The Back Pain Emporium, Internet Shopping, Drugs and Dealing with Doctors. Thread 6.

[MatildaTheRedNosedReinCat]

For anyone experiencing back pain it can be a very scary time. What is wrong? Who can help? How long will this last? We,on this thread are here to support you;offer empathy and help to navigate the almost impossible task of getting a diagnosis and the right treatment.We are not doctors but people who have trodden this path slowly and painfully. We also chat a LOT and welcome all newcomers. It is strictly non competetive regarding pain and no niggle is too minor.

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn. And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us. Not to mention the pain of dealing with claiming disablity benefits .

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly,sometimes drink wine , have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a brew and say hello

This is our 6th thread, here is the 5th, which has links too the others:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/a2203923-Back-Pain-and-Internet-Shopping-Thread-Number-5

no sorry tinsel but your MIL still wins ... my Mum used to hand things back with a "why would you give me this" ... some people just have no social skills at all which is why we stopped presents years ago with my nutty family

sorry you are back on the sofa .. have a wee drink and snuggle up with that lovely blanket

I have managed to eat tons and stay awake occasionally so not such a bad Xmas after all yay! Some of our favourite Xmas films seem different sober though lol

I agree matilda sometimes you feel you win over it but that blooming gorilla always gets his own back on you (no pun intended!)

oh msdj don't know what to say other than sorry! Hope you get more help from the referral

No. Sadly, Tins mil wins. Can you ignore tins like just not engage? DH does an excellent line in thIs - pause long enough that they knowyouve heard, then completely ignore and continue conversation. It might not be effective st someone who can .be so mean to own son. Mine were mild. There was no grandma face off. And BIL came solo. We sang round the tree badly wish we had a tv and exchanged gifts

Mine were very mild. DM going on to my DD "why isn't mummy holding you, why doesn't mummy pick you up, poor grand daughter "- well I would DM if I hadn't just had back surgery.

MIL going on to DH about us staying there as "she can't do anything anyway (meaning housework) and then you'll have a shorter commute"

1. I'm right here - I can hear you.
2. Have you noticed I can't sit for more than 2 minutes without bbeing in pain? How's that hour drive going to work then?
3. I just had back surgery- I'm not staying at your house.

msdj, hi, I was wondering how you were. Sorry it's not better news. I was told several times that if and injection was successful like your SIJ one, they could then perform something like Radiofrequency ablation which essentially burns the nerve out for up to two years, giving much longer pain relief. Worth asking about. Hopefully the specialist pain clinic won't write you off just yet. I have, in fact found the psychologist input very useful although it has been a lot of mindfulness and so on.

Ally, yay for eating food! Hope you continue to feel much better.

My parents have arrived and I am hiding up on my bed. I have run out of conversation already.

msdj that's a shitter. sorry to read your update. Hope you can enjoy winter wonderland a bit and that the pain clinic prove helpful

Matilda at least you were only hiding - I just refused to have mine in the house overnight on my return from hospital and just said I've booked and paid you a hotel - please don't come round before noon for the remainder of you stay. Mean? Maybe - but we've not argued this holiday

hi - had a good day today managed downstairs again, and quite comfortable. just some questions for anyone who has any advice:

Woke at 4.30am and seemed wide awake not sure why, felt a little uncomfortable but dont think this woke me
feel very tired - maybe to do with the early waking
Evenings start to feel very sick
When do I stop using painkillers - (Diclafenac/paracetomol) cant say if Im in pain as im using the pain killers

All started this Monday so only 6 days in

Hi all. tins there are no actual words apart from what the fucking hell? re Mil that is. I would never, ever be so rude as to not take gifts. Even if they were not quite to my taste, I would be extremely grateful that someone (for example DSis who bought the blanket) had gone to the effort of thinking of me, and would say how nice it was. I would keep it and bring it out when my family visited to show I still used it, and put it away the remainder of the time but they would not need to know I didn't really like the style. Fucking rude.

matilda hope the evening has gone ok ish with family and the rest of their visit goes well.

frosty your DM is not very kind saying those things to your DD, baby or not! your concerns about 1 hr trip post-op has me worried about my own imminent surgery. I am worried as I have a 4+ hour trip post surgery from the hospital to back home. I am worried that a) it's too soon after surgery to travel that far and b) they might realise that and keep me in longer c) if they don't keep me in longer I will damage myself by travelling so far. My nurse friend has said they may decide to give me some blood thinning meds such as warfarin (possibly injected by me) for a few days due to travelling so soo after surgery. I am starting to get a little worried about it. Mostly about it going wrong.

