Vitamin d deficiency

[Icyblue]

My blood results show that my vitamin d level is 21 n/mol. Doctor prescribed a high dose of colecalciferol to be taken for 10 days and then a lower dose of fultium for a further three months. Just checking these are the correct medications. Anyone suffers from vitamin d deficiency and what are your medications?

CremeEgg - Vitamin D3, is the mammalian form of Vitamin D. It is the usual form , found in most supplements. There is a form called D2 , which is plant derived, it may or may not be as effective as D3. The scientific jury is still out on that question.

Most adults if they take 1000 IU daily , then the blood level will rise by about 25 . there is a great individual variation however. Your level will depend upon how much sunshine you receive on your skin, and your diet as well as your supplementation.

IF you are white, if you sunbathe for 20 mins , on both sides, during the middle of the day , in summer , without sunscreen, then your body is likely to make between 10,000 and 20,000 units of vitamin D3. The older you are the less efficient is the skin. You can see from this, that we naturally produce lots of vitamin D .Also sunshine produces beta-endorphins, a natural anti-depressent and a natural painkiller in your skin. It also enables your body to produce Nitric oxide, known to relax the blood system and reduce blood pressure. The right amount of sunshine is very good for you. Do not bake or fry ... though!!

It would seem , that if you personally took 2000 I U per day , in the winter, and possibly 1000 IU in the summer , then you should reach 100. bear in mind what I have said above though. If you are sunbathing often in the summer , ( if there is any sun !! ) , then you won't need any supplement, in summer. The very best thing to do , is check your level in the blood , preferably around March time , just to assure yourself that you are at the level you want. Exposing just face and hands to sunlight is not sufficient. That is a misconception. If you eat a lot of wild salmon , or oily fish , then you may not need as much supplement, as those foods are quite high in Vit D . Very few foods are high , irradiated mushrooms contain a lot of D2, not commonly found in the UK though. Farmed salmon only has 1/4 the level of wild salmon and so is not nearly as good from the Vit D point of view.

It is not necessary to spend a fortune on Vit D supplements. It is very cheap to make. I buy mine from Amazon , it works out at about 4 p per day. An oil filled capsule seems to work well. Vit D is fat soluble , so it makes sense to take it like that. Solid tablets still work well, to the best of my knowledge. I would say it is better to get some from a reputable source, but you don't need to pay a fortune for it.

For Information :
Vitamin D , has a half life ,in the blood , of about 60 days. So , if your level is 58 today , then if you took none in , at all, no sun, supplement or diet, then you can expect your level to be 29 in 2 months. Everyone is different though , bear that in mind. That is why measuring your level is so important.

Hope this helps.

Gateorade can you recommend a magnesium and calcium supplement and what concentration to take? The Vit D supplement, I've had a look on amazon and can see 1,200 or 5000 iu concentrations - does it matter if I go for the lower (cheaper) dose?

I have low Vit D which was considered surprising as at the time, I spent 1-3 hours a day outside in all weathers. I have Fibromyalgia and my GP suggested that I took a Vit D supplement as well as other drugs to see if it helps, she didn't give me a prescription.. just told me to get tablets from a health food store and wasn't overly helpful with dose needed. I've since read that I should take magnesium and calcium to help with the Vit D absorption as well as for their own help in Fibro. There is so much contradiction that I'm finding it hard to work out exactly what I should be taking!

Icyblue have you noticed any improvement in how you feel?

Hi Daisychicken, today will be my fifth day on my treatment but no improvement yet. Hopefully soon.

My levels were very low in January and after supplementing for 3 months they have come back up to normal. However seemingly reputable online sources suggest that significantly higher levels than 'normal', i.e. over 100 nmol/L, is preferable.

It is possible to buy high dose supplements very cheaply online, for example Amazon sells 20,000IU tables made by HuxD3, Pro D3, HealthAid, etc.

Unfortunately I can't say that increasing my levels from 10 to 60 over the last 6 months has improved the way I feel at all.

Just to add if you buy high dose pills then obviously you don't take them every day but rather weekly.

Loads of people claim to be correcting low levels but I have yet to read about anyone seeing an improvement in symptoms or general wellbeing??

Lamberts MagAbsorb is a really good magnesium citrate supplement. There are different forms of magnesium, some are good for you, some not so much. I take the magnesium before bed because it helps to relax muscles. I take 300mg a day. I think that Lamberts and Nature's Best make very good supplements.

