Could this be PND?

[emmatmg]

DS3 is almost 7 months old and I just feel awful.
Everything is a horrible chore, I shout and scream at DH, DS1+2 for no real reason. Everything irritates me.
I can't remember when I was last really happy and not just acting happy IYSWIM. I always feel like I'm struggling against everything to get a result.
DS3 is an absolute darling and I adore him more that words can say but he is the only thing that makes me feel even remotely happy.

I didn't have any feeling like this after DS1 or 2 so I'm not sure if all this is just the way life is with 3 kiddies under 5.

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

Sorry for such a miserable post.

Hiya em, sorry to hear your having a bad time.My feelings started off very similar to yours and the Doc said it was just stress from lack of sleep and hard work with two under twos.

However 3 weeks later after i hadnt been out in that time and id more or less stopped communicating with DP also struggled to get dressed and put on a false persona if talked to friends on phone(which i usually ignored), the doc changed his mind and prescribed me Fluoxetine.

i now feel a hundred percent better and the house hold is a much happier place, so i think it may be worth talking to someone about how you feel incase you go on a quick decline like i did.

Good Luck and let us know how you get on. You can e mail me if you like

Thanks Charlie. I have to admit I was really hoping that someone would say 'Oh no that's exactly how I feel and I HAVEN'T got PND'

Sounds ridiculous but I feel it's just another thing for me to sort out

Sorry to hear this. If it is any help I'm pretty sure that it is perfectly normal is you do have 3 under 5, but I would probably ask your hv to drop in. GPs seem to go down the anti-d route, and that may not be what you need. Depends if you have any faith in your hv of course - they do vary. And they seem to have some questionaires now which can at least give you a feel for the scale of things - you might be surprised at how "normal" it is.

With 3 under 5 your hv really ought to manage a home visit without too much fuss...

Haven't actually seen my HV since DS3 was a few weeks old. I do see differnet ones at the clinic where I go to get him weighed but they all vary so much it really would be a major gamble talking to any of them about it.

Don't think i do want anti-d's, not entirley sure why though. I didn't even get baby blues with DS1+2 so this feels like a big failure for me.

Well it's a big step from where you've been to taking ads. And it really isn't a failure - let's face it, you must be run off your feet: I dread to think what your laundry pile must be like, let alone feeding everyone and getting everyone where they're meant to be. The problem with another little one is that all the mundane reptitive bits of being a mum just seem to rush round even faster.

Sorry I haven't had time to search your history as it were, but do you have any opportunity for me time at all? I have found that even to get a few hours a week makes such a difference. I've made sure that it is done via creche or something so that its not eating too much into dh's time.

I also find getting out and spending time with other mums makes a huge difference - as much as I find mumsnet supportive, some rl friends really help too.

Emmatang, wheni left Docs the first time i was on top of the world to be told my feelings were all normal infact i came on Mums net rejoicing the fact and then later posted under a different name saying i had PND as i felt so bad about it.

Hopefully i will only be on the tablets for 6 months, that is my aim anyway. Im quite sure that i can beat this, im doing excercise and really trying to be posotive.

My docter was right first time i think not to instantly prescribe anti depressents but the change he saw in those 3 weeks in me was apparrently quite dramatic and he wouldnt have prescribed me them if he didnt think they would help. Which they have.

Give yourself a few more weeks and see how you feel, i also think the weather has a part in peoples moods. Ive had a fab week with all this sunshine

hi and sorry you are feeling bad emmatmg. Your post reminds me of how i felt about 6 months after my third was born.
I also have small gaps and i think that was what made things harder for me. My eldest is 6 then i have 4, 3 and 2months.
the gap between 2nd and 3rd was 17 months so when 3rd started crawling etc 2nd still needed a lot of supervising and attention too. gap between 3rd and 4th was nearly 3 years and is so much better.
at the time i was just how you are. it was just constant stress and i felt totally overwhelmed. also going to 3 was a big change as no longer one to one ratio!!
I am still irritable sometimes but i dont have that overwhelmed thing. the responsibility of having lots of small children is quite scary - it requires so much alertness which is hard when you are tired. i think it is very stressful so no wonder you are feeling as you do.
sorry to ramble hope it makes sense. typing with baby on knee!
not sure if i had pnd or was just tired and overwhelmed. we moved to a bigger house and that helped. my dh does fewer hours at work this time round so that makes things better.
do you get much help? sure you must need a break. i think you need someone to look after you a bit and for you to be as kind as you can to yourself. i needed a lot of support and understanding from my dh. just someone to hear how i felt without judging. can you tell a friend how you are really feeling? can you get some time out?
does your eldest go to school? things got better for me when ds1 started. hope i dont sound awful - i do love them all so much but have been on the brink of insanity several times over last few years!! I often think that my day consists of crisis management and damage limitation and not much fun for me or the kids.
you are not alone.
sorry for long message. not so much a message as a stream of semi consciousness!

