Back Again! Back Pain Support Thread

[PavlovtheCat]

Only right I start the new one seeing as I was responsible for the last one ending so abruptly !

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

MaizeMonkey

That's interesting what you say about 'too much relaxin'.
I had LOTS of IVF to conceive my 2 children.
Because I had a history of m/c I was told to take some hormones into the 1st 3m of pg too.
I had horrible SPD with pg 1. On crutches from 12weeks and in a wheelchair by the end. Pg 2 I 'just' stayed on crutches so the GP said 'that's progress, anyway, it'll be over soon'. Only I had SPD for about 4+ years as there is a gap of 3 years between children and it carried on for about 2 years after each birth.

I've also had the foot probs. I sympathise with you being on your feet in a kitchen as I have found I can hardly walk sometimes.
A specialist has just offered to operate for compressed nerves in both legs and feet and I am hoping this will help.
Interestingly, he says the pain can refer back up and masquerade as L5/S1 area pain.

And the verdict is.......

2 broken toes!!!

I now have 4 of my toes strapped together and was offered crutches which I've refused because last time I had crutches it absolutely crippled my back and I'd rather have toe pain

Been instructed to stay off it as much as possible and fracture clinic in a week -joy!

Oh dear, two broken toes isn't good. I broke my little toe a few years back and sorry to say it took ages to stop hurting completely. Could only wear Uggs for quite a while. lost, hope you gave him a knee in the balls then told him to stand up straight and stop being embarrassing...

I'm so annoyed. Took my sr tramadol late morning yesterday plus codeine etc later on. Couldn't sleep even with amytriptiline . Every time I closed my eyes I was getting those weird almost 'trippy' visions. I'm usually ok with tramadol now but once in a while it does that. I'm cross. Hardly slept. Funnily, though my pain was very high yesterday but better today . Do I need more hateful and weird nights?

My DH currently has plantar fasciitis (diagnosed by me ). Any good tips? He's having ibuprofen and I'm encouraging him to massage it. Now he's limping around, too. Can't have that, I need him to look after me!

17, will you need to adjust your name to 16 if you are unable to use one foot?

See, a good radiographer would have been able to spot that over the internet 17 . Time to have a proper go slow, you don't want to make everything go out of line and so much worse by hobbling about. I agree about crutches, fine if you have a perfect body everywhere else but hideous if you need to look after all the other bits too. Have a cuppa and sit down and do an internet shop.

Firstchoice that's really interesting about 'referring back up' seems counter intuitive with everything we say about the pain going away from the area of irritation but bodies are much more complex than the line diagrams of nerves could ever show.

I am a giant wooly head today, no different medicine to the last 6 days but I feel very out of it. Must be something in the air Matlida. I haven't had trippy visions for ages, I must remember that is a good thing .

PE a friend of mine had a discectomy - well 2 as the first one only worked for a year or so before a bit more disc slipped out so it had to be repeated , and she is doing well, although its not been quite 2 years since her second op.
I am continuing with my exercises but not convinced they are helping, although I have got rather worse (back and leg pain), but perhaps that is to be expected. However they are all exercises I do already, - only the repeats are different/more.

Matilda, I found a good site with exercises from the RNOH for planter faciciilitis - of course now I cannot find it!. I was lucky in that mine sort of resolved quite quickly.

Back from our trip and totally over did it - lifting kids, bending to tidy and pack, loads of walking and rides at the theme park. Unfortunately DH used me picking up a child to then not help in other ways. Argh!!! Oh and driving, even as a passenger, hurts so we got home and I gave in to some cocodamol - first of the day now the patch is really working except the over doing it pain and night times - I have a gnawing pain in the hip/SI joint area on the right.