I don't take a calcium supp. I just eat live yogurt which I'm sure isn't as good, but I take so many pills I just couldn't bear to add in another one! For the high street I think you can trust Solgar supps. H&B are not so good, in my opinion, I've noticed a lot of inferior ingredients and fillers in their supplements. But they're probably better than nothing!

LongTime I have definitely felt better since I have been supplementing. I had adrenal gland fatigue - partly due to my thyroid condition and partly due to the vicious circle of low energy and poor diet. I've had vitamin d tested twice and iron tested twice. The first time they were both low, now they're both in range, and I do feel more like a functional human being. I have enough energy, even my eyesight has improved.

I think it's ideal to get your nutritional needs through food, but if your vitamin levels are low supplementing definitely helps. You just have to take the right things the right way, e.g never take iron and calcium together. I'm on a large range of supps at the moment - B12 for energy in the morning (Jarrows is THE B12 supplement) plus other B vits and zinc and copper on alternate days, Vit D, iron (with vitamin c for absorption), magnesium - plus I take turmeric and garlic capsules, and CoQ10, and it's really helping me!

CremeEgg- In my opinion, you should take Vitamin D3. That is the mammalian form, it is the most common type of supplement, but you will find D2 , which is made from plant material, but your body then needs to convert to D3. Some scientific research points to some people not getting the expected blood level rise with D2. Other research says they are equivalent. To be on the safe side , take what your body naturally makes.

The key point is to measure your blood level after you have been taking them for at least 2 months. If it has reached 100 then you are doing the right thing, if not, then you would need to change your regimen. i.e. probably add some more per day.

    The very best way to get Vitamin D , is exposure to direct sunlight , for up to 20 mins. The sun has to be above 45 degrees , then the UVB  will be strong enough to make Vit D.  That is in Summer months  between 10  and 3 pm.  In the UK,   in winter you cannot make vit D from sunshine between Oct and March. The sun is not strong enough 

     If you put on suncream before sun exposure, it will stop vit D production  ( 97% drop ), if you use factor 15. 

It is important that you don't burn, that is not necessary. Just a few minutes exposing 40% of skin , in direct sunshine will make about 10,000 IU. The efficiency with which you make vitamin D , is dependent upon your age. Young people are very efficient, seniors not so much. Darker pigmented skin will require more sunlight 3 - 5 times as much , to make the same amount of vitamin D.

Supplementation , with 1000 IU of  D3 daily will normally raise blood level by 25.  It does depend upon your own body's response though , people do vary. (  up to 6 times )  . If you have a digestive problem, you may not be able to absorb efficiently and may need more.  In general,  with a blood level of  58  in Feb,  I would say you would need 2000IU  per day in winter,  and 1000 IU per day in summer. BUT  if you are on a long sunny holiday , outside quite a bit,  then possibly none in the summer.   The best idea is to get your blood level checked. Look for  25hydroxyD3 ,   in  nanomol/litre. (nmol/l).  It is ideal for your blood level to remain reasonably constant and not to swing wildly throughout the year.  A blood level of 150 is perfectly normal for humans, many researchers believe that   100 - 150 is appropriate for human health.   

  Amazon seems to sell some at a very reasonable price. An oil based capsule seems to work well.  

Hope this helps. .

Have started reading this thread with great interest. I think I may be deficient in vit D and have asked GP for test but have been refused. I'm still bfing dc3 ( 8 months) and have been suffering lots of aches and pains. I'm taking Pregnacare Breastfeeding supplement which contains 400 IU D3 and I'm out pram pushing in the sun a lot. The GPs at my surgery( have spoken to 3 about Vit d) all seem to think this is sufficient.

This is good reading. I enjoy sunbathing but due to skin cancer worries always wore sun cream. Whilst doing some searching online about what damage I was causing to my skin I came across a clip on youtube that said skin cancer is increasing even with the introduction of sun cream. One of the reasons they said this may be happening is because we are now so worried about staying out of the sun we are vit d deficient and vit d helps to protect against a number of cancers, including skin cancer. They advised you had 15 mins of unprotected sun exposure a day before wearing sunscreen.

Can you overdose on vit d? If I was to start a supplement not knowing if I'm deficient could I overdose and cause damage?