LadyM, Well does 1.5 hours at Asda or Tesco's count as me time? Honestly that really is all there is. When I was PG I remember talking to my friend about joining a gym with creche once baby was born but to be honest the thought of exercising fills me with dread. I'm tired enough as it is (7 months old and still waking for a feed!!!) so exercise is not appealing.

Charlie, I really feel like my mood has changed over the last few week. Easter holidays! and that's part of the reason why I asked 'COULD this be PND?' because it's been such hard work and I didn't know if I was confusing the feelings of feeling run ragged by all the noise and koas or if it was really PND. does that make sense?

Keziah, Yes Ds1 is at school and back tomorrow. Ds2 goes back to nursery tommorw too. Hoo-Bloody-Rah. I thing DH is blissfully unaware of PND as I didn't have any thing at all with the other 2. We had a tiny fleeting acknowledgment of my mood yesterday when after I said something about being fed up he asked if I was depressed, and all I could manage was "well I'm hardly full of the joys of spring". He wouldn't know the first thing about PND and I only know a little.

I'm sorry you are feeling down Emmatmg. I have had pnd twice, I tried to ignore it and pretend everything was ok the first time, but it really wasn't and I was miserable for a long time. Eventually I did get better on my own. When I had my second I was fine at first and when he reached about 8 months I got pnd again, this time I couldn't just ignore it, it was too bad. The HV sent round a pnd councillor who was really good, she came round about once a week and gave me support and encouragement. She also encouraged me to go to the dr, I was put on fluoxetine, and within a few weeks I felt so much better, I was on it about 7 months, and i've felt fine ever since. I'm not saying this is necessarily the route you need to take but I do think that you should talk to somebody professional (dr/ hV) about it to get some advice. Hope you are feeling better soon.

Em, i still find everything hard but in my self i can cope with it better and smile about it. I dont think pnd does make sense as there are different levels of it, we cant all feel the same way same as every pregnancy is diferrent.

It is confusing trying to work out if your run down, depressed or just plain old knackered. And if we dont know how does our doc know?

I just know i feel better now, but i still havnt told my partner. In your heart you will know if this is a passing thing or not, its not surprising you feel how you do with your brood. You could see how it goes once school starts again. Its your thing about everything irritating you that hit a nerve wih me and not being able to remember when i was last happy. Dont be too hard on your self, your allowed to have off days and hopefully thats all it is.

I hope this makes sense, i try to give advice but not very good at it.

Charlie, you've just got it exactly right. I'm pretty sure this ISN'T a passing thing.

Em, try and give it another week or two and see what happens with your mood. I went to being very irratable, moody and a horrible person to a miserabler, horribler and mute person. I couldnt be bothered with the irriation anymore, too much effort

Good luck and im always around for a chat if you need one.

Thankyou.

Have sent a mail via MN to you Charlie.

Such a shit day feeling utterly miserable and everything feeling like a ordeal.

Doctors tomorrow I think.

can anyone tell me if the symptons for PND are like REALLY bad PMS?

Hi emmatmg, sorry you're feeling awful. It's hard to tell if it's PND or just being down, tbh. But you could try the edinburgh test for pnd here as used by hvs to diagnose depression. It might help you decide whether it's normal 3 under 5 (enough to be very hard work I'd have thought) stuff or pnd. There are also a few other threads, one that springs to mind is the difference between depression and just unhappiness I hope there's something helpful there.

Well I just scored 16 on the test that HV's use.

Thankfully I was able to answer 'No, never' on the last question though. it scares me that it could get that bad.

