Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

Over the time I've had various occasions of bad spasm where I become lobsided and twisted. My hip is pulled up on the right and my whole body is tilted, I only realised if looking in the mirror. My right leg is twisted with the knee pointing inwards. I'm a little bad at the moment and it's difficult to straighten after sitting, but I straighten after a short while. Someone recommended Sarah Key's Back sufferers bible, that described the changes in posture and why it was happening. It's been so long now that I'm not necessarily typical of an acute stage herniation. There are stretched in the above book to help relieve the spasm and pain. Heat and stretches help losen up plus diazepam and keeping on top of the pain with effective medication.

How do you feel about surgery at this point? You have time to think about it, plenty according to my surgeon, but I know I'd have taken as soon as offered it rather than suffer like this. I went the physio route for a long time and cried at her when she discharged me and then at the GP when it was definitely not working long term with private physio, I had some short term relief over the time. I wish I'd paid out for a private MRI all that time ago, it wasn't worth waiting for me and with a four year old and 2.5yr old it had been tough. I'll update on the surgery but I'm told it's more complicated after so long, more likely the disc isn't soft and easy to remove. Another stat seems to be that disc of 5mm and under are less successful than those 8mm plus.

I confirmed I'd be going with the Wednesday appointment and cancelling the other surgeon app for a second opinion - that's a private hospital one but NHS funded.

Need a quick rant ....... cannot lie on my left side due to the pain in my left hip and thigh. Fed up, tired and in pain. Grrrr!!

Holy smokes I am cross. Hospital physio tomorrow so had to ring and confirm. I thought whilst I was on the line I would check the progress of my MRI referral...as i was surprised not to have heard anyhing. think you can guess the rest.

So now it's back to the gp on Friday to start again. The gp is a 45 minute drive away, and what out of all my fucking activities hurts more than anything else. Fucking driving.

Sorry spring, that was rude. I am sorry you are in pain and fed up. It seems like a few of us are having a rough spell. Can someone bob along with some good news?!

Milly, how bloody annoying. If it's been discussed and agreed with your doctor can you not just phone the surgery to ask for it to be resent or sent at all? This stuff consumers out lives and drives us mad. I do sympathise.

Cold, sorry about your pain this morning. Have to say I have always got steadily worse as the day goes on so know that waking in bad pain is bad news indeed. I'm pretty sure the hip pain you mention is likely to be nerve related. Have you discussed gabapentin or pregablin with your GP? Do you have sensitivity in your shin? That's a classic L5 nerve pain, too.

I'm feeling not too bad this morning which is surprising because I had a load of admin to do yesterday evening and ended up sitting for far longer than is sensible. Not complaining, though . Have lovely massage and physio/ Pilates this morning followed by coffee with SIL then swim so hopefully quite a nice day. DH is away for a couple of days so it's just me and the dog so it's better if I keep occupied or it can feel a bit lonely.

Consumes our lives. Bloody auto correct.

Spring, I hear you. Only thing that helps a little is a wheat bag. Oh and I found my tens machine also helped when pain got really bad and I wanted to avoid taking the liquid morphine.

Mint, that at rubbish, agree just call them and ask for a repeat/phone appointment.

Matilda enjoy your swim, think that might have helped me a little over the weekend.

Still not sleeping well from 1am-9am which in turn is waking up the baby and h has stated feeding every 2-3h now after going 6h plus

Cold - I think you are safe to try amitriptiline or better still nortriptiline which is the same but more recently developed. It's for nerve pain but helps me sleep and often I can sleep through with codeine and butrans too. It makes me want to sleep forever but nortriptiline isn't quite so bad and I function ok, it would probably be more difficult if I was working.

Milly - as above I would ring and often do and it's only a short drive.

So today I am trying to get ready for tomorrow. Really hope it doesn't get cancelled last minute. I just want it done and to wake up to the news it's gone well and I can start recovering and getting all these twisted and spamming muscles back to normal. I really want to be able to share a good news surgery experience, they aren't that easy to find online.

Queen, I have to feed in the night. Do you think the drugs would make me too drowsy for this?

Good luck for tomorrow.

On the upside, my mum knows 4 people aged 30-60 who had great results from the op.

Cold, I take amytriptiline at a low dose and certainly do wake up if there is a disturbance or I need the loo. It helps me to get back off to sleep more easily, too. Not sue about how much would be transferred into breast milk. I pharmacist would be the best person to ask.