Bettertobehealthy mentioned irradiated mushrooms for vit D2.

Apparently putting normal mushrooms in sunlight will make vit D2. It's the gills that need to be exposed to UV light.

My well-being anecdote: I spent an autumn / early winter in Australian sunshine - I never sunbathed on purpose after 10 am and in fact spent most of my energies avoiding over-exposure. I returned to Northern Britain in the December and had no hint of sniffles and felt energetic until the April/May of the following year. It was a very different winter to normal.

I noticed after a warm mid-summer and onwards last year my kid's schools have had a low-illness winter (thank goodness as the winter before was dire.) We live where even sunny days can be quite cool and so we are covered up.

ej23 - many UK NHS doctors have to stick to govnm'nt guides. It costs their surgery money to do a Vit D test. See my posts above , you can get a test pak here , by post , with a blood spot on blotting paper. It is £25 , I think. It is the NHS path Lab , Sandwell W. Midlands.

www.vitamindtest.org.uk/

Did you know that the UK Gov't guidelines say that ALL breastfed babies should receive 400 IU per day supplement ? This is imperative , especially if you are only ( no formula milk )breastfeeding , AND more so , if you are low in Vit D. Formula milk does contain vit D. However you should be aware that unless you are vit D replete , you will not be passing sufficient on to your baby by milk. If you are low in Vitamin D , and are not getting a daily dose , either by sunshine or supplement then you should do something about it. You can get a good amount by sunshine , between 10am and 3pm, In summer. Unfortunately , in the UK , good daily sunshine is rare. If you take a supplement , then it is important that it is daily.

( The reason you need daily vit D , is that your liver converts vit d to 25hydroxyD3, which you store in your blood within a day or so , and this becomes unavailable to baby. The fresh vit D , before conversion is passed on in the milk. )

  400 IU per day for the mother is a very low amount.

Consider this, that amount of 400 IU is the same as that recommended for the baby alone, by the govm't. You are many times the weight of the baby and so require a lot more, especially if you are to pass it on to baby by breast milk. You can get a good amount of Vit D by sun exposure, but you have to get a fair proportion of your skin exposed ( 40%) , in direct sun for about 20 mins. Don't burn and there is no advantage in going over 20 mins , because that is all your skin can make that particular day. Direct sun , no clouds , and no windows in between you and the sun. You cannot overdose with Vit D in the sunshine , mother nature is wonderful , you are designed by evolution for the natural environment. Just don't burn. See my other posts.

Hope this helps. !

PS. IF you test your level , and it is below 100, then , to get your level up to above 100, take multiples of 1000 iu per day of D3. Every 1000 International Units, daily, should raise your level by 25 . If you have aches and pains in the bones , please look at my other post regarding low vitamin D and osteomalacia and fibromyalgia.

canIhaveonemoreslice - No overdose has ever been found below 30,000 IU per day by supplement.

It is impossible to overdose on Vitamin D by sunshine, this is because the human body evolved in sunshine, skin photochemical reactions keep the production of Vitamin D within " normal limits" . About 20 mins in direct strong sunshine will allow you to make the maximum amount of Vitamin D , any excess is converted to harmless compounds.

The following day , you can make some more.

    A normally fit , healthy human , can make about  10,000   -   20,000 International Units of Vit D per day in the skin, with fully exposed skin.    

That is why there is no advantage in baking in strong sunlight for hours. To burn , is simply damaging to the skin.

 You are right about skin cancer going up. There are basically 3 types of skin cancer,  melanoma, which causes 95% of deaths, then squamous and basal cell carcinomas ( the remaining 5% ). 


 Research shows that   -   Squamous and basal cell are caused by overexposure to UV light , causing DNA damage, overproliferation of cells , but with rare( although some ) metastasis.  These types of cancer are generally found on the most exposed parts of the human body, top of head, lips,  face  etc. 

The other type,i.e. melanoma is different , it can occur in places on the skin , that are not necessarily sun overexposed, such as sole of foot, nail bed, under chin , even in the oesophagus.

There is a lot of medical research that points to Vitamin D helping to prevent cell proliferation also promoting apoptosis ( programmed cell death ) when that particular cell develops a faulty growth pattern. Without sufficient vitamin D in the bloodstream, these corrective processes may be limited, so resulting in a cancer.