Read so much, was it Maisie about PCOS? I have the poly cystic ovaries but not so much the hormonal thing when tested, although the cysts will remain from occasions my hormones weren't right I presume. Other symptoms like unwanted hair (laser hair removal is amazing) and acne in teens and now spot prone. Plus my weight is hard to control, I blame myself for that usually. And I do think whole body would be so much more effective. We get siloed into areas due to medical specialisms. I had a neck injury and wonder whether that could be linked and I never imagined my bladder symptoms may be caused by back problems - I even saw a consultant urologist for recurrent bladder infections which I thought had left my bladder weak.

Sorry for all the back and non back related pain. I think it's more the cold that gets to me. The warm sun beating down on my lower back is very soothing.

Still no letters or calls about this urgent referral. It's now three weeks since it started being actioned, well Friday is when it was sent by the GP so probably two weeks since the hospital received it.

I was asking DH about whether I could expect the surgeon to treat me as an equal, answer my questions and spend time explaining things so I understand - I think I'm pretty good at grasping stuff so it isn't like explaining it to a four year old! I've had some good experience recently, but mostly with the kids and not surgeons. Any insight or advice?

And nerve pain, do you find it easy to identify what is and isn't nerve pain. I'm convinced my pain, the worst anyway, is muscular due to tightness or spasm - so it aches and is mostly dull and localised not shooting pain which travels. Everyone else is telling me that this dull pain is actually nerve pain. I'm sure there is some nerve pain but amiltripiline only helps with sleep, well only if combined with cocodamol. If it does seem like nerve pain I might retry the gabapentin and ask to raise the dose much much more slowly (it was raising by 300mg every three days and I had jaw pain and my feet hurt a lot, this eased after I stopped).

Anyone had massage which helped and is it safe? One physio, before the MRI, recommended regular massage - sports type deep tissue. I just wonder if they'd refuse.

Back experts, ahoy! It's thought that I have inflammation in my sacroiliac joints and I understand how they work/their job but it's also thought I may have inflammation and wearing of the facet joints. So, are these also synovial joints? I've heard of rheumatoid arthritis in the sacroiliacs (although it's not common) but in the facet joints? What do these joints actually do? Confused.com and stile l waiting for an MRI....

Thanks in advance.

Hello candy, you sound a lot like me. So maybe don't read up the thread at my recent posts . No, sorry, I mean I am going through a rather unusual time at the moment and I don't think I am typical of anything at all, also I seem to have had this for about 20 years and have only really started getting sorted so I've let things get quite bad. Facet joints and you SI joints all have synovial fluid, so can be affected by an inflammatory arthritis, these are like RA but not the same. It's complex and I am only just getting it straight in my head. Ask anything you like and I might learn more by trying to answer. ^^ This lot up here are a more dodgy disc sort but I like them all the same . They are good for your gabapentin and amytryptylene nerve pain drugs, I am a bit of an expert on opiates/opioids and always available for dire warnings about not looking after your stomach properly when taking pain killers.

Morning all, a truly beautiful day here.

magso thanks for the foot tip! I've found the fact sheet and sent it to DH. He wasn't thrilled that it could last 18 months.

candy, hi! I don't know if this is helpful bit the one and only injection I've had that helped was into my SIJ. Maybe you can ask about it. Less successful in fact a disaster was the facet joint ones.

queen glad you've had some nice days and the patches are helping. It's another thing for me to bear in mind. Hope you hear from the hospital soon. Nhs urgent is not the same as Real World urgent, sadly.

lost you see how needed you are here? Your anatomical knowledge is required! Hope you are feeling a tiny bit better and the warm weather soothes.

Waves to everyone, have a nice day.

I have been diagnosed with a prolapsed disc but have text book symptoms of SI joint dysfunction but no diagnosis and useless doctors who just pump me full of tablets. Anyway. I am taking

Tramadol x 8
Baclofen x 6
Paracetamol x 8
Omeprazole x 1
Naproxen x 2
Gabapentin x 4 at the minute but have to increase to 9

My question is. The Gabapentin is really helping my SI pain really impressed by that having had SI pain for 16 months constantly. But I still have the back pain. Is there anything else I can take for it or should be taking?

I see my ipad is inserting multiple !!!!!! On my behalf. Please ignore.