If it safe for you it's definitely worth a try.x

Matilda interesting you nentionned the shin pain. Exactly what I have and thought I must be going mad as everyone always talks about pain at the back of the leg ( which I also have) but I haven't heard about the shin pain. Only 8 days after injections and my shin never hurt before this. Oh well, at least the back and leg pain are still as bad as they ever were! Not sure if anything has actually improved! Looking forward to a 3 hour drive (as passenger) at the weekend. Must remember to take all the pills!

Yes, my pain goes pretty much from my hip/buttock into my shin. Sometimes I literally cannot have anything near my shin, it's so sensitive.

Good luck with your journey. I have a similar one next week but now know to dose up first.

Bumping for oscarbeale

Quiet times, here. I'm the same as ever but due to having parents staying perhaps a bit sorer on account of trying to do a bit with them. It's hard wanting to do things yet knowing it will actually make things worse for me. Never ending dilemma, really.

Did go to London to see the new Imperial War Museums galleries which was fantastic though after a couple of hours ( including sofa rest) I was about ready to lie down on the floor. Although it was so busy I'm fairly sure I'd have been trampled to death .

Hope everyone else is ok and quiet due to having fun times.

Hello hello
Thank you for bringing me here! So yesterday arvo I put my back out for the first time in something like 14 years, and the last time I was a sprightly 20 year old doing physical theatre. This time I'm an overweight 34yo and buggered my back simply putting a child back down on the ground after a cuddle. Awesome.

Absolutely debilitated. No sleep. Had to have GP home visit this morning, and he's prescribed Diazepam and Naroxen. The Naproxen I'm less bothered by, but am really quite scared by the potential side effects of the diazepam.

I'm taking the week off work, and husbot is definitely staying home with me tomorrow but beyond that I don't know what we're going to do, and know I have to take something. Ibuprofen and paracetamol are about as much use as smarties at the moment. I'm allergic to codeine. I'm also waffling.

Anyway, personal experiences of diazepam really welcome, I really hate feeling spaced out and wafty and out of control and fear that's what it will be like for me. I wish I had a desk job at the moment. I can sit perfectly still with no pain. However, I'm a nanny so hefting toddlers around is my bread and butter. I feel sick just thinking about it.

Diazepam does goof me out a bit but it's an awesome painkiller because it relaxes all those angry spasming muscles. Do you have leg pain as well?

I hardly ever take diazepam as I can't face getting addicted to it and like you, don't really like feeling spacey but in your situation I would indeed take it three times a day for three days. You will not get addicted in that time and I'm assuming you have quite a low dose, say 2mgs? If you need further analgesia and can't take codeine then tramadol would be another suggestion. That also goofs me out but you do get used to that feeling quite soon and still get the benefit of the analgesia.

In the early days I also used a lumber support best, just a cheap Velcro stretchy thing which was comforting. If you have this week off do take advantage of the chance to rest up as much as you can. Gentle pottering, no more. And a hot bath can be very relaxing, too. Keep up the gentle stretches because they will help. Do ask your GP for more input if needed.

Hope you start to feel better very soon.

Thanks for a lovely reply. I've decided to take a diazepam as soon as boy is asleep. I don't want to upset him any more by being a zombie mombie. He's pretty pissed off with me for not being able to cuddle and play. If I zone out after 7pm that's cool, I can just veg in front of the tv. I'm using a woven wrap (sling) as a lumbar support at the moment. It's awesome.

Yes, leg pain as well, and my buttocks are aflame!

I've taken Tramadol before for severe migraine. It did diddly for that, but made me sleep wonderfully :)

Hello OB, I find diazepam helpful for spasm but it does nothing for my head! Ice and heat are meant to be good in this initial stage along with the naproxen. I've had DH home for these occasions before, my kids are 4 and 2.5 yrs old and it's been bad since the second birth, well pregnancy too but back pain is dismissed as normal. Are all opiates out? Paracetamol is good so don't forget that. Gentle stretching is good, perhaps after a heat pack or hot shower - do what feels good but stop if it hurts in a bad way and do gentle stretching and pulling in the core often, it's really effective. Rest is good too, you need to relax the muscles. There are meditation type breathing exercises for pain, I used a mindfulness audio for a plane journey. Support knickers can help for short periods too, unless you have a proper back brace Velcro thing. Fingers crossed it will pass but if the leg pain persists get to the GP and ask for physio, I had physio at 16 when I slipped a disc and it worked. At 29 I tried lots of physio and it didn't work, finally got an MRI to diagnose and I'm a few days post op.

Oh dear, it does sound like a disc, but they can and do resolve in most cases but looking after it is key. Sorry but no picking up children or anything much heavier than a cup of tea is banned.

