The Back Pain Emporium is Open For Business. Browsers Welcome. Thread 7

[MatildaTheCat]

For anyone experiencing back pain it can be a terrifying time. What is wrong? Who can help? How long will this last? We,on this thread are here to support you;offer empathy and help to navigate the almost impossible task of getting a diagnosis and the right treatment.We are not doctors but people who have trodden this path slowly and painfully. We also chat a LOT and welcome all newcomers. It is strictly non competetive regarding pain and no niggle is too minor.

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn. And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us. Not to mention the pain of dealing with claiming disablity benefits. .

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly,sometimes drink , have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a and say hello

Previous thread for anyone interested

Well ladies, here I am, my first post on this thread.

So much information and support here, it's wonderful

Here's my story.

35 years, two boys DS5 and DS3.

Had one week if chronic back pain this time last year that seemed to go away all on its own.

In October I developed a pain in right cheek of my ass that I foolishly attributed to muscle pain.

Fastforward to December and I had full blown sciatica but was still able to function.

The last week of December however all hell broke loose with the type of crippling leg pain that I know many of you are all too familiar with. At one point I decided it just wasn't going to drink any fluids because I couldn't bear the thought going to the toilet

My GP was a dick. In the end my DM drove me to A&E two weeks ago where they were horrified I had no pain relief and was on the lowest possible dose of difene. I have since gotten a new GP two weeks ago who is much more on the ball.

I had an MRI on Friday night and the radiographer told me off the record that I have a 'massive nasty' disc herniation at l5s1 and to make sure I see a consultant ASAP. He said my GP should have the Radiologist report this morning.

Medication wise I was prescribed Lyrica 150mg, codeine, diazepam and a max dose of anti-inflam.

At present I'm not taking the diazepam or codeine as I couldnt cope with the constipation . Happily, Lyrica is working well for me without major side effects. It doesn't help me walk or stand for much longer than a minute but it definitely helps when I'm lying down so now I can sleep - hurray!

I tried physio but am convinced it made me worse. Right now I'm just trying to increase my steps/walking every day but making minimal progress.

I'm in Ireland and thankfully have private health insurance so I would expect speedy access to whoever I need to see next.

So that's my story and thank you all who have shared yours. Any tips and advice on going forward would be greatly appreciated.

Just to add - aside from the sciatic pain I have numbness in my right calf and the outside of my right foot and no reflex in my right ankle. Also my right ankle has lost power ie can't go up on my toes.

Thanks for reading!

Sounds like you are on top of it although I'd take the pain medication with some laxative and that should help that problem and ease your pain.

Re the numbness - nerve pain does that along with strange buzzing (like being plugged into a socket), tiny spasms, blah blah blah - you get used to that as long as you can get rid of the pain.

Not sure about physio prior to fixing - I was seeing a chiropracter and it didn't really help but physio after fix is fabby. Other people here know tons more than me but I am the oldest survivor lol

Welcome and good luck!

Thanks for the reply allypally999, and sorry about your back trouble. This is all new to me and I have a whole new appreciation and empathy for anyone who has a back problem . It really does suck.

When you say 'fix' do you mean surgery?

I'm going that I'll spontaneously heal

going=hoping

Well for me fix was surgery yes (I'm told I had no choice but that was years before I found this place). It is a lot better than before but I didn't realise I would be so restricted in what I can do or that pain would be my daily pal in different ways (referred pain, pain memory or even "in your head").

On the plus side I can walk, shop, sit mostly without pain but housework is a struggle (no really lol) as is cutting my toenails and lots of other things, long car journeys, sleeping sometimes but still heaps better than before. You can see I try to be grateful for the improvement but its not always easy.

Lol @ spontaneous healing - I wish!

allypally999 - I'm glad you got some relief but very sorry that you still suffer every day. It's funny how in such a short period of time my expectations of recovery have moderated. Right now I would be delighted to be able to look after my kids' basic needs, sit long enough to eat a meal, and not have to have a shower on my hands and knees

shmeegle It sounds like you have good grip of what's going on, well done for getting that MRi, and for ignoring the GP and going to A&E. I would agree that you should reconsider taking the codiene etc for pain relief, along with paracetamol (really important to take this actually as it works with the other meds really well) and drink prune juice, and take daily movicol etc. Are you taking stomach protectors with the anti-inflammatories (omeprazole or similar)? if not, ask your GP for this to prevent stomach ulcers.

