Surgery for wrinkles, would you consider it? Should I, or does it make me shallow and vain?!

[WideWebWitch]

Today, as I sat looking at my reflection in the harsh daylight of my car rear view mirror (don't worry, I wasn't driving at the time), I noticed that my wrinkles have got worse. And I started thinking about doing something about it. Like Botox or something. And then I wondered whether:

A)Any cosmetic 'surgery' like this is justifiable in terms of expense/risk/pain just for the sake of vanity?

B) As a feminist could I live with myself if I went ahead? I've read and agreed with much of what Naomi Wolf had to say in The Beauty Myth and somewhere in me is a kernel of conscience asking why I feel the need to think about this? Is it because society demands that women look younger for longer? (I'm 35 and happily partnered)

Has anyone had surgery? What was it like? Is there something that doesn't involve having botulism injected into your forehead? Does Patsy Kensit (she's apparently a Botox fan) have any facial expressions? What about Restalyne? (sp?)

I do avoid the sun and wear factor 30 sunscreen, I am about to give up smoking, I do drink lots of water and eat healthily. But should I learn to love my wrinkles? Does anyone really? Would you all rush off and have your crows feet done if money were no object?

Any and all views welcome. And feel free to slag me off for being a vain bitch if you like (but I do realise that there are many more important issues in the world...still interested to know if other people feel like this!)

WWW, no, you are not a vain bitch, I sometimes feel exactly the same! I regularly console myself when I get abit down about my newly acquired wrinkles, that I could always go and get something done about them one day.. I think thats as far as I can go though, I doubt I'd ever really do something as the one person I did know who had botox looked so peculiar for a while there, I didn't know what to say to her! I also smoke, and am planning to give up and treat myself to some posh anti-fine line cream (that I swear works on my friend beautifully), once I've kicked the habit. I swear I woke up after having ds and the wrinkles arrived, hadn't ever noticed them before. In a way I'm quite proud of them, they're evidence of my increasing maturity as a mother now. I really wouldn't want to be in my late 20's again anyway (I'm 34) so for me, I just gotta deal with it and not get down about it. HTH!

Jessi - what's the cream called? We should be told!!

www as far as I am concerned cosmetic surgery should be freely available on the NHS far sooner than c-sections for those who don't need them for medical reasons!

If you go for it will you change your name to the more complimentary Lucy Lamp Lady? ( apologies to all non Letterland fans)

loved the letterland joke jasper!

No, I don't like my wrinkles. Don't agonise over them but don't like them. Just yesterday I drove past a beauty parlour offering non-surgical face lifts for £25.00 - now what is that all about? I don't like the idea of losing facial expression either, so for that reason, I would reluctantly would give botox a miss.

Plenty of sleep and oil of Ulay total effects moisturiser (really, really good for my skin) are my two best anti-wrinkle tips. When I used to have 5 hours sleep half the week to run market stalls and buy stock, and used other or no moisturiser, my skin suffered terribly.

a small slug, star! ha ha!!

Is this a mid-30's crisis? I hit 35 in January and felt like overnight the bags under my eyes were as big as sacks of potatoes and the laughter lines around my mouth (why do they call them that, they make me want to cry!) were deep enough to plant the spuds in!

I second Tigermoth's recommendation for Olay Total Effects and Olay's Daily Renewal cleanser and toner - and my one extravagance is Estee Lauder's Advanced Night Repair Eye Recovery Complex which sorts out dryness, puffiness, dark cirles and wrinkles - since January I swear it's worked miracles.

Jessi, TELL US THE NAME OF THE CREAM!

Jasper, very funny! Have been following the c-section thread and I did wonder whether it would be inflamatory to ask my questions given the raging debate there...

Star, you're right about our contemporaries. I also reckon Kylie is about 35 but has started lying about it recently...

Tigermoth, £25!! Where is it?? I'm going

Will buy Estee Lauder cream next time I'm in town. I've always pooh-poohed these anti-ageing creams as total cons and wondered who they were aimed at: now I know...

WWW/Sniksnak its by Dermalogica, its called 'Multi-Vitamin Power Firm' its a plumping cream for the fine lines around the eye and lip area. Its only available through a Dermalogica person, if you log onto their website, you'll find a representative near you I'm sure. It costs £25.50 for a tiny tube, but you use it sparingly of course! My friends eye and lip area are fantastic and she smokes too, so I KNOW it works! She is also a sun queen so it doubly works! I have a dermalogica women near me, but can't buy it until I give up my ridiculous secret roll-up habit... not long to go now though!

Kylie sounds a bit like Jerry Hall, then. Much was made of her having a baby at 44 and now the 'baby' is three or four, she's 42!!

Really, really hate to say this but, just did a search - Kylie Minogue's DOB is 28 May 1968 but Jerry Hall's is 2 July 1956!!!!

Calling all those Olay Total Effects users, is it still true that the moisturiser contains no sunscreen? I can understand the fab night cream not having any, but why not the day cream? It's meant to delay the signs of ageing after all.

It's my one major niggle with the brand. If you wear it during the day, do you use sun protection cream too?

Ps, www, next time I pass the £25.00 face lift place, I'll pop in and ask!

Two words. Touche Eclat! It does wonders for dark circles and anything else you want to disguise!

Already got it, am addicted! But the terrible vision in the rear view mirror was with Touche Eclat

Tigermoth, I think there are 2 types of Total Effects, one with no sunscreen and one with SPF15, which is the one I always use. I think SPF15 is fine for just walking out and about and I don't sunbathe anyway, but when on hols in France last year I used a combined facial moisturiser/high factor sunscreen (SPF30?) from Elizabeth Arden as a base and slapped foundation on top of it (can't bear to be seen without it, even on holiday, how sad!)

thanks suew and jodee. I need a new pot of Total Effects, so I'll read the small print carefully.

Hmmmm... never really considered surgery or botox until ds (4 1/2) asked 'Mummy, why have you got railway tracks on your forehead?'

I wondered about my kangaroo pouch tum which I've been left with - will this ever go - have considered a tummy tuck but think it's too expensive. Does anyone know if and when this goes?