Anti-whooping cough vaccine for pregnant women

[Borlotta]

Hi, this is the first time I post on this forum but I have been following it for a while. It is very useful. I am 28 weeks pregnant, I live in London and I am confronted with the decision whether to have the anti-whooping cough vaccination or not. The midwife proposed it to me weeks ago but she said there was no rush as it can be done until week 38. Yet, I cannot make up my mind. Here the reasons: it was introduced only two years ago in a kind of energy/experimental manner. The specific vaccine used had not been tried on pregnant women before and therefore we do not know the mid to long term effects. Some women also report they had stillborns after they took it. Of course they don't have the proof but it is ver scary. Furthermore, I have just learned the vaccine which has been used until now (Repevax) will be replaced in July 2014 by another one. They say it is the same composition but produced by a different company. I still wonder why are they changing it? Also, I do wonder if it is still wise to do the anti-wp vaccine now that the emergency seems over. The number of people getting wp has decreased dramatically since 2012 (which was the peak year). I am considering to have more information about the incidence of wc in my area, how many women take it and decline it etc. I wonder if anyone here can share their experience and thoughts? Thanks

• vaccination. Oops!

Hi all,

I've just spent the last hour or so reading through this thread and I have to say I'm even more confused now that I was before! Completely agonising over whether to have the WC job or not, can't sleep for thinking about it. I see the last post here was in July, when the new vaccine was introduced - does anyone have any more current info/data about it, specifically on side effects and possible complications as it has now been in circulation for about 4 months?

Thanks

Hi RachGo1, I understand your hesitation and you're certainly not alone. There have been several discussions on this with lots of useful links if you search, particularly on the pregnancy boards.

As for the new vaccine, as you point out this was introduced in the summer. This is unfortunate, as data had been published on its predecessor (Repevax) supporting the theory that maternal antibodies are transferred to the foetus (and would be expected to give some protection for the first weeks, although this would be expected to wear off pretty quickly), and reassuringly that there was no significant increase in short term adverse effects (like still birth and so on) although there was still a shortage of longer term data. The latest minutes of the JCVI show that they are expecting similar study results from Boostrix in the coming months, and I think it's likely that they'll show a similar story as the vaccines are quite similar. I also believe that Boostrix is used in other countries, which was part of the rationale behind using the 'similar' Repevax, although when I was looking into this there wasn't any longer term data on safety for this either, although if anyone is aware of studies that have come out since I'd be interested to read them.

Overall (as I see it) the vaccine is most likely fine, seems to work as hypothesised in women with previous immunity to pertussis, and doesn't seem to be linked to negative short term effects, although for me there are some questions about the longer term effects, including on the developing immune system (shown by the poorly understood blunting, as you'll have read). I think the risk-benefit equation is very individual and depends on the number of cases in your region (see health protection agency notifications of infectious diseases for a regional breakdown), whether you plan to travel on public transport, whether the baby will have a lot of contact with other people etc.

Sorry for the essay - hope it helps!

Just come across this thread, am sure the person who posted has already had to decide what to do.
I got the wc vac end July 2014, for 48 hours afterwards I had reducf foetal movement. Baby stopped growing in my womb and medics decided to deliver early. Baby born at 36 4, weighing 5lb.

I don't have a long story but had the vaccine at 35 weeks with zero side effects (so far). This was after agonising over the decision for months. In the long run can't say what will happen though.

Sorry, forgot to add that DD was born on time & no ill effect until now (7 weeks)

Have it fgs - it's whooping cough season right now - don't risk it please follow medical advice they know what they're talking about. I had it, baby was fine.

Hi Borlotta

I'm sure many mothers to be are in the same boat as you with how confused you feel about the vaccination. Unlike Rosewind, I am a mother to be and confident in my choice to not accept the non-mandatory vaccine.

I would like to think that I am up to date with the vaccine issues and the ingredients that are in them. But, after my booking appointment this morning, the Whooping Cough vaccine was sprung on on me. I am in fact, very shocked.

