The Back Pain Emporium, Internet Shopping, Drugs and Dealing with Doctors. Thread 6.

[MatildaTheRedNosedReinCat]

For anyone experiencing back pain it can be a very scary time. What is wrong? Who can help? How long will this last? We,on this thread are here to support you;offer empathy and help to navigate the almost impossible task of getting a diagnosis and the right treatment.We are not doctors but people who have trodden this path slowly and painfully. We also chat a LOT and welcome all newcomers. It is strictly non competetive regarding pain and no niggle is too minor.

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn. And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us. Not to mention the pain of dealing with claiming disablity benefits .

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly,sometimes drink wine , have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a brew and say hello

This is our 6th thread, here is the 5th, which has links too the others:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/a2203923-Back-Pain-and-Internet-Shopping-Thread-Number-5

Hi everyone. Been feeling a bit unsociable recently. Hope you are all OK.

DH went back to work today so it's down to us to walk the dog. Trouble is we have snow (which I love) but it isn't easy on the back to walk in! Luckily the dog escaped after DS let him out for a wee this morning. He didn't realise until the dog woofed at the front door meaning he had run off over the hill - probably frightening a few a few little dogs on leads on the way - and finally come back round the road. I reckon that's him walked until this afternoon!
Pink I've been thinking but it's hard to come up with something without knowing you better. I reckon though that many jobs must be easier on the back than yours!

Afternoon everyone. Feeling very tired today. I started taking the amitrip. again 5 days ago as I had a day with very bad nerve pain. Cue me feeling awful today. Had to call in sick at work as I physically couldn't wake up until 1030. Feeling very down at how long this has taken and the effect on my body and well being.

Need something else other than amitrip I think for the nerve pain as what I am taking gives visitors poor quality of life. For whatever reason the GP surgery this week isn't offering an appointment service but 'sit and wait' which sounds like hell on earth but I have already been to OOH once this holiday for more tramadol and they would only give me 20 (unlike the bloke who gave me 100 a few weeks ago ) as they didn't believe me and said as it's controlled I needed to get more from my GP. Had already been waiting an hour so didn't argue (had already been told by the nurse that they could refuse to give me it at all, regardless of effect on me from doing that) and just left.

*visitors = such ... DP gave me a tablet for Christmas and I can't get the hang of the keyboard.

Ins, so sorry you are having such a crap time. Tbh it might be best to get signed off work for a while and allow yourself to be ill. Re the amytriptiline, it does, I promise, get better if you stick with it. I take mine at bedtime (10.30ish) and sleep more or less through the night until 7.30-8. I do have to drag myself awake but then I'm awake properly. If it's helping the nerve pain then you should stick with it. 10mg is a tiny dose. When you get to see your proper GP you can discuss options but really you need the results from the MRI to plan ahead.

Gabapentin is good for nerve pain but also causes drowsiness at first so I wouldn't add that until you are over the ami effects. Are you taking paracetamol with your tramadol? I think you've said yes to that before.

For now it's rest, potter, rest and chase that MRI. You've clearly got an injury that needs attention and it's bloody disgraceful that you have waited so long for any answers.

hollie, waves, glad dog walked himself. Mine would sit and cry on the doorstep . Hope you are feeling ok.

pink, I, too have been wracking my brains for job options. Tbh, working as a hca in maternity is bloody hard work. It involves a lot od moving beds around, cleaning rooms at high speed and being incredibly busy most of the time. And helping women to bf is a true back killer. Reception work might be a much better option? That doesn't have to be in healthcare, could be at health club etc. That generally involves quite a bit of moving around rather than sitting for very long periods. Retail? It's tough to think of jobs that aren't too physical or involve long hours of sitting. Will keep thinking.

Advice please. Am in London. Yesterday overdid it and ended up in so much pain and floods of tears as it was so bad. Rough nights sleep because of the pain. This morning went for a wee and I can only trickle slowly. Been this way ever since. No numbness and no incontinence so not sure if it's a problem?

inscan you ask for telephone convo with gp, instead of going in to sit and wait? If you find Amy works for nerve pain but side effects dont ease, you could ask for Nortriptyline, it's a cleaner version, in terms of side effects. It's more costly which is why they won't offer it straight away.

