Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

It's not only ok, but as queen says, essential to rest. Not that you should stay in bed 24/7, but laying flat for as long as you can each day will help, as does sleeping, as it is during sleep that the discs do their regeneration. It's a fine balance between stopping completely and carrying on as normal. Lots of advice talk about carrying on as normal but actual, this acute stage is a key stage in longer term recovery, and so often we try to ride through this period, so rest now, and do the 'getting on with it' once you are through this stage.

If you can get hold of a copy of Sarah Key's The Back Sufferers Bible, she gives some fab advice about how to manage the different stages of back pain (acute, sub acute, chronic). It's a bloody good book for knowing how to help yourself back on track, and also what happens inside the spine. I loved reading it from cover to cover. But, I do prefer fact to fiction. Sad person that I am.

TENS machine works for some people, I am about to try it when a colleague gets her ass in gear to bring one in, but I have heard lots say that it's only effective for a short period of time. It certainly won't do any harm, so if you have access to one give it a try.

Heat helps the blood move through the muscles that spasm when there is stuff going on, it's usually the muscle spasms that cause the pain, and the heat helps to remove the toxins. Ice is good following this, because once the heat draws the new blood through, the cold then closes the capillaries and stops new toxins going in. But, it's a faff, and you don't want to do ice then heat. It needs to be heat then ice if you do it, or if only one, then heat. But, as I said, I can't bear it in this humid weather. We need a storm!!! Everywhere seems to have one, but not here. But, only tonight. We need a dry day on monday to dry the park where DD is having her birthday celebrations on tuesday, then dry tuesday for The Day.

Do you get paid time off work? If so, take advantage of this now, take as long as you need, and it maybe 2-4 weeks realistically (might not be that long). Taking it off now means you will be much more likely to not need more time off in the future, get yourself fully over this acute phase.

Thanks, Pavlov. I really appreciate your time. Yes, I would get some paid sick leave but I am a manager of a small office and, whilst I'm not indispensable, it really puts a strain on things if I am absent. I feel guilty taking time off, but I understand what you are saying about it basically being an investment in getting back to full health. It's just that I am a busy person, two DDs, lots of rushing around taxi-ing but I do a desk job / it's a bad combination.

What exactly is 'core strength'? Can I do that at home (a DVD?) or do I have to go to a class?

I'll look for the book you recommend, thanks.

Hope all goes well with the birthday on Tuesday, Pavlov. Are you going to be celebrating outside?

I need to sleep now. I've been really self-absorbed on the thread today but send positive thoughts to you all tonight. Hope you rest well, you've been a lifeline today

Light, I will post more tomorrow but be sure of one thing, your long term health is more important than your job. Truly, I cannot emphasise that enough. You basically have a sitting down job versus an injury which responds badly to sitting...

As said here, we are sadly not the ones to ask for happy recovery stories but this is still within the period of time to allow for recovery so please do rest and allow that to happen.

Core strength relates to your deep abdominal and pelvic muscles. Pretty much covered by Pilates if well done.

LS core strength is the core back muscles which can sometimes not be as strong as they should be. Sometimes, but not always, this is linked with back pain. However, when we injure our backs, for whatever reason, the core strength is the first thing to go as we change how we walk, hold ourselves, bend. We avoid doing lifting, moving, etc, and so the core muscles become weak, and in turn that makes the pain and recovery harder. It becomes a vicious circle. Matilda is right about pilates, yoga will also work, or if too intense due to pain, some lower level versions of this. It will probably be good to ask your GP for physio referral, or, as someone else said, consider private as NSH is hit and miss.

I would also think about if you can cobble your desk together so that you can stand up and work. Not sure if possible, but in my job I did this, I put files under my keyboard to raise it, lifted my monitor up high, mouse on an index box and worked like that, mainly as sitting hurts too much if there for more than a few minutes. In time, I got a desk provided that moves up and down to address it, but that will take some time and an OH referral (luckily for me there was already one in the company that no longer was used so didn't need to go through that route, but already have a better chair because of OH referral). If you can't do that, then you will really, really need to consider if you should be at work right now. If you don't, you will burn yourself out trying to do all the things you are doing, and then find you will not be able to do any of it. Take that time now. Or, can you talk to your employers about reduced hours temporarily, take some holiday? work from home a little bit? change how you work your hours so you get some rest in the week? Talk to your employers if you can, about what is going on, look at how they can help you if you are at work. You might find they are supportive, and you can give them some headsup of time off. Not all employers are that supportive though so you need to think about how they might go with that, versus you just not going in.

How old are your little ones? I have two aged 4 and almost 8, and have had a back problem since youngest was 10 months, badly since he was 2 so I completely empathise. There are some others here who will offer you more support too as they have even younger children than that.

Morning all. Hope everyone well rested. No change here since yesterday, still bloody hurts!!

I work in a healthcare environment ( the irony is not lost on me!) and I think if I keep my boss in the picture she will be sympathetic to me needing to work around what my back allows at the moment. Standing up to work is possible definitely at home, more difficult in the office.