The vaccine is there to insert good antibodies into the mother and unborn child to protect against the chance (which appears to be very little to me) of catching whooping cough. Surely, our own bodies can produce such antibodies, especially if breastfeeding a child, that's the best way to build their immune system! They have their own little chemist right there in their body. Surely, vaccinating your children before being born shows you how eager the State is to weaken your child. Why have aluminium in the vaccine? Have you researched what aluminium does to your body? What would it do to a baby not even born!?!?!? Why is it bundled in with three other vaccines? Surely there is enough brain power for the whooping cough vaccine to be separated into just one vaccine if it was that deadly? If you look at the Boostrix-IPV vaccine list - www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/28679/SPC/Boostrix-IPV+suspension+for+injection+in+pre-filled+syringe/ it is composed separately of each ingredient, so why are they injecting you with three other vaccines too?

All evidence provided shows that 14 babies have died, but there is NO information. What country were they in, what state were the parents in, did the mother eat healthily, did she smoke, did she have the injection already?

It's all fear mongering.

My opinion is that if the FDA or Government suggest it, I'm not going to do it. I know best for my baby, not the Government or governing bodies. There's just not enough evidence. If they were so safe, then why is there such a debate? Why are children and adults catching the virus or bacteria they have been vaccinated for? If vaccines are safe, please tell me why there is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Programme, introduced in 1986 - in the US has already awarded $2 Billion dollars on 2,398 claims.

ROSEWIND - you seem like an interesting woman, if you are a woman. You're not pregnant and do not insist that you have a loved one who is pregnant to carry out your ever so extensive research on such a small matter to someone who is not carrying. Why? You write in such a way, and have all the information at your fingerstips - perhaps you work for GSK or JCVI and are trying to influence us pregnant women? You seem to offer your opinion and keep us updated with how safe this vaccine is....for what reason?

I have also been recently offered this vaccine at my booking in appointment and at the moment trying to weigh up the risks of not having it. I live in Wales (deepest darkest), no cities/overcrowding. At this moment in time I am erring on the side of not having....I have looked at figures and they are decreasing.

Anyone else have thought on this?

Definitely not

MrsHazel I guessed :-) I in fact work for a company that is involved in the primary production of vaccines and so am pretty clued up on vaccine risks etc. I have pretty much made up my mind on this one but wanted to hear everyone's opinions.

I would like to know the most recent figures on whooping cough in Wales but the data i can find only goes up to 2012.

Do you know if there are any more up to date stats?

x

Haha thought id be clear :-)

Wow you must have some really good knowledge then! I just don't trust what is given to us as the public as being wholesome information. You have no idea what health the parents and baby are who end up catching whooping cough - do they eat healthy or McDonald's, so they breast fees their children etc, there's never ending questions and views with only an "experts" opinion of they are indeed experts .... Pharmaceutical companies are not there to care for us... Otherwise healthcare would be free for all... But that's a different convo :-)

Nope I can't see any more stats! Which is confusing if they offer it in 2015 and 2013 is the last year on their records.

I do some digging and find out if I see anything!

X

Good luck with your decision and best wishes for health for the future :-)

Oh dear......

"The vaccine is there to insert good antibodies into the mother and unborn child to protect against the chance (which appears to be very little to me) of catching whooping cough."

Yes - that's clearly how it works. There is little chance of catching it, because of immunisation. Durr.....

"Surely, our own bodies can produce such antibodies, especially if breastfeeding a child, that's the best way to build their immune system! They have their own little chemist right there in their body."

Yes. We all produce antibodies to Smallpox, Cholera, and Polio. That's clearly why there were never any epidemics of these diseases before vaccines.

"Surely, vaccinating your children before being born shows you how eager the State is to weaken your child. Why have aluminium in the vaccine? Have you researched what aluminium does to your body? What would it do to a baby not even born!?!?!? Why is it bundled in with three other vaccines? Surely there is enough brain power for the whooping cough vaccine to be separated into just one vaccine if it was that deadly?

It's all fear mongering."

You said it my love. The above paragraph is full to the brim with fear-mongering. The tired old 'aluminium' rubbish trotted out by the anti-vaxxers endlessly. Totally discredited, but it doesn't stop you does it?

"My opinion is that if the FDA or Government suggest it, I'm not going to do it. I know best for my baby, not the Government or governing bodies."

Yes, you with you doctorate in microbiology. Oh, wait - your doctorate in 'being a mum, which gifts you with the knowledge that trumps science.'

"There's just not enough evidence. If they were so safe, then why is there such a debate?"