I actually have had a few really good days pain wise, linked completely with lack of movement, lifting, bending etc, ultra chilling, eating, drinking and so I said to DH yesterday, maybe I am recovering, and should postpone the surgery. He looked at me like this and and said that two-three days of lower pain does not equal recovery, and that bone trapping nerve will not suddenly disappear. I know he is right.

Especially as today we went for a nice winter walk on Dartmoor with lovely friends, fabulous walk seeing sheep, horses, rainbows - involved climbing over/through a wire fence, leg over it a little too high, followed by an excited happy DD later making me jump by running up behind me, grabbing my arms and leaning a bit onto me and going 'boo!' and so I jarred the back from impact and then also from sudden standing straight and tense from surprise. Screamed out in pain as it shot straight down my legs, shouted 'don't do that!' in front of other people. She was so upset, and so I was I that I had embarrassed her. I apologised to her immediately, told her I didn't meant to shout and I know she didn't meant to make me hurt, gave her a cuddle, but the damage was done, both to my back which was already seizing up from the walk/leg stretch, and also to her own pride. Worry that might have had a bigger impact on her that my problems before, she might remember that event and not in a good way as she grows older and it makes me feel very upset. But, I have reassured her as best as I can that it was my back pain that caused me to react badly and not her doing anything wrong. Hope it sinks in enough.

Now in bed, with codeine, warmth and largely a feeling of christmas having been successful, not least due to the absence of having to host family, or be involved in family politics this year.

Woke at 4.30am and seemed wide awake not sure why, felt a little uncomfortable but dont think this woke me - I wake with night pain, but not sure if this is what is causing the pain. it might be that you have had a twinge of pain that wakes you up, but not enough to be constant so not noticeable once awake as passed. Not sure though.
feel very tired - maybe to do with the early waking firstly, yes, 4:30am will definitely cause you to feel tired, even if you go back to sleep, broken sleep will increase tiredness, but also, your body processing pain and 'fixing' whatever has caused the back pain will use energy and will increase tiredness. I have chronic back pain, and the tiredness that goes with managing the pain can be as debilitating as the pain itself, which is why it's as important to rest as it is to move about, getting that balance right is the key, but not always easy.
Evenings start to feel very sick pain can increase sickness, as can tiredness. Also decreases appetite. Are you eating ok? Also, are you taking diclofenac after food, and are you taking stomach protecting medicine (omeprazole is one, there are some others, can't remember the names). What kind of sickness is it? Indigestion? I would suggest that you ask for your GP to prescribe you some stomach protectors, as diclofenac can increase the risk of stomach ulcers if used long term, and in particular if not taken on an empty stomach. The stomach protectors reduce the acid which can cause the ulcers and reduce the risk of stomach ulcers happening.
When do I stop using painkillers - (Diclafenac/paracetomol) cant say if Im in pain as im using the pain killers It's difficult to know when to stop, but, acute phases tend to last 2-3 weeks in terms of management, and continued use rather than sporadic use is better as it builds up in your system and gives your body a chance to heal with the inflammation reduced. I would personally recommend that you continue using diclofenac and paracetamol for at least another week. If your mobility is still reduced, even though improved, and if you have any pain, keep taking it. Remember to talk to GP about stomach protector such as omeprazole and then it is ok to take the diclofenac for a while. Paracetamol can be taken long term as long as dose doesn't exceed maximum.

All started this Monday so only 6 days in it's still early days. Frustrating as it is, you need to give this a little bit more time. Hopefully not too much longer. When I had acute phases of pain before my back problem became chronic, I was up on my feet and back to 'normal' about 3 weeks after the initial 'trigger' day, with around 1 week of severe reduced mobility, another week of slow recovery, and another week of moving back to normal again. So hopefully this will happen to you.

as diclofenac can increase the risk of stomach ulcers if used long term, and in particular if not taken on an empty stomach - there was a big error there. Diclofenac should NOT be taken on an empty stomach, it should be taken after food, although that doesn't have to be more than a bit of toast or some yoghurt if you can't manage much in the mornings.

Mulled has it on the nose, hula. As you say, six days in isn't much and if you are able now, on these meds, to rest, potter, rest, then that's good. Please, please check out a stomach protector and eat, though.

