Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

amazing new word milly I am going to try and find a way to use that in every day conversation!!

spring yes, definitely take omeprazole. If you have stomach cramps it might ease them. And, as matilda said, if you are taking naproxen (or any other NSAID) you need to take the omeprazole anyway.

How long does grumpiness last when someone is giving up smoking? DH is being such a sod, snappy, quick tempered, everything is a problem, his tolerance is shot, and even when he is feeling fine, he is not 'happy' Really, please don't tell me this is going to last forever. I am trying really hard to be patient and let lots of things go as it's only been 3 weeks, and he has done fantastically, but really, there is a limit to how much rudeness I can take before I say enough FFS. It's really not an excuse to be a misery. He is not happy, fun, joyful, he just has his nose stuck on a computer game on the iPad pretty much 24/7 and if he is spoken to by any of us, children included, he snaps.

and yes, I know I can be a proper grump when I am in pain, but I do my very best to not be, and I apologise when I have been --eventually- recognising that it's my pain levels being a problem. I try to be happy as much as I can, and so yes I snap sometimes, yes I am moody sometimes, but I am also fun, happy, and have the other emotions too. He is just moody the whole time and refuses to apologise when he has done something wrong, or been harsh with the children. DS in particular is copping the brunt of it as he is going through a tough 4.5year old testosterone spike and he needs love and reassurance and guidance, and DH is not having any of that. He is straight to anger much of time when DS is being badly behaved. It's so different to how we talked about parenting our children. I can't help wish that he had waited until the children were back at school before quitting. I know that's selfish and it's his health, but, I am worried he is going to damage his relationship with DS if he continues being so miserable around him.

Tough one. Is he using patches or electronic cigs? Going cold turkey is hard. DH stopped his 'occasional' packet a day cigars a year ago and still misses it, I know. But, no, I have a very low tolerance for grumpy behaviours and am truly very rarely grumpy myself but today I've got the Rage. He wanted to play golf today instead of Sunday due to weather so I ended up taking his bloody annoying old dad up to visit mil in her nursing home. Took nearly two hours and was then shopping with friend this pm. I can't go alone so really look forward to this outing. In fact spent half the time getting stuff for mil.

Was DH extremely grateful on his return. Was he bollocks. No flowers, no gratitude. Also can't get stupid expensive tv to attach to broadband so can't watch a decent film and have wasted another Saturday evening flicking around. I'm getting old and my life is passing me by.

Sorry, that's a proper mememe. Hope the rest of you are even marginally more cheerful.

he is using e-cig things so not full cold turkey. i will cut him some slack but he better not ruin the holiday with it. As it is he has been a bit mean about my back problem, moaning about being the one doing all the cooking, not being as sweet and loving as he has been (not always but often), getting my meds or asking me if I need a hot water bottle, generally taking care of me when I am feeling particular down. No. None of that. Like your DH, not grateful for what I actually do, just complaining that he cooks (this came about because he decided not to cook dinner after he and DD had impromptu sushi after a lovely man at a sushi place gave her some free stuff, but he did not tell me he was not cooking, so I was waiting for the chicken enchiladas that he said we were having, and when I tentatively asked, he told me I should have cooked myself something, he is not the fucking meal provider). I am just having to be so nice and treading on egg shells all the time, just to stop him from blowing up. And, getting nothing nice in return.

And, having been in huge amounts of pain, could really have done with a little TLC. or, even asking how I am feeling, after I have told him I have numb patches. He has acted like I have told him I just broke a nail. He is not bothered, and when I said that we need think about what hospital we would go to if it all goes pete tong given the red flag signs, he sighed and really horribly said 'really? it's not that bad, and it will ruin the holiday'.

and, tbf, if you have run around being daughter, you have every reason to be fucking annoyed if you ain't even had a thanks. It's just rude.

Thing is, we've become boring. They are fed up with it,too.

Thank you, good to know I am not the only one.

I can relate to what you said Matilda about life passing by, I often think that, though some of that is about nit being rooted in the place I live.

Funny, I keep refusing to let life pass me by, but then I am never sure how to do that! I want to do something momentus, something big and grand, life changing, something to look back on and think, that was worth being here for, then I think that's what my children already make me do, so maybe that's what it is that I am meant to do, but I want to do more than that.,and, I never really knew for sure that I wanted to do somthing signfiicant ant until I had children, and then my back went before I ever got around to knowing what it was. I know it was not surfing or bodyboarding, so while I am actually quite devestated I can't do those things right now, maybe ever, I will learn to live with that if I can do something else that makes a difference. Going on holiday to a yurt and festivals is fun, but it's not going to put on a mark on this world, and it's going to really, really fucking hurt to do it. So how can I do something bigger than that.

I agree, DH does think I have become boring, I am the bill payer, the one that sorts out the school uniform, organises things, keeps it ticking.