Ooh won't give good amounts of controlled drugs, or stuff like diazepam, just enough to tide you over til you get to own gp. Last ooh I saw for emergency diazepam, was told off by his boss fir prescribing me 28 x 2mg tablets. she wanted him to reduce to 10!! He gave me 14 x 2mg as even he didn't think 10 was enough. Another time, few years ago, I was literally given 3 tablets til the next morning when I could see my own gp!

msdj A&E. Any changes of bladder function need to be checked when you have lumbar disc problems, especially when they coincide with pain spike. Hopefully all ok. But needs checking, sooner rather than later. Sorry you have high pain.

My back 'went' too. Back at work today, bad idea. Couldn't drive the car back properly, had to lift legs into the car and drive slowly, crying with pain!

Kids have absolutely destroyed their bedroom. Completely and utterly. Friend visited with her child, took advantage of me not able to monitor and friend feeding her baby. So upset. Friend is making them clear up, organising them, I feel so embarrassed, it was pretty messy before, but now it's like we've been burgled badly. They just don't respect their things, don't know how to get them to take care of their things. And I can't do a thing to help today.

Thanks Matilda and pavlov. I waited for two hours in total at GP's (am having a good day pain-wise, just feeling down and lethargic). I have the MRI results but they are as follows:

Lumbar scan: Minor L3-4 disc degeneration
Cerviothoracic: No abnormality identified

In order words they think I'm completely healthy, bar the degeneration which the GP said a) doesn't explain my pain and b) they can't do anything about anyway. He is very new and so needed to get senior advice but has swapped the amitrip for something else (I don't have the time to wait for it to go away) and has agreed to refer me to Mr S. as long as I drop the name in in a letter address to the new GP ASAP for a second opinion on the scan disc, although he said that could also cause logistical difficulties as the scan copy is held by the hospital. He asked me what I was hoping to get out of it. I said if Mr S says all clear then fine I will accept it, but I'm not accepting the first result of that hospital. GP said that was reasonable. He was professional but also clearly doesn't like the hospital either.

I asked what happens if Mr S comes back all clear, he said that since they can't find a physical cause for the pain I would get referred to the pain clinic. They also aren't particularly happy with the amount of pain meds I am taking.

Whilst I understand that a lot of pain is psychological and I fully recognise that I can be a wuss at times, I am so desperate to get back to work and to normal that I can't believe it is the case for me.

pavlov Don't feel embarrassed - that is what friends are for. And I can well remember doing what my DM's friends said (if they told me off) more than her because I was so embarrassed to be called out on behaviour that seemed (at the time!) perfectly fine if it was towards my parents. Some people never learn respect for belongings DP but otherwise I think you have to learn the hard way. It got to the stage that DM docked our pocket money for anything left on the floor and refused to replace anything that we broke. She also, on occasion, binned things we had left out after repeated reminders. It worked most of the time, although it's a waste of money. I have read on MN before about parents (of teenagers) who strip the rooms if it gets really bad and make their children earn each item back. It's a pretty drastic measure though and it sounds like yours are just having a bad day or week?

The nice GP printed me off the MRI report. From a bit of googling it seems that the consultant who looked at the results is based in Plymouth and has contracted their services to this company. The consultant is an expert in musculo-skeletal imaging. Not sure what to think now... whether it's good or bad that they didn't come from the same hospital.

Second opinion is importAnt, especially given you injury and pain. I have a retrolethesis (vertebral slip) which is quite minor and not picked up until formal neuro appt some 15 months after my first scan. It's tiny, hard to spot, but significant in terms of pain and impact on other issues. I wonder if you would benefit from contrast dye MRI, because I don't know if normal MRI shows ligament and nerve damage, only entrapment. Your pain means something is happening, and there are ligaments etc in places i didn't know we had them in our spine!

GS is good. He is, from my brief experience, honest, explains well, and i will let you know my thoughts on his surgical skills end of next week onwards!