There is plenty of evidence. We don't make very many iron lungs anymore for a start. There is debate because of the simple-minded thinking narcissists thinking they somehow know best...just because they have a child! That and the rise of the of the internet - somewhere where anyone with a personality disorder and a PC can tell the world that the Knights Templar are seeding the clouds to poison us all!

"You seem to offer your opinion and keep us updated with how safe this vaccine is....for what reason?"

Perhaps she is tying to do the Op and you a favour?

Ha, ok.

Then it won't matter that my child is not vaccinated and yours is because your child won't catch what my child has.

I may not be a microbiologist but I have common sense.

Perhaps you should dig into the likes of how pharmaceutical companies were formed, who owned them and what there agenda is.

Maybe how the medical corporations started in the US, etc.

You may be shocked. Even the likes of Bill Gates has an interesting role in vaccinations.

It's my opinion and you seem to smash an absolute valid one. Especially by naming me an anti-vaxxer. Pathetic. It's called a choice; if your child us vaccinated you won't need to worry about mine, right?

Oh I meant to ask, why us aluminium in the vaccine again? .......

Is not us*

I'm almost 27 weeks and have been advised to get this vaccine/booster. I have never been in contact with WC, nor have I ever been immunised against it. Does this mean that the booster jab will actually do anything for me and my baby? I have no antibodies to boost and tbh if that's the case is there any proof it's actually beneficial to me?

Ooh is there a conspiracy about Bill Gates being involved in vaccines? Where do I found out about this Deadly Secret Conspiracy?

Oh in all the publicity and advertising he does for his vaccination charity.

Vlad - I'm interested to see those studies that have 'discredited' the risk of Aluminium in vaccines. Can you post links to them please?

From what I've read these 'safety studies' boil down to two studies - one is based on one adult male and the other was based on four rabbits. (Flarend et al)

TIA

Maybe dig a little deeper to delay.... Yes he's saving the third world with vaccines and not water... Comic relief is every year and they still don't have running water according to my train advertisements. Perhaps he could persuade his colleagues who could water Nevada and Arizona to help with water in Africa, or that the corrupt governments could actually give the aid to the people, the list could go on.

But seriously, you guys are quick to discredit my post because I am against it with valid questions that you cannot answer.

Why is there three other vaccines in the WC vaccine, even though it was introduced in 2012 and where are the 2014 statistics?
Forget my opinion, yes it's far away from any of yours and that's fine. You can follow the sheep... There's just not enough information to make a good decision.

The testing pool is not described, for example, what are these mothers and families like what do they eat how do they live, how many other children do they have, what are there home conditions, and that goes for poor souls that died.

Why are metals in the vaccines? Honestly? Does my body need this, doe my baby's. They are valid questions and you rip me apart without any real adult answer.

This is WHY there is a debate about there safety because there just aren't good enough answers for these questions.

We have supposedly irradicated all these diseases, but, there's more vaccines now than when I was a child and it's nearly 30 years on!

It's just too much... If there were only a few vaccines you might be more inclined to think about it.

One last point, it is more common (in the states) that there are outbreaks of virus's from the strain of the vaccine! Measles being the most recent.

It's tough for a mother to make a decision for another life, especially when the information isn't solid.

If you're going to rip apart my posts, don't discredit it without any backup other than I'm an "anti-vaxxer" I'm not; I'm someone who is thinking about a child and not following the crowd because the lovely government says so.

TIA- thanks for your post! I would like to see this too.

It seems anyone who asked questions is rejected in society!

Daily oral intake of aluminium from fruit juice, wine, beer, drinking water , many types of flour, chocolate, herbs (list goes on and this is just from ones that have actually been studied) is way higher than the amount used as a preservative in jabs.

If you are worried about your aluminium intake being above the safety level (or think the safety level is too high and are seeking to reduce to a level below that), you'd be far better off countering your exposure by changing your diet every day than looking a smaller amounts received occasionally.

Don't think they are offering it here - at least I have not been offered it.

Thanks scaevola - I already do.

It still is unnecessary, that's my point.

EssexMummy, I live in Essex and was offered it.

Scaevola, ingesting aluminium orally is different to injecting it. The digestive tract eliminates it quite quickly.

MrsHazelby - aluminium is used as an adjuvant in some vaccines.

Thanks bumbleymummy.

No wonder why parents are confused!