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General health
Vitamin d deficiency
54 replies
Icyblue ·
02/06/2014 12:44
My blood results show that my vitamin d level is 21 n/mol. Doctor prescribed a high dose of colecalciferol to be taken for 10 days and then a lower dose of fultium for a further three months. Just checking these are the correct medications. Anyone suffers from vitamin d deficiency and what are your medications?
Weather looks good rest of the week. I'm going to go outside for an hour each day at midday on cream. I've brown hair and eyes don't burn easily,
Hope this helps me and dd
Bettertobehealth. Thanks for the California link. I found it recently too when researching skin cancer causes. It's what frightened the life out of me and made me realise I hadn't been as safe in the sun as suncream manufactures had led me to believe.
To be honest I'm so frightened of the damage I may have already done to my skin I'm now just staying out of the sun or wearing t shirts where possible and taking vit d supplements instead.
catellington You have done the right thing with regard to drops for baby, particularly in Winter.
You could stop the drops IF you are sure that baby is getting the required amount of Vit D from milk. The baby needs about 300 - 400 IU per day , (from all sources diet, supplement, sun etc. ,) increasing as weight goes up.
In an ideal world, breast milk, should contain at least 400 IU Vit D per litre, . Unfortunately this is unlikely in the UK , unless you are taking supplements , ( a lot more than the 400 IU found in pregnacare would be necessary). You may be regularly sunbathing and receiving UVB, but in Britain , that is pretty unreliable. That is why the gov recommend drops. It is a disgrace that most babies don't receive that supplementation. It would cost only a pound or two for each baby. The government's "Healthy Start Programme " of vitamin uptake is pitiful.
I highly recommend you watch the Hollis video above. He is a highly respected medical Professor. The level in your milk will go up IF you yourself get enough Vit D , but 400 IU is not enough for you.
Sunlight , without sunscreen, will work, for you, and will make a great deal of difference.
If you are breastfeeding only, and you are taking daily supplements , in the range of thousands of units, (3000 -6000 say ) then you can expect your baby to reach a good blood level, without baby drops.
Now: a blood level achieved by baby, by the gov recommended supplementation of approx 300 IU , to baby, will be in the order of 80 - 100 nmol/litre. This is perfectly good and proper.
You should aim to maintain this. It is somewhat of a mystery that officialdom does not maintain that recommendation of blood level throughout life , at least right through infancy and junior years. BUT, to maintain that blood level your child needs to get more Vit D from all sources. ( diet, sun, supplement) as she grows and increases in weight.
It would not be unreasonable to check vit d levels in March , every year, to make sure good levels are achieved.
A human being requires approx 65 -75 IU per day per kilogram of weight,( from all sources- sun,supplement,food, sunbed etc . ) for optimum vitamin D levels , to promote optimum health , at least from the vitamin D point of view.
UK recommendations for Vit D supplementation of babies under 6 months is out of line with other countries. We say " start after 6 months " , whereas others start at birth. For instance , the USA says supplement by 400 IU within a few days of birth. The gap that we have in this country is not a good thing . IF the mother is breastfeeding only , and she is not taking sufficient supplements, then the child's blood level will not be optimum in most cases, unless mum takes the baby out in the summer sunshine, for a few minutes. DO NOT BURN. NO SUNSCREEN . Winter babies may be at risk, as the sunlight is not strong enough to generate Vit D. Formula milk does contain vit D , but breast milk in UK is often low in Vit D ( possibly just 25 IU per litre in winter) , but breast is best in most other respects.
Circumstances are different for almost every baby , every mother, every ethnicity , every latitude that you live. A Glasgow mother won't get much sunshine , a family living in Southern Spain will. The important thing , is how much vit D is the baby getting.
I'm afraid that there is so much information now available, recent research etc , it is difficult to convey it in a few lines of text in a chatroom. However I hope this helps.
If you watch the video, it is somewhat technical, make sure you realise 40 nanogram per ml, is equivalent to the British equivalent to 90 nanomol per litre. In other words , multiply by 2.5.
ej23 Glad to hear that you have done the test. Let us know what your level turns out to be.