Well the only thing I can think of would be amytriptiline at night if you are suffering pain at night. Hopefully as the gabapentin effect increases you can reduce the tramadol. That's a lot to take over such a long time. When you have full effect from gabapentin in a few weeks maybe consider a slow release tramadol? I'm finding it helpful.

Also push for a SIJ injection, as above, it's the only injection that's ever helped me. Lots of nerves run through there hence the gabapentin helping so much.

Hth

Now we need to sort your pip...

And, sorry for multi posting but you should formally request an MRI and referral to a spinal specialist.

Oh and change GP. Sounds useless.

I had an MRI after many requests to my doctor. It took
Me 7 months to get one though. That showed the prolapsed disc. As my gp kept saying it was muscular!! My GP can't read MRI scans apparently!! I was referred to the pain clinic which suggested the spinal injections which I finally had 6 months later but that didn't work. So they said they would give me a SI injection in 6 months time. But I haven't been diagnosed with SI joint dysfunction. I asked about it. Told them my symptoms and the GP just nodded.

I wil change GP but was worried that if I did my tablets wouldn't get changed over

PIP I called yesterday. Still on the assessors pile. Said it takes 6-8 weeks for a reconsideration to be sorted and it's 8 weeks now!

My pain is a lot easier upon rest. Ie laying down. It's doing anything other than laying down that makes my back worse. Sleeping is a bit better since being on the Gabapentin but still hurts to turn over in the night but only some nights

Thank you for all your help so far. It's much appreciated x

well, I saw the neurologist who confirmed that the only spine problem I have is age related wear and tear in my neck, and the rest is perfectly OK. I didn't talk to him about what I now think is pain in the SIJ (painful when I lie down on either side, but worse on that side, and pain and stiffness if I've been sitting curled up on the sofa (really bad I know ). So I'll probably carry on lurking here till I've spoken to the GP about it.

But, in the meantime as I still have numbness and pins and needles in my left arm and left leg, he's given me as trial of pregabalin which I started today (25mg a day for 7 days, 50mg after that) to see if it makes any difference. He reckoned the only side effects were possible GI problems and headaches, but the pharmacist was quite insistent I didn't drive (I didn't check if she meant ever, I was a bit gobsmacked tbh and needed to get to work, so didn't ask any more). Is that actually a thing? I see on the leaflet that they may cause drowsiness (but everything seems to cause drowsiness if you actually read the leaflets ), so presumably that is where the not driving comes from? Oh, and is alcohol a definite no no?

Also I've started taking paracetamol regularly to see if that helps with the hip pain and the sore stiffness in my arm and shoulder. I've also been referred for physio, so hopefully I'll get a better explanation of what might actually be the problem from there. Neurologist seemed quite puzzled, but felt there wasn't enough of a problem to send me to an orthopedic surgeon as they'd just want to cut open the shoulder to have a look, and that was a bit overkill for what I describe as an annoying ache. Although I do think I'm minimising the pain and discomfort, so I need to be more aware of my body I think.

Sorry for wittering about my mild aches when most of you are on serious levels of medication .

Just emailed my MP regarding the PIP. Will let you know what happens

Seeing my GP again next week. Gabapentin not lasting very long now. But don't want to up it too quickly. And back pain still there. Really need something doing and quick. It's all well and good taking 25-40 tablets every single day for the past 14 months but it's only masking the pain. It's not solving the problem. Added to that the cost of the prescriptions!

leaping the driving advice just relates to the early days when you might feel drowsy. The real draggy tiredness does wear off fairly quickly but I can still feel very sleepy if I've taken a real cocktail. So use your own judgement.

