin any proper treatment. I've been icing every hour and am seeing her again tomorrow. Does anyone have any other advice that I could use to try and get myself back on track? I feel absolutely desperate, am in so much pain I don't know what to do with myself .

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the epic post!

furry, how much diazepam are you taking? I would suspect that you have a really acute spasm and the pain won't really ease up until it relaxes a bit. Taking 5mgs three times a day for a couple of days might do the trick. I personally prefer heat on spasmy muscles but there are varying views on this. Adding Tramadol will almost certainly help the pain as well. Do continue the paracetamol though as it helps the Tramadol to be more effective.

Tbh I wouldn't be going to the chiro in your condition and without a diagnosis. Whilst you are so acute it might be better to rest, potter, rest.

Hi coffee, poor you, long term back pain just sucks.

Furry. I find heat works better for me then ice. I don't know why.

I've not been in this thread before but I have recently been diagnosed with a degenerative condition of my spine affecting c5-c7. I was a bit surprised because both the neurologist and I thought I had a trapped nerve in my arm as a numb hand is what took me to my GP.

Anyway, the numb hand is still present and has been since Feb but I am kind of getting around it but am worried whether it's permanent or not.

I'm also getting shooting pains down my right side and upper back pain. This is how it all started with my left side. In the past week, I've developed sciatica, too.

It is probably work related. I work in a supermarket and do a lot of lifting but I am trying to be careful.

I was taking Naproxen but it hurts my stomach so I am trying my luck with Ibuprofen which is not as good.

Hi fury. I am still unable to type x so forgive x typos
How I the back pain?
What ws x the outcome of your op for t horaic outlet synwromex if you don't mind me asking?

I think I am getting some progress through osteopathy bur it is hard to tell.. I am also hopeful that orthotics x will help the posture

One worrying thing is that my oatwopath says my mri report use not " normal for my age" as. I was told by x gp and patronizing nhs phisio therapist. There is a bulg ing disk at c6/7 which may explain why my symptoms are bllateral

Really sorry about typos. I am still in denial about buying the voice recognition software

Hi new people ... sorry I can't keep up but no brain cells left. Most impressed with Furry getting from car to house in full spasm. I might have lain on the ground waiting for ambulance! Sorry you are all here.

Hi all, thanks so much for replying! Sorry about delay in responding - those painkillers have mashed my brain to the point where yesterday I forgot I'd even posted!

I can see a definite improvement today, I have more movement and the pain is not as severe. Matilda I've been taking 2.5mg Diazepam three times daily - will know next time to up it!

ally I think it was probably a sight to behold My son was behind me shuffling my legs forward an inch at a time and literally picked me up stiff as a post to get over the doorstep - he was so composed while I was screeching and crying with the pain!

MissTriggs I have a herniated disk at C6/7 too which I think causes a lot of the symptoms. I had the rib resection done on my right side because my hand and arm kept going numb and swollen, with the skin becoming grey/blue every time I walked for longer than 5 minutes. Unfortunately after the op not only did it carry on doing it, the other arm does it as well now, hence why I think its the disk causing bilateral symptoms, rather than thoracic outlet syndrome. The surgeon also damaged my arm during the op, so now I have nerve damage at the back of my arm causing hypersensitivity, and my armpit is completely numb Truthfully I wish I'd never had it done, although I know it does help lots of people. The surgeon offered to do the other arm as well, but I think my face told him all he need to know about that offer! I discharged myself and figure I just have to put up with it now.

Hi I'm joining this thread (unfortunately ). I started a thread about my GP not willing to prescribe any other painkillers and got loads of support and good advice. Thankfully I have different mess now which should hopefully make a difference.

My story is, 8 months ago my back 'went', it has happened before but that time was particularly bad but the pain eased after a few weeks however then the sciatic pain started.

At that point it wasn't that bad, in the sense that it was bad but I managed to get on with my life and after about 3 months it had eased to the point it was almost gone.
Then something happened to my back and the sciatica came back really badly, to the point that I couldn't walk or stand for long.
I thought it would ease like it did before, but it didn't really. It was sometimes better than other times but it was always there. A few weeks ago I was having a good period the pain in my leg had eased considerably and j was able to do more than I had for a long time.
Then something happened to my back again it now hurts quite badly and the pain in leg is horrific. I'm either bent forward or tilted to the side as I can't walk otherwise. The pain is in my lower back, my hip and my calf. The calf pain is the worst. If I walk the pain builds up until it's burning, really burning, and there's a bad ache in my whole leg, back and hip.