Other than that, heat is great for back pain, using gel packs, or hot water bottle (be careful not to put directly onto the skin as it can burn the skin) or electric heated pads/wraps, wheat wraps etc, they are all good. try to get a good mixture of resting and gentle movement as completely stopping is not good, but, neither is continuing 'as normal' especially with high pain and the nerve being aggravated.

It's worth asking your neurosurgeon (presuming that's who you'll be referred to) if injections would be beneficial, but, if the radiographer's off the record info is correct that there is a nasty prolapse, there will be no spontaneous healing I'm afraid! (you already know that really don't you?!) Discs can heal, but they take a long time, and if the nerve is being trapped, which is sounds like it is - numbness and butt/leg pain is nerve related usually), then you/your surgeon will need to weight up the benefits of waiting for this to heal vs potential long term damage to the nerve.

I couldn't stand on my tiptoes, left in particular, and just thought it was because I had poor coordination in my body balance classes until I did the tests to check this out - felt so much better for always falling over when doing the airplane pose etc when I learnt this

God yes Schmeegle I remember those horrible days - always grateful I can shower (now that I can step over the bath to get in) and sit for long enough to be sociable (possibly visit the loo more often to disguise fact I need to move) over a lengthy meal. You will get there I'm sure!

I have rubbish balance but actually just got up and checked re tiptoes ... not a chance! . I also fall over a lot - specially when trying to put tights on - mostly just choose socks

Nope! can't do it! I can sort of on my right leg, a tiny bit but wobble as I try but not a chance on my left leg, I am no ballerina Muscles also shake as I attempt it. I still have significant weakness in my calf muscle etc in left leg since my initial discectomy in June 2013. At that time, my sciatic nerve was quite pinched, and for quite a long time, poor reflexes, numb calf and outside of foot/toes etc, and when my surgeon checked my reflexes before surgery this last time, I still have some sensation changes and reduced strength in my left leg. I guess that I won't ever get that back. My right leg is stronger than the left, despite being pinched by bone etc.

Not sure you should even be attempting this Pavlov - there is no stopping you lol!

My left leg is still a bit ropey after 7 years but you can still improve for 3-4 years so don't give up. I'm not as numb as I was and it makes no difference to my life . Funny that leg has always been in trouble since I sprained my ankle at 19 or so - physio can strengthen one leg over the other if you are bothered

ally I think I can live without standing on my tiptoes for now although, I will hopefully return to body balance in time (thai chi, power yoga, pilates, power yoga finish with thai chi to music) and that may well strengthen the muscles again, but will probably have to do simple pilates/yoga for a little while first, as body balance is a little faster.

I can't drive my car well I think I have found the answer to my increased pain over the last few days - sitting down. I've increased the amount of sitting I have done, not consciously, but just as I have 'normalised' my day to day behaviour. I had been actively avoiding sitting, but it's crept in, eating meals, driving the car for school runs (not driving at all other than that), sitting rather than laying on the sofa and in bed while MNing and face booking using the computer and reading. And, in the car on the way home today, it hurt like fuckery, a deep pressing pain that goes down my legs, both legs but the right one more than the left. Really, really deep pain. It is also making me stiff and sore to bend, even at the knees. I have to do the school run every day except fridays, so will have to try to avoid sitting in other ways. DS is poorly, so he is not swimming, and just picked DD up from school, she is complaining of a headache and sore tummy doesntwanttogoswimmingitis and I just said oh ok, lets all go home and watch a film and snuggle, as I can't face driving to the pool, waiting around for half hour, driving home again in rush hour traffic. And, we get a new automatic car in a week or so, maybe the position of the new driving seat/and being a new seat will be easier on my back, although my right leg is the worst pain wise and that's the accelerator leg. Hopefully, not having to use clutch or handbrake constantly will help ease it all generally.

Not sure what meds are best for this pain. I have taken 200mg tramadol today, along with naproxen and paracetamol, not due any more tramadol for another 2 hours, and it's not really helped to be honest. I had a hot bath earlier and was lovely while in it, but didn't help longer than that. I do have some oramorph left from surgery, not sure if I should have some of that, or take some codeine, I would normally take codeine, so I might do that, but will wait til DH is home as I got to drive to get him.

ally and, in terms of not stopping, hell no! Although, I do absolutely have to slow down more and have had a couple of days of not doing much (yesterday I did nothing at all really). I am going to a festival in May, and going to USA in August. Although, actually, I am a little worried about the travelling to, and while in, USA, but it's for a wedding, and it will be a great family gathering so not going is not an option. The festival, well, that's gonna be a real test, but LOVE festivals and can't go to the one I would normally go to in August.