Ins, all I can say is this, Mr S looked at my scan disc ( which had been reported by InHealth and also given the ok by surgeonbastard no 1) and immediately pointed out the severe nerve compression which was totally obvious to even me, when shown it. The same thing almost exactly happened to pav. So, no, don't accept there is nothing wrong with you. Problem is that back pain becomes very complex. First the injury, then nerves being impinged, then severe muscular pain from misalignment and altered posture... It might now, be worth seeing a specialist physio or osteopath (an extremely gentle one) to see if they have any advice on any of this. My back pain is mostly muscular, apparently due to altered posture and is much harder to control than the nerve pain.

Pavlov, I feel your pain. Hold on in there. My two naughty Neice and nephews did the same thing not long ago. Again with a friend, they tipped out absolutely everything into a huge mess. Every single box of Lego, Playmobile, jigsaws,the lot. I have to say, I would have had to restrain my smacking hand at that. It took my db seven hours to clear up. I think it's fair to say they won't do it again, they really were in trouble. It's like a red mist comes over dc sometimes. I agree with Ins that I'd be making them earn back their possessions after that. and btw! I'm sure it's not connected to your back, just a very,very silly thing to do. Are you working again tomorrow? Please factor in rest. I'm sure your surgery recovery will be improved by going in as good shape as possible. Vitamins? Massage?

I'm afraid I'm not having a good day. Did too much yesterday and knew it but it couldn't be helped IYSWIM? I have been really thinking about myself and my attitude to my meds and pain. I am very bad at taking the drugs when I feel relatively ok. My regime is supposed to be regular and therefore avoid spikes of pain but it feels so wrong to be swallowing strong drugs regardless of pain levels. I'm hoping that when I start using the patches I will be sensible enough to keep them on and not feel wrong for sticking on a patch even if not in extreme pain .

Msdj, I agree with others. A&E to be checked. Any change in the downstairs department is a Red Flag.

yes, that's so true about Mr S and my scan and matildas. completely separately and independently, he didn't know I know M. my local surgeon suggested there was not enough going on to warrant further surgery, my pain clinic guy tried to suggest it was neuropathic, Mr S showed me the scan, and as with m, clearly demonstrated quite significantly compressed nerves (he showed me what uncompressed nerves looked like, then compared and highlighted the problem areas).

My children are, alas, fucking messy. Well, not fully true. they love tidying up, just not their toys. And definitely not their bedroom. I do occasionally go in with rubbish bags and remove everything on the floor. I give them warnings and if they have not done it by the time I get in there, it all goes. I then let them earn a bag back each week, but really, they just don't care about their stuff enough, after the first week, maybe second, they are no long interested in what they have lost. They just dance around the room going 'more space!'

They have too much stuff. So we are going to go through it while I am off work, and they will have to get rid of 2 big boxes of toys each, either they can choose, or if they can't, i'll choose. We shall either sell things, or donate to charity.

I just felt so fucking useless that my friend had to take control of it. She was looking after her 9 month old who has a cold at the same time, made me a drink, sorted out drinks for the children, and yes to the children responding to her better than me, they just don't do what i ask them when it comes to tidying up. My friend said not to be embarrassed, tried telling me her house was a mess to (it's not, it's immaculate, her DP is seriously tidy and thus so is she now), and it didn't take too long as the children all helped.

Everyone has now gone to a birthday party - friend's boy who we have known since he was about 6 is now 21! early evening gathering for family and friends such as us, then he'll be off with his own mates I suspect, so not a late one for them. I was meant to go, but I can't.

matilda not working again until friday. One of my managers saw me, said I was very pale, looked in a lot of pain and should I be there. I told her what I needed to do work wise, she said cut corners send the reports to her to sign off and then go. one of my admin colleagues asked me if I should be in on friday, suggested I didn't come back til after surgery. I might consider taking the day as annual leave but I have people to see, maybe just a short day. Don't know why pain levels when through the roof when at work, not a stressful day, felt nice to be there, but involved walking to see a client downstairs and the doors are security doors and really heavy to open, could hardly open some of them, and to get to interview room I have to go through 8 doors in total and a jolty lift twice!