Research has shown that persons with a regular exposure to sunlight , i.e. outdoor workers, have a lower likelyhood of melanoma, the killer, but a higher likelyhood of basal or squamous cell cancers. The regular , moderately exposed people have a higher level of Vitamin D.

When you use a suncream, you block out UVB , which is the Vit D creating mechanism in your skin , BUT , you do not reduce the access of UVA in the same proportion, which can cause DNA damage. Looked at with this in mind , it is not surprising that suncreams do not necessarily reduce melanoma. In fact the incidence of melanoma has been going up , almost in lockstep with the sale of suncream. Our skin evolved in sunlight , but by using chemicals to try and improve things, we may have inadvertently caused ourselves a problem.

With regards to supplementation,

Recently  , the Institute of Medcine ,  in the USA,   increased their RDA   to 600  IU  per day.       However , in the same publication , they have stated that  4000 IU  per day , is safe for an Adult.      In fact if you read the fine print they say that  10,000 IU  is the  NO ADVERSE EVENT LEVEL.   ( NOAEL)


Hope this helps.

Yeah they suggested that you stopped wearing sun cream all together and instead had 15 mins of sun exposure a day. This gave you your vitamin d and also allowed your skin to build its melanin to help protect your skin. Then before your skins natural burning time you covered up instead of putting creams on. I'm going slightly off topic but they stated the reason skin cancer is on the up is that we all think because we have cream on were safe, but in reality were letting UVA in which still causes cancer, and preventing vitamin d and our skins own resources to build melanin, which means our skins more vulnerable to the sun that if we hadn't worn cream and then covered up.

CanIhaveonemoreslice - yep, that is the most up to date thinking on the subject. It is important to know what is going on , and not just be pushed by clever marketing , into doing something which is not necessarily good for you. ( by multi -billion pound companies ). In some ways it is reminiscent of the tobacco companies , pushing their product by whatever means , because they make a big profit from it , but it is not necessarily that good for you the consumer.

I have posted a bit about suncreams in the thread "suncream for kids" in the general travel forum.

Melanin is THE BEST   sunscreen.   It collects above each inividual cell nucleus , to protect from UV cell damage. It acts as a sunscreen factor 2 - 3.   So even if you are tanned , you still need to be careful about overexposure.   Naturally  pigmented persons have a much greater tolerance than white people ,   3 - 5 times.     We all have different skins ,  some of us can hardly tan at all, and those people have to be very careful,   but they still do need Vit D ,  one way or another.

It's so confusing. You do whats best at the time based on what your being told, only to find the info was wrong.

When I was younger there wasn't sun cream and so my mum just put a hat and t shirt on me. As I got older and wanted to tan I learnt that I could stay in the sun without cream for 1 hr max before burning, so that was the time I limited myself to. However since the use of suncream I falsely believed as I now had factor 10 on then I could stay out in the sun longer and not worry about the effects of the sun because I was wearing cream, many a sunny day I've sat out for 4hrs or more. As long as I didn't burn I was safe! How wrong that it now and too late for me to undo any of the damage now. I just have to pray that I'm not one of the unlucky ones to develop skin cancer.
I make sure now my kids are covered with hats and t shirts and shade, with suncream used to protect arms/legs. instead of thinking suncream is protection and so they don't need to be covered up.
They need to do proper research on sun creams.

Just a question that you may know. Soltan creams offer a 5* UVA rating. How much UVA do they actually block out?

I'm taking pregnacare breastfeeding too. I'm going to take the postal test. I gave dd baby d drops over winter but maybe need to continue.

I'm always surprised the health visitors etc never mention this. I told the ha at the 12 month check that dd had had baby d drops but she just said well you can do that if you want to....

I'm afraid I can't tell you , .... it depends upon their formulation , ratios of various chemicals etc.

It is interesting to look at their advertising, apparently they have been awarded 5 stars , By who ?

 They do not say it  is 100% UVA absorbtion, which they would , if it did.  My guess would be  somewhere between 50  and 70% ,  but I could be way out.     They say  SPF 50 ,   which is only of the UVB content of the sunlight.    Another interesting thing they say is avoid  midday sun ,  11 to 3 ,  but in the UK   outside those times there is very little UVB, and so it is very unlikely you would make any vitamin D ,    but with factor 50 on ,   you definately wouldn't make any . 