With regard to Levels. Don't forget , the Lab is an NHS path lab, and will be reflecting the current consensus on Vit D levels.
The current consensus goes like this : most people in the UK are around 50 , so that is "normal ".
But , consider what a human beings level is , when they live an ancestral lifestyle, outdoors a lot, farming for instance , the level is about 120 -140. Even today , some outdoor workers etc have those levels. That is why NHS guidlines state that even 167 is normal, or is perfectly ok, there are some people with those levels , and they are perfectly healthy. Over millions of years, other primates and us have had those levels. We evolved , with those levels , with daily doses from the sun.
Doses of Vit D and levels , right now , officially , are predicated only upon bone health. It is not accepted that Vit D , has influence on other aspects of health. In other words the consensus opinion is that official guidelines only consider what will keep your bones healthy. Whilst it is true , that if you have a level of 50, that should keep your bones healthy, (at least prevent rickets ) there are myriad other body systems which need higher levels. There is an inordinate amount of research pointing that way. For instance regulation of calcium absorbtion, is optimised at 75 - 80. So if you don't consume much calcuim, and you have low levels of Vit D , you could have a problem with osteoporosis osteopenia, osteomalacia, etc. The American Assoc. of Endocrinologists have recently raised their rec. level to 75 . Things are slowly moving in the right direction. It has been found , that practically every cell in the human body has a receptor for Vitamin D. It is a signalling compound ( hormone ) which enables those cells to create proteins by swiching on or off genes. Vitamin D influences growth, muscle function, strength or otherwise of the immune system, brain development , auto immune response etc etc. There is lots of evidence to show this.
Here in the uk, sunlight is weak, and in Winter we just cannot make Vit D from it. Humans did not evolve at this latitude, no other primates live at this latitude. We had to develop white skin , over thousands of years, in order to survive. Our white skin enables us to make Vit D. Now we are living indoors, frightened of the sun and this is causing a problem.
Consider this : Throughout history, mothers had babies, and breast fed them. All the nourishment needed was in that breast milk. In the UK, now, the gov has to recommend Vit D for breast fed infants ,because they know that very likely there is insufficient Vit D in breast milk. BUT , if that mother was receiving a sufficient dose of VIT D , daily , from the sun, the baby would receive what it needs. Professors Wagner and Hollis , over in the Medical University of S. Carolina , have run a trial giving pregnant mothers 4000 IU per day. Proving this is true. Also by the way , their trial showed these ladies ( with a proper level of Vit D) had much reduced pre-eclamsia, much reduced need for C -section, much reduced vaginitis, etc etc.
If you are interested , have a look at this lecture by Prof Hollis. Very informative.
Wow, thanks for the advice bettertobehealthy, you're like a vit d bible. Ordered test yesterday and have done it today. The adequate result guidelines were lower than what you suggest,however. They say less than 15 is a severe deficiency, 15 to 30 is a deficiency, 30.1 to 50 insufficiency and greater than 50 is adequate.
Wow, thanks bettertobehealthy, you're like a vit d bible! I ordered test yesterday and have done it today. The guidelines were lower than what you say, however. They put less than 15 =severe deficiency, 15 to 30= deficiency, 30.1 to 50 insufficiency and greater than 50 adequate.
I'm afraid I can't tell you , .... it depends upon their formulation , ratios of various chemicals etc.
It is interesting to look at their advertising, apparently they have been awarded 5 stars , By who ?
They do not say it is 100% UVA absorbtion, which they would , if it did. My guess would be somewhere between 50 and 70% , but I could be way out. They say SPF 50 , which is only of the UVB content of the sunlight. Another interesting thing they say is avoid midday sun , 11 to 3 , but in the UK outside those times there is very little UVB, and so it is very unlikely you would make any vitamin D , but with factor 50 on , you definately wouldn't make any .
Some sunscreens work by absorbing the UVB , and then reradiating that back into the skin as UVA. I don't know if this one does, it is one of the later formulations, so probably not.