Just told ds there will be no iPad, no computer, no tv, on holiday. He was, at first, disbelieving, and then, shocked, and now cross! Hehe!

I'm calling SS, that's abuse, that is!!!

Trying to take a more positive approach this morning despite the rain and being trapped in the road due to the London road race.

Grr just wrote my whole story out on wrong thread which had reached 1000 so didn't post and now I have to write it again

Hi new to this thread and looking for advice and similar experiences and results.

Has pain walking and sitting before birth, was told it was pelvic girdle - nope it was bulging disc.

1 week after birth pain changed to worst I have ever felt in my life and I could hardly walk due to sciatic pain.

Turns out I had a bulging disc. After a lot of pushing I got a referral (very lucky I got an NHS spot at a private hospital) and 8 weeks after my son was born I had a cortisone injection in my L5

It was meant to last 6 weeks (which was on Friday) and I was to be pain free after 2 weeks - nope.

I am still very bent over and twisted after needing crutches for 10 weeks. I still have some pain during the day and more at night, now the injection has worn off sleeping is more difficult even with pain drugs and wheat bags.

I now have to decide if to have another injection or disc shaved/out.

If I have it shaved/out I have to stay in for 2 days. Not sure if I can take DS (3 months) with me as I'm EBF. At least it is a private hospital so private room and I can have it done within days of deciding what I want.

Has anyone else had experience with this?

Also I have been on Tramadol, 8 per day for 11 weeks and am concerned about addiction.

coldcottage welcome. Sorry you are in so much Pain with a teeny one. Normally I would err on the side of caution re surgery, but it's difficult to call it either way, as you have tiny baby to look after if you don't have the surgery. You need to think about:
What you have tried that is non surgical and what else is there left to try, other than time (time is actually a great healer both disc problems, but you need to rest and gently exercise as much as possible, not always easy with a baby)
What disc has prolapsed, how badly is it affecting your ability and how will you cope if you don't have surgery
What has the surgeon said about risks, success rates, recovery time etc?

Thoughts on a couple of things:
Tramadol is addictive in that you may suffer from withdrawal for a short time when you stop. You won't find you need more and more of it and crave it, it's actually a very good painkiller. I would say don't worry about the addiction side of things, as given the level of pain you are in, you are going to need an opiate of some kind to help with the pain. What else are you taking? Paracetamol? If not, add this is, it's essential as it works with other meds brilliantly. How about ibruprofen or naproxen etc? It's best to use these all together, but check with your doctor about suitability while breast feeding. Should be ok if tramadol alone is ok.

Re injection. How long did it work for, if at all? What one did you have done? Direct facet joint/si joint or epidural injection? Epidural is 50/50 success. I personally would say if you got nothing from it this time, it won't work second time. You could ask for another type of injection.

To help with pain relief now - wedge pillow under your knees when laying Down. matilda will link to a good Alexander technique for laying which helps. Also, heat pad such as water bottle or wheat bag helps a lot. Bath or showers help if you can get in and out of the bath, gentle massage, but only after a bath, an my physio said muscles need to be soft.

cold, it's a very tricky situation to be in. Can you describe your pain a little? Worse in back or leg? It's good news you had some relief from the injection as they aren't always successful and getting right type of injection and the right spot can prove tricky.

Re your meds, yes, that is a lot of tramadol, I'm surprised you can function, but I'm quite sensitive to it. Are you taking anything else, though? I ask because codeine and tramadol a fantastic for mechanical pain but much less so for nerve pain. We have written a lot on drug combining before but here's what I take:

Naproxen 500 twice daily, anti inflammatory
Omeprazole 20 once daily, protects my stomach
Gabapentin 600 x3 daily, nerve painkiller
Amytriptiline 20 at night
Cocodamol 60 as and when
Tramadol as and when
Diazepam as and when
Lactulose nightly

Now of course I don't take all of the as and when's together. I find sometimes one will works better than another. Sometimes I'm in despair and diazepam acts like a charm.

With a disc prolapse the pain is multi faceted, inflammation, muscular spasm, nerve entrapment, tension, postural abnormality and more muscular spasm...so it makes sense to use a mult faceted approach to dealing with it.

You mention heat which is fantastic. Rest. Lots of rest. Not easy with a new baby but use every resource you have and get help.

Are you getting physio? A lumber support might be helpful. Mine was at this stage. Very gentle exercise and massage are good.

Now surgery. You mention 'shaving it ', which may be a simple way of describing the surgery but it is still quite significant surgery. I'm a bad example because I had a terrible result and will not recover. Equally I know several people who have done well. Just take your time deciding and do your research. As Pavlov said, nearly all disc do recover In time. Lots of sympathy though it must be very hard.xx

Thank you Pav, I will take a look at the link. I am waiting on a physio referral to come through.