Wow Pavlov might have to start calling you wonder woman .

Yes the sitting is hard at first and you already know you are doing too much instead of building up slowly. You will be fine for travel by August, I'm sure. You are young and clearly used to doing tons and keeping fit and it all helps. I never did much (though I was a gym bunny in my 40s when this all started) so can't suddenly expect to run a marathon. Like that old joke about not being able to play the piano but couldn't before anyway. We did actually go to Canada when I could barely move (too tight to cancel and lose money) and I hobbled around in a druggy daze in agony - lovely place though and it didn't do me any permanent harm?

I like doing nothing - doing lots of it since packing in horrible job!

I really haven't done huge amounts though, promise! apart form putting a heavy le crueset casserole dish into the oven and out again, forgetting I shouldn't be doing it til it was too late

I have another 3 weeks of official leave off work, agreed as Paid Disability Leave, and am hoping I'll be ready to return by then. I have a hydraulic desk so sitting for too long/standing in one position for too long is not hugely problematic, and they are good about me having to move away from my desk regularly/do exercises/walk etc. I would think I'll be on a phased return but will work this out properly with my boss in the coming weeks.

God girls, you've all been through the mill! Not that I wish any of you pain (!) it is so great to have found somewhere to read about other peoples' experience of back pain.

I'm lucky in that my parents live nearby and are doing pretty much everything for me while DH is at work. However I'm having a hard time explaining to them that the new tablets I got (lyrica) aren't actually going to fix my back, just make it feel better. God love them. They hate seeing me like this.

It's very interesting to hear you all chat about travel. Just a couple of days before this all kicked off for me, we booked our first ever family holiday , heading to France in June.

I haven't said it to DH but I just can't see that happening now.

I think I will take your advice re the codeine, paracetamol etc and will also ask GP about something to protect my stomach from the anti-inflam meds. Thanks for the heads-up ladies!

Just got word to see an ortho consultant at my local hospital this Thursday. I don't think there is a neuro one there. In any event, for injections/surgery I'll have to go to Dublin. And so it begins!!

schmee good luck with your ortho appt. Sometimes ortho deal with disc problems, and it may be that if surgery is offered, he will refer you to a neuro in Dublin? It's great that you have help around you, shame it's so tough to explain that meds don't fix things. How old are your children? It's really bloody hard to deal with this kind of relentless pain with children. I have no family close by, but am fortunate enough to have a fabulous DH who has sacrificed his own career to care for me and the children and pick up where I had to stop. That doesn't mean he doesn't get bothered by it.

Yes pavlov, if the local ortho refers me to an ortho in Dublin, I'll get my GP to do a referral to a neuro in Dublin and see what each of them think.

I have two boys, 5 and 3. I'd never cope on my own when DH is at work. I really do feel for you not having family close by to help, that must make the whole situation doubly hard!

Hello, I've not posted here before it trying to learn from you all. I don't suffer from back pain but my DH has been through hell and back in the past year. He had a major episode last January- was in agony and unable to sleep for about 5 weeks. As he had private health care he was seen by a specialist quite quickly, had an MRI and a steroid injection which kickstarted his recovery. He has herniated disks L4/L5 and L5/S1 and degenerative disk disease.
He has been almost pain free for several months and started doing quite a bit of cycling.

Unfortunately last night he had a major relapse, I had to take him to the OOH GP who gave him some codeine and diazepam. Saw the GP today - got some naproxen too and a referral to specialist. However sadly we don't have private insurance any more. I want to pay to see the consultant but we were told it might take longer !

Dh has been in agony since last night. Unable to sleep, he can't sit or lie down. The meds don't appear to have kicked in yet although he's taken more than he should.
He is also very low emotionally and has been crying a lot. The last episode affected him badly, almost like PTS sometimes but he has refused to see a therapist so far.
He is in such dispair and can't see any hope and has said doesn't want to go on living. He can't face another long period of constant pain and sleepless nights.

I am so desperate to help him get through this but I am at a loss how to make things better. If anyone has any tips for alleviating the initial agony of acute spasm I would be grateful!

Hi Schmeegle and welcome to the club that nobody wants to join. Luckily it's a place where at least other people 'get it' and you can moan to your hearts content,swear, cry and even talk about other stuff. Back pain just impinges on every single part of your life..