It would be interesting to find out what testing has been done on those ingredients. How long for , and what percentage of UVA is absorbed. Don't forget , this is a cosmetic , so it doesn't have to have much testing , but I presume there must be some kind of safety sheet/ data sheet about it .
If you are really interested , here is a link to a lecture by a Ph.D researcher at the University of California. It shows links between sunscreen/cancer etc etc. Vit D
I'm taking pregnacare breastfeeding too. I'm going to take the postal test. I gave dd baby d drops over winter but maybe need to continue.
I'm always surprised the health visitors etc never mention this. I told the ha at the 12 month check that dd had had baby d drops but she just said well you can do that if you want to....
It's so confusing. You do whats best at the time based on what your being told, only to find the info was wrong.
When I was younger there wasn't sun cream and so my mum just put a hat and t shirt on me. As I got older and wanted to tan I learnt that I could stay in the sun without cream for 1 hr max before burning, so that was the time I limited myself to. However since the use of suncream I falsely believed as I now had factor 10 on then I could stay out in the sun longer and not worry about the effects of the sun because I was wearing cream, many a sunny day I've sat out for 4hrs or more. As long as I didn't burn I was safe! How wrong that it now and too late for me to undo any of the damage now. I just have to pray that I'm not one of the unlucky ones to develop skin cancer.
I make sure now my kids are covered with hats and t shirts and shade, with suncream used to protect arms/legs. instead of thinking suncream is protection and so they don't need to be covered up.
They need to do proper research on sun creams.
CanIhaveonemoreslice - yep, that is the most up to date thinking on the subject. It is important to know what is going on , and not just be pushed by clever marketing , into doing something which is not necessarily good for you. ( by multi -billion pound companies ). In some ways it is reminiscent of the tobacco companies , pushing their product by whatever means , because they make a big profit from it , but it is not necessarily that good for you the consumer.
I have posted a bit about suncreams in the thread "suncream for kids" in the general travel forum.
Melanin is THE BEST sunscreen. It collects above each inividual cell nucleus , to protect from UV cell damage. It acts as a sunscreen factor 2 - 3. So even if you are tanned , you still need to be careful about overexposure. Naturally pigmented persons have a much greater tolerance than white people , 3 - 5 times. We all have different skins , some of us can hardly tan at all, and those people have to be very careful, but they still do need Vit D , one way or another.
Yeah they suggested that you stopped wearing sun cream all together and instead had 15 mins of sun exposure a day. This gave you your vitamin d and also allowed your skin to build its melanin to help protect your skin. Then before your skins natural burning time you covered up instead of putting creams on. I'm going slightly off topic but they stated the reason skin cancer is on the up is that we all think because we have cream on were safe, but in reality were letting UVA in which still causes cancer, and preventing vitamin d and our skins own resources to build melanin, which means our skins more vulnerable to the sun that if we hadn't worn cream and then covered up.
canIhaveonemoreslice - No overdose has ever been found below 30,000 IU per day by supplement.
It is impossible to overdose on Vitamin D by sunshine, this is because the human body evolved in sunshine, skin photochemical reactions keep the production of Vitamin D within " normal limits" . About 20 mins in direct strong sunshine will allow you to make the maximum amount of Vitamin D , any excess is converted to harmless compounds.
The following day , you can make some more.
A normally fit , healthy human , can make about 10,000 - 20,000 International Units of Vit D per day in the skin, with fully exposed skin.
That is why there is no advantage in baking in strong sunlight for hours. To burn , is simply damaging to the skin.
You are right about skin cancer going up. There are basically 3 types of skin cancer, melanoma, which causes 95% of deaths, then squamous and basal cell carcinomas ( the remaining 5% ).
Research shows that - Squamous and basal cell are caused by overexposure to UV light , causing DNA damage, overproliferation of cells , but with rare( although some ) metastasis. These types of cancer are generally found on the most exposed parts of the human body, top of head, lips, face etc.
The other type,i.e. melanoma is different , it can occur in places on the skin , that are not necessarily sun overexposed, such as sole of foot, nail bed, under chin , even in the oesophagus.