Mulled, sometimes it's so uncanny how people can think alike. Only today I realised that over the p st few days I've needed less analgesia and have been relatively ok. I have entirely forgotten that a couple of weeks ago I was barely able to function. Pain does such awful things to your head that I sometimes think it would be easier just to have it as a constant rather than fluctuating. Anyway, your DH is, sadly right. I sometimes even do silly things to test myself when I feel ok, just to flex the pain and check I wasn't just imagining it . Pain does seriously fuck up your head.

frosty, I like your style. 12.01, there will be an orderly queue at your door . How are you feeling? Do you think you are actually feeling the benefit of the surgery yet? ( please don't feel you should. After three weeks I felt a total failure for feeing crap and someone who'd had the surgery said 'three weeks? No, three months at least' which was reassuring.) I would have felt seriously at the remarks made by your dm to dd. I hope you have guilt tripped her all the way home. Ffs, who exactly would not pick up their baby for a cuddle ( other than someone with. Major injury requiring emergency surgery?)

My DP have behaved well. It's me. I'm horrid and find it hard but we have a gentle plan for tomorrow and db and family for dinner so lots of work but not too much inane chatter < which I do well in almost every other situation>.

mulled ah I'm sorry to have concerned you. I was just having a little moan about DH not getting that rest in my own bed is more important than him having a shorter commute right now. my own trip home was about 40 minutes and manageable as I was still taking tilidin (opiate), diazepam. I get pain after sitting now which apparently normal due to pressure in lower spIne and because I am only in 2 ibuprofen 600 mg a day. I got anti thrombosis injections in hospital. Is that the same perhaps as what your nurse friend told you? Is there any way at all you can get transported home lying down? Or take regular breaks to move? I too felt better in the last days before surgery. Sod's law messing with one's head. I was frankly batty with fear of it going wrong so I think that is normal. But I did tell my doctor and anethetist my fears. I said - I'm scared it won't work, I'm scared I'll be in more pain afterwards, I'm scared I'll wake up lame, I'm scared I'll die.

So then they were able to reassure me they'd done this many times before and give me a load of sedatives on the day of the operation I dunno your surgeon and anethetist are reassuring people but saying my fears out loud helped. I might have also told anyone who I came into contact with I had a small baby and a husband that loved me so they were to take extra special care that I was all right when is your operation?

thanks for the re-assurance frosty can't think of any way I can travel home laying flat, as nice as that might be i will talk to surgeon when I see him. I will email him via his secretary too and mention my worry about going home on the long journey. I think yes to the anti thrombosis injection, sounds like the same thing. Maybe I'll have to think about breaking up the journey by staying in a hotel on route back, half way or something.

The surgery part is fine, I think the fear is normal and to be expected. I worry I will wake up in more pain than I go under with, that I have fusion or am told it's worse than they thought, and of course the 'not waking up' fear, but that's less worrying that it being horribly worse than it should be when I wake up. I think mostly, I am worried about coming home such a long way, and wondering if this was such a good idea after all.

matilda glad your DPs are behaving ok. Good luck for tomorrow.

Oh and meant to say to frosty surgery is 7th Jan, go in 6th Jan. if there is a bed that is...

Matilda I'm one week 4 days post operation. Before Operation I could only lie with raised legs and walk with crutches to and from the toilet and everything else was agony of pain spasm fear pain despite opiates and valium. Now I'm largely pain free on 2 ibuprofen, I can walk around the house no problem but do get tired easily so still lying down a lot. I need a nap every day and can't sit for too long. Standing and walking are fine. I can wash and feed myself - not possible before. I do about 30 minutes a day outside. It's tiring but not painful. So in summary yes, I am definitely glad I went for it.

frosty oh wow, that's such fab news. Long may this recovery continue!

Frosty, that is awesome progress and you've had Christmas to contend with! too. So pleased for you.

Mulled, I think I am in the travelling home by car camp on the whole. Firstly you do have more comfortable seats probably and secondly you have more control over stops, rests etc. I only had an hour in the car to get home but did sleep all the way, dosed up on oromorph. I just had pillows and the front seat reclined a long way. It's annoying that the hospital haven't addressed this, as you say they must have similar situations all the time. Tbh I think asking the surgeon won't help much. Asking the discharge/ admissions team might be more help. Anyway, my experience was that they were generous with the oromorph so whichever option you choose you needn't be in pain.

frosty that is amazing

frosty sounds like you have your MIL beaten into chape - sadly sounds like tins MIL is beyond help

hula as ever Matilda beat me to it and put it better as well

As regards taking meds too long I have been suffering with terrible stomach pain and only googled it yesterday where it dawned on me its the ibobrufen (never can spell or say thatone) which I have been taking since mid Nov - oops - stopped that now and stomach already thanking me phew! Just saying as others have already that those ones you need to be careful with.