   Some sunscreens work by absorbing the  UVB   , and then reradiating that back into the skin as UVA.  I don't know if this one does,   it is one of the later formulations, so probably not.  

    It would be interesting to find out what  testing has been done on those ingredients. How long for ,   and what percentage of UVA is absorbed.    Don't forget , this is a cosmetic ,   so it doesn't have to have much testing ,  but I presume there must be some kind of safety sheet/ data sheet about it . 

If you are really interested , here is a link to a lecture by a Ph.D researcher at the University of California. It shows links between sunscreen/cancer etc etc. Vit D

or search :    gorham sunscreen         in youtube.

Oops ha should say HV

Wow, thanks bettertobehealthy, you're like a vit d bible! I ordered test yesterday and have done it today. The guidelines were lower than what you say, however. They put less than 15 =severe deficiency, 15 to 30= deficiency, 30.1 to 50 insufficiency and greater than 50 adequate.

Wow, thanks for the advice bettertobehealthy, you're like a vit d bible. Ordered test yesterday and have done it today. The adequate result guidelines were lower than what you suggest,however. They say less than 15 is a severe deficiency, 15 to 30 is a deficiency, 30.1 to 50 insufficiency and greater than 50 is adequate.

ej23 Glad to hear that you have done the test. Let us know what your level turns out to be.

With regard to Levels. Don't forget , the Lab is an NHS path lab, and will be reflecting the current consensus on Vit D levels.

The current consensus goes like this : most people in the UK are around 50 , so that is "normal ".

   But , consider what a human beings level is , when they live an ancestral lifestyle, outdoors a lot, farming for instance , the level is about 120 -140.    Even today ,  some outdoor workers etc have those levels. That is why NHS guidlines state that even 167  is normal, or is perfectly ok,  there are some people with those levels , and they are perfectly healthy.   Over millions of years, other primates  and us have had those levels. We evolved , with those levels , with daily doses from the sun.  

     Doses of Vit D and levels , right now , officially  , are predicated  only upon bone health. It is not accepted that Vit D , has influence on other aspects of health.  In other words the consensus opinion is that official guidelines only consider what will keep your bones healthy.   Whilst it is true , that if you have a level of 50,  that should keep your bones healthy, (at least prevent rickets ) there are myriad other body systems which need higher levels. There is an inordinate amount of research pointing that way. For instance regulation of calcium absorbtion, is optimised at 75 - 80.  So if you don't consume much calcuim,  and you have low levels of Vit D ,  you could have a problem with osteoporosis osteopenia, osteomalacia, etc.  The American Assoc. of Endocrinologists  have recently raised their rec. level to 75 .  Things are slowly moving in the right direction.  It has been found , that practically every cell in the human body has a receptor for Vitamin D. It is a signalling compound ( hormone ) which enables those cells to create proteins by swiching  on or off genes. Vitamin D influences growth, muscle function, strength or otherwise of the immune system, brain development ,  auto immune response etc etc.  There is lots of evidence to show this.  

Here in the uk,  sunlight is weak, and in Winter we just cannot make Vit D from it. Humans did not evolve at this latitude, no other primates live at this latitude. We had to develop white skin , over thousands of years, in order to survive. Our white skin enables us to make Vit D. Now we are living indoors, frightened of the sun and this is causing a problem. 

     Consider this  :     Throughout history,  mothers had babies, and breast fed them. All the nourishment needed was in that breast milk. In the UK, now, the gov has to recommend  Vit D  for breast fed infants ,because they know that very likely there is insufficient Vit D in breast milk.    BUT , if that mother  was receiving a sufficient dose of VIT D , daily , from the sun, the baby would receive what it needs. Professors Wagner and Hollis , over in the Medical University of S. Carolina , have run a trial  giving pregnant mothers 4000 IU per day. Proving this is true. Also by the way ,    their trial showed these ladies ( with a proper level of Vit D) had much reduced pre-eclamsia, much reduced need for  C -section,  much reduced vaginitis, etc etc.

If you are interested , have a look at this lecture by Prof Hollis. Very informative.

Or search bruce hollis in you tube.

If you watch the video, it is somewhat technical, make sure you realise 40 nanogram per ml, is equivalent to the British equivalent to 90 nanomol per litre. In other words , multiply by 2.5.