It's good that you have involved your GP at an early stage as it might help you get physio referrals etc if needed.

Hope the diazepam helps a bit. With all the rest of your meds it should help take the edge off. Oh and if you are taking naproxen for any length of time ask for enteric coated and a stomach protector. You can do without an ulcer right now.

I was wondering if it would be helpful to do a little account/diary thing of my op and recovery. I know some members have been through this but others are considering surgery or perhaps someone lurking could find this helpful.

Day of surgery - Up at 5am and caught two buses to the hospital. We waited until a nurse came and took names and gave us a letter and took us to little side rooms. DH was left behind. I was visited by a nurse to take details, a dr to take blood, another nurse to check I wasn't pregnant and then the anaesthetist and surgeon visited to discuss the procedure and get me to sign the consent form. I dressed in two gowns and compression socks. I waited around on a chair outside the room due to overcrowding, I think I was first on the list but was then bumped to second and allocated a room with a bed. DH was allowed in and I managed to snooze and not be too terrified - I almost cried at the anaesthetist. Finally at 11ish we were told to get ready, I walked to the lifts with DH and then said goodbye at 11:30am.

The floor was entirely theatres with lots of surgeons around, the nurse checked us in at the front desk and we went into the room where I was prepared for theatre, it was freezing cold. I was attached to the monitors with blood pressure cuff and then the dreaded cannula. Everyone was nice and jokey but seriously I did not want to be there with my fear of being put under. I could feel it going into my arm and was squeezing my eyes shut waiting for it to happen. It wasn't too bad but I did get the woo woo woo type feeling. But I am surprised it was so clean, I can remember it very well and wasn't too bad after either. The op took about four or five hours, poor DH waited about seven hours to hear I was ok, he was told it was about two hours.

I came round desperately needing a wee, I think I thought I was at home and tried to put the lamp on! At that moment I was stopped from getting up and wheeled to recovery. I was visited by the anaesthetist and the consultant (while trying to wee and regretting they didn't use a catheter). I was topped up with morphine a few times but I had a pain in my left leg and side which wasn't budging. I thought it was muscular so a muscle relaxant was requested but didn't arrive. I asked the nurse if my DH knew I was out and she rang him for me. This gave the ward a push to admit me and I was wheeled down to my bed. I still had a lot of pain in the left but the Drs were busy, being a neurosurgery ward I was the least ill person there by far :(

I slept between checks and a Dr visited but didn't do anything, sleep was helping at least. Lots of visits in the morning by both surgeons, a physio and more drugs and checks. The staff were all great, nurses, physio, the catering staff, the food was pretty good too. I did have one issue with a nurse who told me I'd had my muscle relaxant and it was gabapentin. I was pretty upset and worried about that and that is why I didn't get it until the nurse on the day shift finally let me have it.

Due to the pain in the left persisting and believing it was nerve pain, I had an MRI, I took oramorph before that as it was painful. I chose to walk back alone from the scan with my wound drain half full of blood, which must've been a sight in the public lift. The pain turned out to be caused by the suction of the drain pulling on the left nerve root which showed on the scan. It's still painful but no where near that level. It was changed to a gravity drain and only removed just before we left.

DH came at 3pm as visitors aren't allowed until 2pm anyway. We were moved to another ward, a private room. While eating dinner the consultant and other surgeon arrived and asked about going home, I said it would be more convenient (kids at home and babysitter who had done far more than I realised she would need to). The drain and canula came out and the wound was dressed. We got a cab home and stood around a bit too long chatting.

I called the GP the next day and got some diazepam and morphine. I'm still on my butrans patch, gabapentin, nortriptiline and codeine as needed, plus regular paracetamol and ibuprofen. I'm sleeping a lot but trying to do my exercises and move around gently. It's not easy with the kids wanting to jump on me. I've had success with prune juice, I was dreading going but it was fine. Most of the pain is in a band across the back of my pelvis and a little down the left leg. Sitting is painful but I can walk ok. Turning in bed is a challenge and I can feel the wound stretching. I can't feel any right leg pain so that is a success even if it isn't the worst pain I had. But I know the back pain can decrease with physio now the injury is fixed. The consultant apparently said that this op is the sort that can make a big difference to pain levels. I bloody hope so but it's a waiting game and may take a few months to realise. I'll put my all in to making it happen and praying too. It is starting to feel frustrating being in bed and not doing stuff but I know it has to be like this and I have to remind DH at times too, it's not worth going through another op!