Agree with matilda (who is very wise!) that 3 months is the very minimum for recovery. I am the biggest wuss and I made it back to work (part-time) just on 3 months and never did go back to full-time. Also agree that mindfulness is very important and my AT guy has helped enormously with that - my back has behaved through this 2nd tongue surgery and recovery because I have been smarter about it and not ignored it. (Pat on back to self). On the plus side for you guys, the younger you have the surgery the better and faster the recover will be (I was 49). Not that you should be having it young but you get my drift. Also on a positive note - life is much less painful after than before honest - 7 years on and I can still do most things. Frosty is doing fantastically well - much better than I did!

mulled - I can only speak for my own journey home (30 mins - very slow) when hubby put the front seat right down so I was lying down on top of cushions and pillows - still a bit rocky but its all I have for you! That was 48 hours after so maybe they will keep you longer - fingers crossed! I see the others have beaten me to the post on this too - so slow and stupid here lol I blame the drugs. Maybe drugs are the answer for journey - hospital should be more blooming helpful!

Sorry if I missed anyone or muddled you all up which is also possible! Off to Asda now to stock up on soft things I like - am thinking pasta, cake, ice-cream woohoo!

Hello all, I hope it's ok for me to jump in again. I am totally rubbish at posting on long term threads but I keep on reading.

I fell down the stairs in Jan 2014 and finally have an appointment with a spinal specialist (well a physio who will decide if I need to see a spexialist) trouble is the last physio I saw at my local hospital basically told me there was nothing wrong with my back and I just needed to strengthen my muscles.
I left there feeling like a pathetic whiny person.
I've had two xrays, one which showed degeneration of the lower spine but they said that was nothing to worry about.
I've had no MRI.
I'm terrified about seeing this new physio in case they say the same to me and I get no diagnosis.
here ae my symptoms, please help me to get across to this physio that I can't carry on like this. I am in so much pain.
pins and needles in hands and feet
unable to sit without tramadol due to horrible pain on my coccyx
Constant pain in my lower back even when lying down
its the pins and needles which scare me the most. I was also recently diagnosed with temporomandibular joint disorder which I'm convinced is due to me tensing up becuae of the pain I'm in with my back.
Please please help me to get across to this physio that I'm not making this up, it's affecting me so much I can't carry on like this. Thank you so much in advance to you all and I hope you've all had a lovely and relatively pain free Christmas

woke up today with just mild pain, even made it to the toilet before taking painkillers but then began to get more painful so back on them.

Managed to peel veg for dinner today and now sitting down with dull aching, so now time for paracetomol - hey Im gettign the know my body now and what it needs and whne. Even though I feel so very much better, I think Im trying to run before I can walk literally!!!! Im just so used to doing everything at home because I like to do Im so scared of it going again.

Going to check in by phone with the Dr tomorrow morning - DS and DH are off to London (pre-planned Christmas treat) I know I wouldnt be able to walk around :( :( so will rest at home and enjoy the quiet I think.

Im taking the meds (diclafenac) with food and all ok, the last 2 nights Ive felt very sick and after reading up it does say this can be caused if spicy or rich foods are eaten - I had a curry one night and spicy meatball the night before - so sticking to plain food from now on.

Ok let's see what tomorrow brings.

Thank you again everyone, I cant tell you how calm I felt/feel after reading your replies...Ive never experienced anything like this before and felt very, very scared

Thanks for your encouragement. Tbh I've been very very lucky. Looking at my diary it was 5 weeks and 4 days from initial GP apptment where I had leg pain and difficulty walking to L4/L5 microdiscectomy surgery. For new readers, I am not in the UK.

Hi all, just catching up. Tickle, you need an MRI. If the x-ray has shown degeneration in the joints, the chances are there's more going on with discs & so on that is only going to show on an MRI.

Is your appointment with a physio who specialises in back pain, or a proper consultant? Because you need to see the latter. After a year of pain, following an injury, you need a referral & need to insist that your GP refers you for an MRI, if that's possible in your area (in some it seems to be only consultants who do that?) or to a neurosurgeon.