I was so worried driving the car, really shouldn't have done it, could lift the handbrake up, could barely use the foot brake, couldn't accelerate properly and couldn't turn my body to check blind spot! I drove so slowly never, never not been able to drive like that before, should have called DH to come get me/the car but I was already late to get him for work himself.

Oh I have really waffled on now haven't it? fucking tramadol

matilda I know what you mean about not taking meds when you feel reasonably ok pain wise, then getting the spikes of pain. I do it so often, never learn - think, I am improving, I don't need 150mg tramadol this morning, nor my 200mg normal dose at 2pm, so don't take it, by the evening, and definitely by the following morning, completely regret it. Hope you feel better by tomorrow and it's not quite so horrible for you.

And meant to say for your DB! Although my DS and this friend who was here today, did something similar about 18 months ago. I was furious, but hard to be so for long as they were only 3/4 years old then. Now they are 5, so they absolutely know better. DD aged 8 was less of the culprit, a little bit her, but she was witness and definitely should have let me or friend know.

DS was suitably sorry, I was upset more than angry, not crying or anything, just really sad, and i think that was worse than me being angry.

Thanks so much all.

My appointment is with a physio on 31.12 who will decide if I need further investigations.
so I guess I just need to hammer home the pins and needles and the inability to sit proverly now causing problems with my neck and jaw.

Fingers crossed I can get through to them, I'm exhausted. I will reply properly tomorrow when I am not feeling so disgusting. I've discovered tramadol and wine do not go together

I can't tolerate wine at all at the moment. Don't know why.
Was beginning to think I was having heart trouble this evening. I've been having left arm pain for days and had central chest pain tonight.
Fine now.
Am a nutter.

Hollie , have you been checked by a doctor who has told you that you are a nutter or is this a self diagnosis??? Left arm pain and central chest pain requires URGENT investigation. Going away isn't a sign that you imagined it or it must be heart burn. Please, please go and get checked over. I'm serious. [stern yet very concerned emoticon].xxxxxx

Wow you guys are so knowledgeable (not even sure I can spell it haha!) - I am in awe although I guess most of its comes from bad experiences with GPs/hospitals but still ....

You are so right about keeping taking the meds - due to stomach problems I cut back drastically and tongue is now much sorer as a result - back to tram and para and ibo - what a pillock I am! Why are we so stupid? I can blame the menopause when my last brain cells departed for good it would seem.

pav you really don't sound like you should be driving or working ... but I know we can't stop you .. you are unstoppable

msdj I had this for a bit and I think it might be one of the drugs but you need to get it checked out. I have had every available test done re bladder and bowel in my 30s and again in my 50s but basically nothing works and they have no idea why but back surgery has added a few additional issues which I am not sharing.

Good luck everybody in pain - I will be dopy and dozy and again soon.

holly I am most definitely a nutter too but aren't we all? Chest thing sounds like stress but you should get a real GP opinion just in case! Oops nearly said hon there - please forgive me if I do guys its just a habit. I'm sure I put a kiss on one of my emails to work the other day oops!

ally oh no, sorry the tongue pain has returned. I think it's a natural feeling to want to stop taking meds asap, so not a pillock, just wanting to get back to normal asap.

I am definitely not driving at the moment, and don't need to work again until friday, so hoping things will ease by then. I woke late after Dh let me have a lie-in, but slept badly due to a boy in my bed hugging me all night and my DH snoring and it being very warm. Diazepam has helped, woke feeling a bit better, but within minutes my back seized up again and I know if I do anything it will seize up fully again, so painkillers, sofa and internet shopping for me Even I frightened myself as my serious inability to drive the car yesterday, the pain and inability to move was worrying and I won't be doing it again until I know I can move myself and move my legs/no emergency stop etc.

Good day again today havent taken painkillers as back feels ok...no spasm but feels more stiff as if someone has kicked me.

Dr calling me a an hour or so am going to ask if I should carry on with painkillers, if I can venture out, and if I can go back to work next Tues.