Hope you don't mind me posting . I follow the thread and have nothing like the hell you are so living with . Respect

I have lumbar 4-5 crushed disc with marked degenarative changes in the facet joints. Spondylosis.
On naproxen which is a small help . Due to other health issues I haven't been able to exercise much ie acute exhaustion and funny stuff going on with muscle spasms and neuropathy

My question is ...do any of you get an acute pain radiating around your groin area and inner thigh ? This is new pain . Could it be from my lower back ?

So worried and each day seems to bring up another pain or symptom.
Seeing my doctor next week .
Thank you . Thinking of you all on this thread and get a lot of comfort from it

Hi Basset, this is a strictly non competitive pain thread.

Welcome and actually that sounds jolly painful. Is there a reason you are only taking naproxen? It sounds as if you might benefit from a more mixed approach. At the very least you might add in regular paracetamol. Anyway, if you need advice on meds do ask.

The new pain you have could certainly be nerve pain related to your lower back. Mine runs through my buttock, my shin and into my foot. On a bad day I can feel the complete route of the nerve.

I'm sorry about your other illness, could you manage a gentle swim or exercise in water? Also I find massage really helpful if well done. Do you have dc to care for, too? I've always been so very glad this happened to me after my boys grew up.

Take care and do keep posting. Lots of us have found these threads a real lifeline as in RL it's hard to find people who really understand.x

to you, Queen. Haven't been on for a while - holidays etc. - & didn't realize you had had the operation!

Thanks for writing such a detailed account. It sounds scary, TBH, & I'm open-mouthed at how long it took. I also thought it only took a couple of hours - did you have microdiscectomy?

Really hoping that you start to feel much better as soon as possible & that this is the start of a pain-free future for you. Take it easy - as you say, you can't rush this.

Hope everyone else is doing okay - haven't caught up with the thread yet. I'm up & down as usual - managed to walk miles some days on holiday (split up into small chunks, not at all at once) but have had really bad leg pain at other times. Not convinced that the pregabalin was doing all that much, so did a tapered withdrawal. Will go back on if leg pain gets worse!

Still waiting for my follow-up with consultant & still too frightened to make a decision re. surgery.

Thank you Matilda for such a warm welcome .
I am fortunate to have adult children and feel so much for those struggling with little ones to care for with back hell. I am a retired nurse .left before the job broke me . And my back .

I will add paracetamol to my mix ..........thank you . Seeing my doc next week but have so many other issues going on i must prioritise this new pain and get some advice for this . The others can wait for sure .
I have been looking at your advice re Alexander technique re back pain position . Like it .

Will post back after seeing my GP and walk with you all . thank you x

Loon - It was a microdiscectomy but a tough one. I had the lower half of the laminae removed to get access. It should only take an hour but it was stuck to the nerve, it was there a long time so this was expected. Amazing I can still walk and go to the loo after all the poking around in there. I hope it will be a success and encourage others in similar situations, although I had a huge herniation so I know that is a better indicator of surgery being useful and less of a decision to make. I feel a lot better today but have felt like I've been hit by a bus for a few days.

Basset, sorry you have to join us. You are in good company and probably have a trickier diagnosis than me to manage. I have, or maybe had as it hasn't appeared so far post op, pain in the groin and into the top of the inner thigh. It feels like nerve pain. If you can get some core exercises, perhaps via a physio, it may help, I know my pelvis has weakened due to pain and these exercises help tighten them, they are very gentle so I can do them now.

This is the first day I haven't slept, is it notmally to be so sleepy post op? I'm still very sore and unable to tell what pain will remain. My thighs, bum and back muscles are still tight and achey, although lying down so much isn't helping. Sitting it sore but getting better. I might try a three day diazepam course tomorrow.

bassett, ah! a retired nurse. Says it all. I was a midwife and did nursing first back in the days before there was an aid for every kind of patient lifting. If you are in pain though there are lots of different approaches to helping it. As well as drugs, physio and moaning there's online shopping.

queen you sound as if you are doing really well. Yes to the tiredness, it's the drugs and also the trauma. It's also common to feel a bit low and weepy. Are you starting to walk a little? About now I was taking a daily walk with someone else there just up the road a bit and going a bit further each day. Only you can tell if you need diazepam but remember the muscles have been cut and pulled about so are bound to feel tight and sore. Unfortunately I think the surgeons dramatically underplay how you might feel and how long it takes to recover and your estimate of a few months in all might be more accurate. Right now though it's baby steps and you sound as if you are doing well. No advice about bouncy babies, though, that sounds hard.