I understand about the core. Is it safe to start learning/doing it now, even if I've not done it before? Won't hurt myself or make back worse?

My DDs are teens, so can work as slaves to do jobs!

hello everyone, just wanted to update.A week later and the facet and si joint injections have helped .

Hello denial - i am new to this thread and dont know your whole story, but am pleased to see you have had some treatment which has helped you.

thanks for the info pavlov I like all the nightshades except aubergine- but I do avoid potatoes without having any reason, baked potaoes make me go very sleepy an hour or two later,maybe the starch.

Had a gastro flare up yesterday, when this happens the bloating makes my back hurt alot more (??) -weird.
I understand cooking denatures some of the alkaloids in the nightshades right? I like quite alot of the stuff on the bottom parts of thtriangle - pulses,beans,fish,brown rice and quinoa, berries and veggies- after my blood test I'll be focussing on them for sure. sugar is my weakness . I have to have something to fulfill that side like fruit crumble thats mainly fruit = made one yesterday with apple and raspberry with gf flour and oats in the topping, had with 0% greek yog mmm
sorry to go on about food!
Feel so tired today, went back to bed at 11 for a couple hours because am diclofenac and gaba hadnt done the biz, back felt alot bettewhen i woke so i guess it was good to listen to my body. think the dreadful weather is contributing. was gonna go dstatic bike today but cannot b bothered- ill still do physio and some yoga at home , as long as I do something every day I can make changes. I am constantly correcting my posture sthat must be a good sign I'm becoming more aware of it.
bit concerned that most people with "disc bulges"/ =ddd seem to have a sudden onset and get better within a much shorter time- I started getting this type of pain inpg no.1 back in 2008, I have no idea when this started.
feel very foolish that I did a job I wasnt physically suited too out of ambition and bloody mindedness and although I tried to always lift properly ,it must have contributed. then again if i had had a sedentary job it could have contributed too! I think it got harder for me to do proper exercise when I did very long hours.
can I recommend a lady for pilates videos- i had video/dvd yrs ago but sure you can find her on utube/similar,her name is Lynn Robinson and she's=really good but tbh you can find any number of videos -some even labelled as for back pain etc. you need tfind an intro one that explains the breathing- you basically drawin your pelvic floors and tummy muscles but there is a specific technique and explainations can help it make more sense as you do it. otherwise go to a class, it's gret to borrow someone's motivation for an hour! if you are not up to pilates, I wasnt in my pg's, considerdoing aqua aerobics as ican help alot. My muhas past slipped disc and hip probs and arthritus anshe goes about 3x a week.but not recently as her stuff has worsened alot, use your judgement as you know your own bod best

Great news denial!

I find the core stuff difficult to do, I just want to pull all my tummy muscles in but it's only the lower ones that count as core and they need to be done while the upper tummy muscles are relaxed. So confusing for my brain to do this, especially as we get into bad habits. My physio suspects that some of my habits are very longstanding. Core stuff should be fine if done using instructions, video or book, I don't think you can do any harm. Pilates is also very gentle but best done initially in a class to ensure you are doing it right - I got told to adjust several times in classes. If it hurts to lie flat on your back or your have any other restrictions you may have to make adaptations, discuss with the teacher who can help with cushions or alternative exercises. A smaller class may be better initially. I've been told a few times to try exercise in water too, it helps build the muscle without the impact on the joints. Another tip was to try to keep everyday the same, don't over do it some days only to find yourself unable to get up the next day. I know many of us struggle with this!

I having a sore weekend from overdoing it. I need to sit down and work out my exercises. One is the core thing and I'm rubbish. Another is training my knees not to point inwards so much. No builders tomorrow so I'll be chasing the hospital to get my op date scheduled. Even if it's the maximum wait it is something I can work around. I have the building work, redecorating, new hall carpet, new bathroom floor, school uniform shopping and the post op child care to sort. On the upside I finally got an internet shop and everything fit great.

yeah, sorry denial, fab news

and hope it lasts a nice long time, what have they said about time?

Ey up everyone. Hope you are all ok ish, as best as you can be

Whilst I am waiting to see the spinal surgeon in 2 months time. My gp has referred me for hydrotherapy. Has anyone tried this? Did it help? I know heat helps but didn't know if this would help or hinder. As whilst the heat helps and makes the pain less. Am thinking maybe you could do more damage whilst in the water and not realise until you get out?

No idea re hydrotherapy...but my mantra is usually "try anything twice"

For once had a good gp appointment ...was able to express just how serious the impact of this injury is. She referred me for an MRI (why has this not happened before?) and for physio...which is good because so far I have had to pay for physio myself and thus not had too many sessions

It was nice to be listened to.

By contrast work wasn't so great. My boss is lovely, and very supportive, but in trying to get a desk and driving assessment we have triggered a process based on fitness to work. My immediate boss is furious because her previous experience of doing this it was because the person had performance issues, which I do not. I do not feel especially inclined to share my medical records with the company. I have nothing really to hide but still.....

msdj, I haven't been to a proper hydro pool since as a child which was lovely. But I am a keen swimmer so it's always made sense to harness that and use the water for rehab. I paid a physio who is also a swimming coach to devise a set of pool exercises which I do at least twice a week. It's pretty boring but I love the water and also swim lengths with a float between my legs. I think the chance of injuring yourself is very slight indeed and presume you will be supervised?