I feel ok, not 100% but ok - wondering if Im rushing it or should just go with the flow

hollie definitely get yourself checked, its much better to have things ruled out than ruled in.

A friend of mine's partner has had some reasonable back pain for a few years, manageable, he is fit and healthy, sporty, bike rider, put down to things other than disc etc (relied too heavily on chiro and sports injury physios). He woke with excruciating pain, through the day his mobility reduced, eventually the pain was so bad and he was experiencing numbness in his leg and buttocks, went to A&E, sent home saying nothing serious going on. Went home, buttock numbness and other stuff increased, was again sent home. He was not seen by back specialist consultants and no MRI was offered. Was told to go via GP for MRi (or something like that). He went home, google frightened him, he paid £300 for private MRI the following morning, they kept him in, sent him straight over to A&E, consultant came down to see him and operated there and then as he had CES, his disc had prolapsed right into the CE space. He is SO lucky. He still has some numbness and is recovering well, but fucking hell, what if he had not paid for that MRI, who knows what damage would have been done before they actually took him seriously And the hospital know they should have done the MRI, as they have refunded him the cost of it. How many people have just been left like this? (we know of at least one person here that this has happened to), what if he didn't have the strength, or thought that he could challenge the medical opinions that twice sent him home?! Those opinions are ones that we trust, if we are told there is no medical emergency twice, why would we question that? why should we? I feel so cross. Luckily, for him, as I said, he is making a good recovery, helped by his own physical fitness meaning that he is bouncing back from the physical surgery, and luckily the damage doesn't seem to be extensive, but he should not have to rely on luck, he saw them twice within 3 days!

hula definitely rushing it! but, we are all guilty of that, me included. We want our lives back to normal as quickly as possible, and when it comes to work and family we often need to. If you are thinking of returning to work, I would suggest continuing the painkillers, the anti inflammatories in particular, as increased movement will seize you up a little, it will help you move about more. The GP will obviously be able to advise you too on whether he considers you work ready, but you need to know your own body too, and often the GPs are guided by whether we feel ready. Right now, do you feel ready? Do you think you could do your job as you are? Or, if you are keen to get back, could you/your work consider reduced hours (phased return so you still get paid) to get you back up to speed slowly, or could you do amended duties for a little while to build you back up?

These things are worth considering, as our employers to have a duty of care to us to help our health not be damaged further by work, while enabling us to try and return to work as we want and need to.

As Ive never experienced anything like this before Im sure not what to do...youre spot in with wanting to get our lives back to normal as soon as possible.

Im sat here now ok fairly comfortable with the odd twinge but nothing like it was before so perhaps that's why Im thinking "oh no where near as bad as it was a week ago so I must be ok".

Ive managed a bath and hair wash this morning - Dh helped and now Im sat here abit tired.

Work next week would be Tues, Wedn and Thurs but I would have to drive plus get DS to school and ready....answer is I dont know.

See what Dr says she hasnt called yet so assuming she will after surgery which is any time soon

Hi Hula glad you are feeling a bit better. I would definitely verge on the cautious side. I simply wasn't able to rest during my worst back years as I had toddlers to look after. This time my children are older and can look after me I was able to spend a good few weeks just resting and it worked!
Mulled that story is dreadful. but sadly not unbelievable.
Ally I hope that your meds have kicked back in and you are feeling a bit more comfortable again.
I'm feeling fine today but will go to GP if it comes back.
Off to brave the snow again now!

Hula if you still need help to get bathed I suspect you are not quite ready for work but of course might be by next week. Maybe try to do a little more each day and see what you can or cannot tolerate. Do not push yourself beyond the limits of what you can do comfortably. Also, if you are like me, and this is quite typical, the pain might not kick in until much later after an activity so you need to be very aware of what you are doing vs pain.

I also suspect your GP will say only you can decide if and when you are fit to work. Can you say what you do? Long periods of sitting aren't good but if you can move around, rest and possibly work flexibly or short days then it might be possible sooner than if, for example you work in a warehouse or nursing home.

For now, keep going with the rest, potter, rest mantra and congratulations for dong so well. It's been a very speedy recovery for on here even if you aren't back to normal.