Hi emmatmg
Feel for you reading your first message and current. You describe, what to me is PND, so well in your first message. I had forgotten all those awful negative feelings that you carry with you and can't pass on to anyone. I had PND with DD but nothing with DS. I have written an article about my experience because it had such an affect on my whole life. I found completing the Edinburgh post natal depression scale (EPDS) invaulable because it confirmed to me that I was not going round the bend but had an actual illness which could be treated. For me the anti-d route was not even a consideration. I felt too frightened to go that way. IF you have time, read the article and I can send you a copy of the EPDS if you want to see how you score on it. It's not every hv's choice of finding out whether you have PND but for me, it was the only offer of help I had.
The positive thing for you is that you are talking about it - I can relate to the DH reaction. They haven't got a ruddy clue about what it's all about. (In my view!!)
What I found (and am still finding) is how up and down it all is. You can be smiling one minute and the next want to hide in a corner and make everything and everyone go away. I wouldn't wish on anyone but you do get better and you can help the speed of recovery. Thank you for sharing your feelings with us.
Web site address for magazine article is
\linkwww.familiesmagazine.co.uk{}
and search for PND article

Sorry about repeating what has already just been posted. The two previous messages were obviously being sent just as I was writing mine. Great to see the EPND available on-line. I scored 20 on my first attempt and like you was pleased to answer no to the last q. too!

Emmatmg, did you see your gp today? How are you feeling? Don't answer if this makes you feel hassled, just wondered and came to this thread to see if you'd posted. Thinking of you.

Thanks WWW, Do you know what I do feel abit better and I think it's simply because people are thinking about me and not me constantly thinking about others first IYSWIM.
I've been very active in trying to solve this and have told my friend and DH and the HV (who I've only met once when DS3 was tiny) is comimg today so hopefully I can 'nip this in the bud' as they say.

I was wondering though, how does it gets better if I decide NOT to go down the Ad's route, I'm not sure what I want to do at the moment but it does concern me that this could go on and on if I don't use them.

hi emma
only just read your thread and its sounds so familiar to me, it's like a flasback to how i felt just a few months ago. I too was completely against taking any medication, but I did and it was amazing how quickly they made me feel better. This was also true for a friend of mine who has gone through the same thing and now feels much better too. It helped having someone to talk to who was 'in the same boat', to support each other through the bad days. Also tell DH how you feel, he might nitrealise how bad things are and that might get you the 'me' time you so obviously need. Also for info and support try www.pnd.org lots of information and a volunteer to support you if you wish, mine was fab. Good Luck with the HV

hi emma i know exactly how you are feeling my ds is nearly 5 months and ive finally realised how i feel isnt normal.ive had some family and financial problems since january time and put my feeling down ,down to this but theyve now gone away and im still feeling bad if i admit it probably feel worse.ive actually made an appointment to see my gp on friday as im making my familys life miserable at the moment.its a wonder to be honest my partners still with me and my poor dd has had a hard time of it too,im ashamed to admit.it all came to a head yesterday with my dp telling me either get to the docs or leave.....can i just say hes been very supportive of me but it was the kick up the bum ive needed.
to be honest though im scared stiff of seeing the doctor ,im not the type to admit loss of control easily and to me this makes me admit im failing as a parent.i know this is the pnd talking . i just hope my gp is sympathetic and im not to keen on the idea of councelling etc im a bit of a loner by nature and not a great talker to strangers so that worrying me on top of everything else.
anyway i'll stop rambling now and just thought id post to say your not alone in feeling like this,and i hope we both and anyone else who feels like this gets better soon.
hugs

karenanne, just popped in and read your thread. I wish you luck tomorrow with your visit to your GP. I had PND with my dd1 and tried to put a 'brave face on it'. I was totally out of my depth. Luckily one close friend admitted to me whilst I sobbed on the phone to her that she too had suffered PND and it was so comforting to hear. When I finally plucked up courage to go to my GP, she was great and let me sob. The feeling of a great weight lifting of my shoulders is one that I will always remember. I realise now that not talking about PND is probably the worst thing to do. My immediate family, once they realised I was struggling rallied around. All the best for tomorrow.

Having suffered from depression in the pasdt, and currently being treated for PND, I wanted to add a few words of reassurance...
Reasearch has shown that there is a direct link between intellect and depression - the cleverer you are, the more likely you will suffer.

Makes me feel better anyway!