So, go for it. I'm sure it will be pleasant and helpful. I think Pavlov has had some, too.

milly, glad your GP is being supportive and hope you don't have nhs type delays in Oz. The thing about work is tricky. They do have a duty of care to you and so need to assess your needs. I had several OH assessments and the appointments only focused on my back problems. I was also asked to do computerised mood tests but I think that's just an nhs thing. ( Probably due to high levels of staff suffering from stress). Ultimately it's up to you how much you tell them. They don't have access to your medical records.

I woke up sore but have been to physio and had a fab massage plus half an hour of core exercise and do feel a bit better. Doing exercise can feel so counter intuitive when in pain but often turns out to be very helpful.

There's a hydrotherapy pool in my GP's area, I'm out of the area so it's not close enough to try it with childcare needs. I do fancy giving it a go for the rehab after surgery, especially if the kids are both in full time school/nursery at that point. My physio suggested going to a normal pool to do exercises because you can do more with less impact, so less chance of injury than out of the water.

Sorry work is being rubbish Milly. I hope those referrals come through soon. My MRI was a big turning point.

Physio and massage sounds good Matilda and I agree exercise can help, I always felt more flexible after the gym but I'm too stressed to go now. I need my only two afternoons for myself and phsyio, massage, meeting friends.

Well I'm in for the long wait for surgery but pain relief is helping a lot. I'm upping the gabapentin to 600 morning 600 lunchtime and 300 night time - it was the dry mouth at night that annoyed me with a bit of jaw tightness and restless legs. Would it make sense to take the extra 300mg somewhere between the other doses, say early evening?

I'm trying not to think about the surgery itself. It's got to happen so no point worrying about the what ifs. I just need to concentrate on being in the best condition for it - asthma check up priority, a bit of weight loss would be nice and being fitter with the muscles working better. I will poop myself on the day no doubt.

Msdj I know someone who did the hydro post- op and certainly found it enjoyable. As your body is supported I guess you will not place too much strain on your back. I hope the 2 months till your consultation passes quickly for you.

I am coping with just co-codamol and ibuprofen. Had another chat to the Chiro but no treatment - I've had no more leg/limb symptoms since those occasional twinges a few days ago. She is fairly certain it is my SIJ.

light, glad you are coping! is the cocodamol new? If things don't change, though, please press your GP for an MRI. I'm always a bit concerned about physios, chirps etc coming up with a diagnosis without any proper investigations. That is not to say I don't respect their opinions, just that a lot of people on here have been told it must be one thing when it turned out to be another thing altogether. Mainly it has turned out to be disc issues on here. (Of course we aren't a typical group, everyone on here has severe back pain that has not resolved easily).

Im struggling today. Went out to buy paint at local Homebase. Couldn't get the paint so struggled up to B&Q. No paint there, either. Came home almost in tears and asked the painter to go himself to the paint merchant because I'm in too much pain. Soon need to pull myself together and visit very sick FIL in giant hospital. All easy and routine tasks that are huge and too hard for me. Self pity fest now over.

Also dropped tester pot which burst open over my jeans.

Sorry. Very negative, misery post. Going on hols on Saturday and done nothing. Builder still in bedroom so can't even begin sorting stuff out. Bad timing.

Matilda

I'm always bleaching my clothes (accidentally), if that's any comfort - for the paint pot bit, at least. Hardly even use bleach for cleaning but it seems to happen with bizarre regularity.

Sorry that your FIL's so ill. I get what you're saying about how easy, routine tasks seem so huge.

Haven't been here much - not sure the pregabalin is working & am also feeling negative & sad.

Family shit going on - trying to come to terms with what an unpleasant, selfish person my DF has become. Quite possibly some early dementia, but all the nasty traits he already had (DM divorced him when I was 12) are becoming exaggerated & unbearable. I hate the horrible things he says about other people & his casual rudeness.

He's the only member of my (birth) family left. I should be on Relationships, shouldn't I - but really can't be arsed.

Hope everyone else is okay. Really glad to read your injections have helped, denial! That's brilliant.

Loon, massive sympathy for the difficult df. No consolation but almost every single person I know is struggling with older family members at the moment. Do you have to have much contact with him? Being in pain whilst sorting out this stuff makes it so much harder.

Trying to summon the energy to go and visit said FIL.

All need pedicure before hols which should be a nice indulgent thing but isn't because of my issues with sitting.

Oh well, at least we aren't alone. Let's have a free for all moan.

Sat in the park, on my own, enjoying the dun and sea view and the calm before the storm of 12 children running about! Bback is holding out ok, feeling it a bit as moving and twisting, oh and been up since 5:30am...

And at you paint spillage Matilda keeping deep breathing and reminding yourself of your holiday!