The thing about spinal degeneration is complicated. Yes, everyone gets it, & yes, a lot of people don't have pain or symptoms ever. But there are certain features of degenerative disc disease, as shown on MRI, that are much more likely to be associated with pain. Loss of disc space is a key one, as is inflammatory change to vertebral endplates. mulledpav has explained this really well somewhere - about how you can start getting nerves growing back into the disc space, & how this can cause severe pain. Then of course there's the possibility of disc prolapse compressing nerves, which could be cause of the pins & needles.

There may not be a whole load of options with degenerative disc disease per se - I've been told to accept I have a chronic condition, too - but there's obviously a lot that can be done in terms of pain relief. You shouldn't be in constant pain, even when lying down. Can't remember what pain relief you're on, I'm afraid.

hula, so glad things are improving a bit for you. It's a shame some GPs are so reluctant to prescribe diazepam - I do think a lot of episodes of acute back pain would heal much more quickly with a muscle relaxant, & it's the massive muscle spasms that are so scary & painful. Sounds like things are on the road to recovery, though, even if it's slower than you'd like. Are you taking omeprazole to protect your stomach? NSAIDs can cause indigestion & even ulcers, as I'm sure you know, & that can happen even with short-term use; so it's worth asking for a stomach protector.

Waves to everyone else who has been surviving family visits & managing to have some festive fun too! We've had a lovely, quiet Christmas so far - have done shitloads of cooking but absolutely no washing up. My back has been painful & stiff but drugs & champagne have helped. I'm flushy & looking crap now - my skin doesn't like alcohol (rosacea) but I don't care. Managed a good walk on Boxing Day & had very little leg pain, so it's good to see the improvement in prolapse related symptoms at least, even if the back's no better.

PIL coming tomorrow but staying in a B&B so I know I don't have much to complain about. May well be complaining anyway! MIL isn't as bad as yours, Tins, but it's fair to say she hasn't blown me away with her support since this started, & she is pretty accomplished at the snide comment / PA dig. Maybe I'll make myself one of those MIL bingo cards that people go on about.

Oh, meant to say, I love your eyelashes, matilda. Are they tinted, or have you had extensions or something? I rarely even wear mascara any more as eyes are so sensitive, so am very jealous!

Ha, I'm delighted to ave created so much lash envy . They are extensions, glued on and gradually fall out over a few weeks. I am trying hard not to fiddle with them. It is lovely to wake up looking very slightly glam but the are strictly for high days ad holidays. I cannot afford be doing with the maintenance of keep going to have them done.

hula, so glad you are improving. Keep the heat and drugs going and only increase your activity slowly. I actually had a similar episode to this about two months before my disc finally prolapsed for good. It took about a month for it to settle properly that time. When you are better it might be an idea to see a physio and get some good back care exercises going to protect you in the future. I'm glad we have helped a little, though.

Loon, hi. I was thinking about you and hoping all ok. Less leg pain sounds encouraging. Hope your visitors aren't too demanding. We are doing a dinner for the family tonight, 10 of us, I think. I've got a side of salmon with olive tapanade, leftover meat and ham, sausages, new potatoes, spinach and avocado salad and pasta salad with pesto and pine nut and sundries tomatoes. I hope it's enough but also gets eaten. I'm sick of leftovers.

Tickle, loon is very correct and you should insist on a scan. The pins and needles in your arms is likely from a trapped nerve in your neck, so separate from the low back pain. Keeping someone on tramadol after a fall with no diagnosis is disgraceful.

Am now lying on bed as usual, waiting for codeine to kick in. I can feel ominous twitching which might not be a good thing a all. I hate my back. It's such a bloody pain.

Hope everyone has had a goid christmas, and aren't in too much pain, I havejust managed to rread the threads I have missed as have been working, did the 23rd, xmas eve and boxing day.
dh has been backwards and firwards ti his parents following his mums alzheimers diagnosis.
I have my mum and dad coming tomorrow fir lunch, then me and dd are staying at theirs on 2nd and 3rd jan as we are trying on bridesmaid dresses for sisters wedding in july, these hoks have just flown by.
my work doesn't get any easier, more are leaving.
I would lije a new job in the the new year, still do hca but woyld like itin the the local general hospital, especially in the maternity unit, there are no jobs going at the mo though.
can anyoneelse suggest any other type of care job I could do which wouldbea bit lighter on my back.