Re drinking, as you say most meds carry stern warnings. It's up to you. I do drink quite regularly sometimes it's the only thing that helps, but again alcohol does enhance the side effects so be cautious.

msdj, get you! You have become very proactive. Frankly it's the only way to be in our situation. Your prescription can certainly go with you to the new surgery. You can take your copy with you. If it's not too nosy how are you on so many tablets? I'm on tons but it doesn't even add up to 20 a day. Please feel free to ignore my nosiness. I wouldn't be surprised if a new GP wanted to investigate your problems and reduce this tbh. A good thing, perhaps to have a fresh pair of eyes to review your condition. Frankly 14 months like this is too much. Surely time for a least a surgical opinion. Lastly, did you add to your pip form for the reassessment? If not maybe you could add more info that might increase your chance of success. Pm me if you would like to see my wording. (Not that I've heard yet but she did say it was exceptional)

I'm done for. Lying on bed and no intention of ever getting up. But had a nice day. and paid someone to clean my oven.

msdj sorry just saw you listed your tabs. I actually started on 300mgs tabd and increased to 3 x 300 pretty quickly so hopefully you won't ever need 9. I have 2x300mgs 3 times a day. I rattle, too. Just not quite as much as you.

matilda not sure about proactive, just fed up now lol.

When I first started with the pain last year I was given a cocktail of tablets and over the weeks/months I have tried various ones, some days I was on as low as 25 tablets a day and other times I went just over 40. My dosset box is totally full now. I can't fit anymore in.

I did see a physio doctor lady at a private hospital, the pain clinic referred me to her for surgery. She made me feel like I was making it up. Said my pain wouldn't be corrected by surgery as it was in a different place to my disc and that if I had disc/nerve pain that my leg pain should be at the front of my leg and not my back of my leg. It is now on both sides but my GP said that I could experience pain at the back of my leg too! I get such conflicting advice from the different gps I have seen. Think I have seen about 5 at my practice and each one says something different and just gives me prescriptions for different tablets.

I really at the end of my tether now. Had enough. I can't do anything. I spend most of the day laying on my bed as that's the only way I am semi comfortable. My partner calls it my bubble. As I am safe and secure there.

I haven't added anything to my reconsideration. I didn't know I could? But I will call tomorrow if you think that's possible. I know I did wrong now by filling in the PIP forms myself. I just didn't word it right. And maybe didn't even explain how much pain and how limited I am in what I can and can't do.

Forgot to add I have just upped the Gabapentin again as I am really suffering with the nerve pain. So I had 100mg first thing. 200mg at lunch time and just had another 200mg. Doctor said that once I get to 3x100mg three times a day, then he will change my tablets to 300mg tablets

msdj I am wondering whether the SI pain is referred sciatic or other nerve pain? The SI area is close to many nerves, and the fact that the gabepentin is helping the ease that pain suggests that it is nerve pain, as gabapentin is not a painkiller itself, it deadens the nerve pain.

Once upon a time, most sciatic pain and disc related pain was diagnosed as SI dysfunction, before MRI, and then MRI came along and showed disc problems, so the emphasis has been placed on disc problems being the cause. I think sometimes it means misdiagnosis as the symptoms are so similar, that sometimes disc is the cited cause when it's the SI area, as there is suggestions that not everyone who has a prolapsed disc has pain, and the presence of a prolapsed disc clouds the SI problem, so you may well be right.

matilda of your not getting out of bed my iPad does the !!! randomly. If you see an ! in my posts in the middle of sentence, you know I am on the iPad!

msdj also, re nerve pain in the front of your legs, I only get pain the back of my legs, apart from referred pain to the front, but I can feel that's not the location. The sciatic nerve runs straight down the back of both legs, into the feet. I think it crosses to the front at the shin? I will see if I can find an anatomy link which shows what nerves cover what parts of the body from the spine. I found it really useful to take some control of my understanding, and stop relying on the often misinformation given by different hcp who perhaps have little knowledge of back problems (physios in particular).

IMO you should push to see a neurologist. They will understand that your pain may not follow the exact pattern the charts may follow. My leg pain is highly variable. Glad the gabapentin is helping, though.

pavlov had to get up to help bath the stinky dog but now back safely on my bed . Do you think our iPads just find us uncommonly witty and add the !!!!!s as a mark of their approval.