There is a lot of medical research that points to Vitamin D helping to prevent cell proliferation also promoting apoptosis ( programmed cell death ) when that particular cell develops a faulty growth pattern. Without sufficient vitamin D in the bloodstream, these corrective processes may be limited, so resulting in a cancer.
Research has shown that persons with a regular exposure to sunlight , i.e. outdoor workers, have a lower likelyhood of melanoma, the killer, but a higher likelyhood of basal or squamous cell cancers. The regular , moderately exposed people have a higher level of Vitamin D.
When you use a suncream, you block out UVB , which is the Vit D creating mechanism in your skin , BUT , you do not reduce the access of UVA in the same proportion, which can cause DNA damage. Looked at with this in mind , it is not surprising that suncreams do not necessarily reduce melanoma. In fact the incidence of melanoma has been going up , almost in lockstep with the sale of suncream. Our skin evolved in sunlight , but by using chemicals to try and improve things, we may have inadvertently caused ourselves a problem.
With regards to supplementation,
Recently , the Institute of Medcine , in the USA, increased their RDA to 600 IU per day. However , in the same publication , they have stated that 4000 IU per day , is safe for an Adult. In fact if you read the fine print they say that 10,000 IU is the NO ADVERSE EVENT LEVEL. ( NOAEL)
ej23 - many UK NHS doctors have to stick to govnm'nt guides. It costs their surgery money to do a Vit D test. See my posts above , you can get a test pak here , by post , with a blood spot on blotting paper. It is £25 , I think. It is the NHS path Lab , Sandwell W. Midlands.
Did you know that the UK Gov't guidelines say that ALL breastfed babies should receive 400 IU per day supplement ? This is imperative , especially if you are only ( no formula milk )breastfeeding , AND more so , if you are low in Vit D. Formula milk does contain vit D. However you should be aware that unless you are vit D replete , you will not be passing sufficient on to your baby by milk. If you are low in Vitamin D , and are not getting a daily dose , either by sunshine or supplement then you should do something about it. You can get a good amount by sunshine , between 10am and 3pm, In summer. Unfortunately , in the UK , good daily sunshine is rare. If you take a supplement , then it is important that it is daily.
( The reason you need daily vit D , is that your liver converts vit d to 25hydroxyD3, which you store in your blood within a day or so , and this becomes unavailable to baby. The fresh vit D , before conversion is passed on in the milk. )
400 IU per day for the mother is a very low amount.
Consider this, that amount of 400 IU is the same as that recommended for the baby alone, by the govm't. You are many times the weight of the baby and so require a lot more, especially if you are to pass it on to baby by breast milk. You can get a good amount of Vit D by sun exposure, but you have to get a fair proportion of your skin exposed ( 40%) , in direct sun for about 20 mins. Don't burn and there is no advantage in going over 20 mins , because that is all your skin can make that particular day. Direct sun , no clouds , and no windows in between you and the sun. You cannot overdose with Vit D in the sunshine , mother nature is wonderful , you are designed by evolution for the natural environment. Just don't burn. See my other posts.
Hope this helps. !
PS. IF you test your level , and it is below 100, then , to get your level up to above 100, take multiples of 1000 iu per day of D3. Every 1000 International Units, daily, should raise your level by 25 . If you have aches and pains in the bones , please look at my other post regarding low vitamin D and osteomalacia and fibromyalgia.
My well-being anecdote: I spent an autumn / early winter in Australian sunshine - I never sunbathed on purpose after 10 am and in fact spent most of my energies avoiding over-exposure. I returned to Northern Britain in the December and had no hint of sniffles and felt energetic until the April/May of the following year. It was a very different winter to normal.
I noticed after a warm mid-summer and onwards last year my kid's schools have had a low-illness winter (thank goodness as the winter before was dire.) We live where even sunny days can be quite cool and so we are covered up.
This is good reading. I enjoy sunbathing but due to skin cancer worries always wore sun cream. Whilst doing some searching online about what damage I was causing to my skin I came across a clip on youtube that said skin cancer is increasing even with the introduction of sun cream. One of the reasons they said this may be happening is because we are now so worried about staying out of the sun we are vit d deficient and vit d helps to protect against a number of cancers, including skin cancer. They advised you had 15 mins of unprotected sun exposure a day before wearing sunscreen.