I am on paracetamol and ibuprofen as well, split so I take something nearly every 2 hours. Naproxen didn't work for me - I got a rash so went back to ibuprofen.

Interesting to hear that a second injection will probably have a similar result. Although I have not had any pain free time I have gone from needing someone with me all the time - as unable to lift it carry DS to being able to lift and carry him short distances so I can be at home alone with him. It might not always be conventional but we make it work.

The first day I was able to look after him myself was the best day. I carried him downstairs on my bum in a baby carrier with crutches as extra support. Once I reached the bottom I cried with happiness. I have been so lucky as had amazing support from friends and family but its hard having to be social all the time and not having any lazy days snuggled up alone with him as a newborn .

What are the other injection options? I had a cortisone epidural in my L5.

Matilda, thank you.

I have to be careful what I take as I am EBF. Though I can take diazepam 5,2,2 for a 3 day period occasionally which helped eventually to get me out of the acute stage.

I have pain deep in my hip as base of my bottom as well as in my thigh and calf (and ankle, though that is due to a fall when I couldn't reach my second crutch ). It is down my left side and really hurts when I turn over at night to feed as I feed laying down at night.

Have you found any exercises helpful?

At the moment I in turn pull my knee to my chest and across my chest whilst on my back. Roll my legs from one side to the other and lay on my front and push my head and shoulders to arch my back and free the disc to move back in.

Be very careful about pushing yourself up from your front into a cobra position. This is very disc pinching unless you have your pelvis absolutely rigidly tildedforward to protest the discs of in doubt don't do this.

The hip and leg pain are almost certainly nerve pain and one of the nerve meds or both would help. Sorry but not sure re the bf there.

I've had a lot of injections and one very candid consultant said it was hot and miss. Not necessarily in whether they get the right spot but as to whether it hits the pain or not. I had an L4/5 prolapse and had various injections both pre and post op. They aren't a cure, have varying results and can last varying lengths of time but can works well enough for some to heal and avoid surgery.

It sounds as if you have seen a neurosurgeon, did he describe the prolapse and/or give you figures for success?

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time.

Btw most Pilates exercises are good for the back but if you could do some one to one with a good instructor that would be great.

Here's the link to Alexander Technique constructive rest

www.imogenragone.com/self-help/constructive-rest/

Also walking in water, hydro exercises and very gentle swimming but not breast stroke.

That is interesting, I did some light swimming yesterday and was straighter and less wonky this morning.

Will take a look at link tomorrow. I will try anything.

My lovelies. I am going on holiday early tomorrow so unlikely I will post before I go. I will be quiet for a week!!!

I am wishing you all low pain all week, take it easy, thank you all for being so lovely and supportive to me as my pain ebbs and flows. you are all awesome and have helped me through some tough times.

I will tell you all about it, hopefully not earlier than the week, let's hope I can last to and through the Beautiful Days Festival!

xxx

Happy hols, Pavlov. Hope the pain and weather are kind to you.

Steady, go steady.

Happy holidays Pavlov, hope the yurt is fun xx

Cold, I have a similar story except it took two years and two months to get an MRI. At the MRI I was told that pregnancy and birth do make an existing herniation bigger. I've just had an appointment with a consultant and it was a bit of a fight but I am, hopefully, about to have surgery. The surgeon advised not even considering surgery until a year has passed! This contradicts the studies about optimum time for surgery (before six months being preferable). When I explained how long it had been like this, two and a half years, the surgeon was much happier to discuss surgery and not push the benefit of an epidural - the success rate is apparently 70% but I've heard too many stories of no relief or worse pain. This is at an NHS hospital, I don't know if this opinion would stand in the private ward for the same surgeon!

The main compression is L5 too, on the right with pain at the top of the pelvis and into the hip. This is where there are nerves so could be greatly relieved by decompression. At this early stage you could recover without an op but you are also more likely to recover without creating longer term issues with muscle spasm and loss of tone if this is sorted out quickly. Even at two and a half years the surgeon suggested this was just a short cut to permanent pain relief. I'd wait another month or two and then go for surgery - that could be the wait time anyway.

Thank you Queen, nice to hear from someone who has been through the same thing.

I had to push and push, cry on the phone and call everyday directly to the department to get a cancellation appointment.

I was very very lucky and was given a NHS appointment within a private hospital, I did have to pay for a private MRI in order to move forward to get treatment quickly. I was very lucky that my patents and in-laws paid for this.

I did some light swimming over the weekend which seemed to help a little, I was slightly less twisted.

Queen, did you find that you have looked twisted, bent out to one side? My pain is on the left side and my hip is jutting out to the left in addition to being bent over. Are you also bent over? Has anything helped to straighten you up if you've been bent over?