I read a bit of the x ray report when I was at the GP the other day, it said there's severe degeneration of discs at L5/S1 and significant narrowing of the disc canal. There was a few more sentences which I didn't manage to read, but the degeneration/narrowing is putting pressure on the sciatic nerve.

I've got an appointment very soon with orthopaedic ICAT and I think I'll be referred for an MRI. The doctor said I may be offered injections too.

I stared gabapentin on Friday and I'm building up to a dose of 1800mg. Today my leg actually feels slightly better, though I don't want to say too much in case it comes back with a vengeance!!
I also got a prescription for diazepam. They are 5mg tablets, I halved one , so 2.5mg, and it didn't seem to do anything at all. The pain was still there and I felt no different. I took the other half and the pain was still there...although I did fall asleep for a few hours so not sure if it helps much.

That's my story, if you haven't fallen asleep reading this essay! Hopefully the gabapentin works to an extent I can get about that's all I ask for!

Hello all, good to see you here, very stressedmum even if the circumstances are rather grim. Your situation actually sounds quite like my SIL. She has had a disc prolapse that improves then relapses for a couple of years. Because I had such a bad experience of surgery it made her cautious and frankly, she's better than me these days. She hasn't had a bad episode for quite a while. injections really helped her a lot. It's easy for others to recommend 'just have the operation and you'll be fixed', but life is rarely that simple. Discectomy isn't great for back pain, better for leg pain and also many, many disc prolapses do get better of their own accord.

In the meantime getting your analgesia sorted and perhaps getting some gentle stretches recommended by a physio if you are able.

We went for a meal last night so back aching dreadfully this morning but not as bad as last week, thankfully. Hope everyone else is feeling as ok as possible.

furry, hope you continue to recover. Take it slowly. Can I add sympathy for the nerve damage, I have nerve damage from my first surgery and also wish I'd never had it done. Having said that, it can, obviously be a great thing. It's just not at all great when yours is the one that went a bit wrong.

vsm, should add that if the spasm stage has passes then diazepam won't help much, other than to stop you caring as much! Can you ask your GP for Tramadol plus paracetamol for the back pain? Again gabapentin probably won't do much for that which is why we end up on such a cocktail of meds as each one does a different job. Maybe ask your more friendly GP?

Sorry everone is in such a lot of pain and I hope some progress is made. I went to the consultant today to get my Mri results and he told me I had a massive herneated disc. I have been put on the urgent waiting list and should get it done in the next couple of weeks orcso. Im very scred but also a bit relieved. It was nice to see for my own eyes what has been causing all this pain.

Finger crossed for a good result for you, meg. Actually sometimes it's good to just be told it needs doing as opposed to ,' well you could have surgery, it's up to you.'

Ask if you have any questions, several of us have been there, done that. It is very scary.

Thanks Matilda, I'm sorry the operation didn't work so well for you.
It is touted as a bit of a miracle cure but there are risk which you are living with everyday. It's so hard to know what to do for the best.

That's good news Meg, it's probably a relief to know exactly what's wrong so it can start to hopefully be put right.

I'm hoping I'll get the injections it might help, though I've heard it doesn't work for a lot of people.

I thought diazepam was a painkiller for some reason! I don't think my back is in spasm so it probably won't help me much. Is tramadol a pain killer?
Tbh my back isn't the main concern it's stopped hurting as much, my leg is the problem, the pain is severe and never ending. When I straighten up it pulls (or something) on the nerve and my leg is so painful. So I walk bent over practically in half as my leg doesn't seem to hurt when I walk like that.

Does anyone know when the gabapentin starts working and gives some pain relief?
I thought the pain was slightly less this morning, but no I was wrong.

Thanks Matilda, my question at the moment is how long did you stay in hospital for? verystressedmum I literally feel your pain at the moment. My consultant did say I could have the injections but it probably wouldn't work so i'm happy with that. obviously everone is different though. i get the feeling all these pain killers just take the edge off nerve pain for sciatica. Judging by everones stories. I have never taken so many pills and still been in pain