Can you overdose on vit d? If I was to start a supplement not knowing if I'm deficient could I overdose and cause damage?
Have started reading this thread with great interest. I think I may be deficient in vit D and have asked GP for test but have been refused. I'm still bfing dc3 ( 8 months) and have been suffering lots of aches and pains. I'm taking Pregnacare Breastfeeding supplement which contains 400 IU D3 and I'm out pram pushing in the sun a lot. The GPs at my surgery( have spoken to 3 about Vit d) all seem to think this is sufficient.
CremeEgg- In my opinion, you should take Vitamin D3. That is the mammalian form, it is the most common type of supplement, but you will find D2 , which is made from plant material, but your body then needs to convert to D3. Some scientific research points to some people not getting the expected blood level rise with D2. Other research says they are equivalent. To be on the safe side , take what your body naturally makes.
The key point is to measure your blood level after you have been taking them for at least 2 months. If it has reached 100 then you are doing the right thing, if not, then you would need to change your regimen. i.e. probably add some more per day.
The very best way to get Vitamin D , is exposure to direct sunlight , for up to 20 mins. The sun has to be above 45 degrees , then the UVB will be strong enough to make Vit D. That is in Summer months between 10 and 3 pm. In the UK, in winter you cannot make vit D from sunshine between Oct and March. The sun is not strong enough
If you put on suncream before sun exposure, it will stop vit D production ( 97% drop ), if you use factor 15.
It is important that you don't burn, that is not necessary. Just a few minutes exposing 40% of skin , in direct sunshine will make about 10,000 IU. The efficiency with which you make vitamin D , is dependent upon your age. Young people are very efficient, seniors not so much. Darker pigmented skin will require more sunlight 3 - 5 times as much , to make the same amount of vitamin D.
Supplementation , with 1000 IU of D3 daily will normally raise blood level by 25. It does depend upon your own body's response though , people do vary. ( up to 6 times ) . If you have a digestive problem, you may not be able to absorb efficiently and may need more. In general, with a blood level of 58 in Feb, I would say you would need 2000IU per day in winter, and 1000 IU per day in summer. BUT if you are on a long sunny holiday , outside quite a bit, then possibly none in the summer. The best idea is to get your blood level checked. Look for 25hydroxyD3 , in nanomol/litre. (nmol/l). It is ideal for your blood level to remain reasonably constant and not to swing wildly throughout the year. A blood level of 150 is perfectly normal for humans, many researchers believe that 100 - 150 is appropriate for human health.
Amazon seems to sell some at a very reasonable price. An oil based capsule seems to work well.
LongTime I have definitely felt better since I have been supplementing. I had adrenal gland fatigue - partly due to my thyroid condition and partly due to the vicious circle of low energy and poor diet. I've had vitamin d tested twice and iron tested twice. The first time they were both low, now they're both in range, and I do feel more like a functional human being. I have enough energy, even my eyesight has improved.
I think it's ideal to get your nutritional needs through food, but if your vitamin levels are low supplementing definitely helps. You just have to take the right things the right way, e.g never take iron and calcium together. I'm on a large range of supps at the moment - B12 for energy in the morning (Jarrows is THE B12 supplement) plus other B vits and zinc and copper on alternate days, Vit D, iron (with vitamin c for absorption), magnesium - plus I take turmeric and garlic capsules, and CoQ10, and it's really helping me!
Lamberts MagAbsorb is a really good magnesium citrate supplement. There are different forms of magnesium, some are good for you, some not so much. I take the magnesium before bed because it helps to relax muscles. I take 300mg a day. I think that Lamberts and Nature's Best make very good supplements.
I don't take a calcium supp. I just eat live yogurt which I'm sure isn't as good, but I take so many pills I just couldn't bear to add in another one! For the high street I think you can trust Solgar supps. H&B are not so good, in my opinion, I've noticed a lot of inferior ingredients and fillers in their supplements. But they're probably better than nothing!