I so agree about it being hard to explain to people that none of this is going to go away any time soon. With discs, as Pavlov says, almost all will get better eventually but we are talking about two years and then because the disc has dehydrated so much it is no longer pressing on the nerves. Surgery is pretty good for leg pain but much less so for back pain. With a first major episode it is your opportunity to avoid surgery if you possible can so definitely try injections, meds, rest, heat and gentle physio in the first instance. That is so long as you have no Red Flags for CES. I'm sure you have been warned about this. We have a mantra on here: rest, potter, rest. Do you work?

Although we are an unlucky bunch on this thread with a lot of spinal surgery and complications do remember that most people who have disc prolapses get better and aren't lying on their beds half the day posting on here .

Lastly ( unless I start twittering about something else), travel as far as is necessary to see the best possible surgical opinion. Surgeons vary enormously as I, unfortunately know only too well. Good surgeons will only operate if alternatives have been tried, the benefits out way the risks or you have such severe symptoms that urgent surgery is required.

Oh ( told you) don't rule out your holiday, travel is possible, if difficult. We have tons of experience on this. Are you driving and if so how far? I've done a lot of travel now.mi won't lie, it isn't easy but for me, preferable to staring out of my bedroom window every day of my life.

marcelene, hello. Sorry your DH is in such a state of agony. Keep reassuring him that acute episodes pass. His back will be in acute spasm. If he is still in agony after all his meds ( is he taking them regularly, including the diazepam?) then go to A&E. He can get an injection to relieve the spasm.

Is he using a hot water bottle? Sounds lame but heat actually helps me more than any drug sometimes. And proper massage can help. Amytriptiline helps leg pain as does gabapentin. Using a mix of meds is absolutely the right thing to do. If you are worried about his mental state you must get urgent help for him.

Re going private,mw here a outs are you roughly? In London where I am you can expect to wait approx 6months for a neurosurgical appointment on the nhs and a week privately. The problem is that the appt is one thing but private surgery costs thousands. If you want the name of a great London surgeon pm me.

Hope that helps a bit. He is not alone. If you feel it's necessary call an ambulance and get him to A&E. Let us know how you get on.xx

Ps sorry all a bit mixed up. I've had a lot of drugs.

marceline the acute phase of pain relapse is so debilitating and it can feel like it will never get better than this. But it will, this horrendous acute phase will ease, even if he remains having further problems that need longer term solutions, this initial hell will fade. He needs to take the meds given, and as the pain that is stopping him from moving is very likely to be muscle spasms/lock he needs to take the anti inflammatories and diazepam as prescribed. Also get him to use heat, which we advocate here. I personally found when I had acute pain that laying on my back with my knees bent helped the pain, or lying on my side with my knees up to my chest. Is he using pillows between his legs on his side? If not, worth a try, or pillows propped under his knees.

Paying for surgeon's consultation is not a bad idea, but it would be better to pay for an up to date MRI first/instead of, as it sounds like the flare-up might be due to something changing. The surgeon will not be able to make a fully informed decision on what's going on without a new MRI to be guided with. Did the GP suggest MRI route? If the MRi shows something that needs to be addressed urgently, he can then ask your GP to fast-track a referral to consultant based on it.

He can also come and chat here himself if he wants. It doesn't have to be girls only, although he might need to be up for some internet shopping and drinking if he wants to fit in

Does he have leg pain? Does he/you know about the red flags that matilda mentioned in her last post? It might be worth a link to them as there are some new posters with new back problems.

The biggest thing for him right now is to not panic, as that tenses muscles even more and makes spasms worse, he needs to try to relax as much as he can, another good reason to take the diazepam.

oh, and yes I agree with matilda if the meds are not controlling his pain, that in itself is a medical emergency and he should go to A&E for them to help stabilise his pain. They won't do anything else in terms of diagnosis, but they will make him more comfortable hopefully (unless he has red flag symptoms, in which case they may do further investigations and an MRI to check for Cauda Equina Syndrome)

ladies. I have been reading about a swimathon for a spinal care charity. It's in April so a bit too soon for me to do it this year, and I know it's a long way off for next year, but would anyone be interested in doing a 'team' swim? There is, I think, a target of something like 5k, but it doesn't have to be done by each person, we could all (who might be interested) think about what we might be able to achieve as part of the team, so a length, or two lengths, etc and try to make the total together. We could raise some good money for the charity I think.

Or, if we don't want to do this particular swimathon/wait until next April, we could arrange a collective swimathon ourselves. We wouldn't all need to be in the same pool, we could arrange it to be done in our local pools on a set day/week.

Just an idea as I would like to do something useful.