Back Again! Back Pain Support Thread

[PavlovtheCat]

Only right I start the new one seeing as I was responsible for the last one ending so abruptly !

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

queen I have to bend my knees and 'hold' myself in when I cough or sneeze! i lean on something, crouched if possible, which is not in itself easy it's quite comical when I am in the middle of an aisle at work or supermarket and I suddenly move to grab hold of something, my myself and sneeze as gently as I can, then stop still in whatever position I am inn as the muscles spasm and then ease! .

Yes to the left leg pain, I had some mild sciatica in my right leg, started off in the right leg, relatively bearable (well, it would be now, was less so at the time!), and it moved swiftly from bearable in right to horrific in the left following some fabulous not advice from a physio suggesting I need to do cobra, and fight against the pain and stiffness that it would produce as otherwise I would not stand straight again. It shifted the prolapse from central/right to central/left, significantly. Obviously now one will tell me thats what happened, but coincidentally it happened almost as soon as I did those exercises. I did continue to have some right leg pain, but it was minor in comparison. I now have largely right leg pain and perhaps that is residual that i didn't pay attention to as masked by the left leg pain (pain, numbness on my toes/calf, pins and needs up the whole leg, sometimes loss of sensation/fuzzing/numbness of the whole left leg).

I do find myself still seeking some answers, but really, I just to find ways to manage, as much as a 'title' of diagnosis would be better, and ease me a little, I suspect it won't happen now. It's becoming less important to me. It's been 3.5 yrs since I first had serious back and leg pain that stopped me moving at al, 2.5 years since it 'went' so badly that it never recovered.

I think you might be right about the junior, maybe she is more green around the ears, and perhaps not jaded yet and still keen to help!

I say mild sciatica, actually it was not mild, I just didn't know it was sciatica for a while and it was 'managed' by me walking with a stoop/bent forward. I could stand up straight, as it hurt back and legs, and after not very long, I simply could not get upright, my muscles would simply not move in that direction (hence the insistence of the physio to do the cobra exercises).

I have loss of lordosis. well, i did, don't know now. I have damaged end plates, but don't really know what that means, other than I think damaged end plates can cause pain in themselves. One or two other things I can't remember from my initial MRI. I would see if I can find the thread on MN about it, but I had so many I could be a while!

Yes I was crouching just earlier while tidying the bathroom. I'm sure I read sneezing can cause disc herniations. My first one at 16 was just bending to pick up a pen, although I suspect there was some activity going on to aggravate it before that ;) I never admitted that to a dr or physio, in fact my Dad came with me to those physio appointments.

One physio I spoke to did say that flexing the spine slightly while walking may help, so that's why bending forward is more comfortable, taking pressure off the spine. Exercise in water keeps being mentioned too, build up weak muscles without the impact.

Anyone have a cleaner? I presume no one else is trying to vacuum etc. I really want one as DH is rubbish. I also want lots of other things. Like a new kitchen and I was sent a preview sale email from selfridges this morning, 50% off a £400 dress is still not a bargain and silly when I have small children and moths with a taste for expensive clothing. I think I cried when watching the documentary about Liberties because I'm too sore to go shopping. And we are poor right now anyway due to HMRC taking too much money. In fact I have to check whether I need to transfer some of our savings to make up the shortfall. Over £100 to spend on massage and physio next week and I need a hair cut - it's been 2 yrs. I will have to load up on drugs to endure sitting so long.

I wouldn't have another injection either, pav. I'm not really hearing anyone saying they're amazingly effective anyway, & there seems to be very little evidence for longer term pain relief with them.

This added risk - even if it's tiny - is frightening, especially when people are told - as I was, categorically - that there are NO side-effects at all. It does sound like the adhesive changes with arachnoiditis that are visible on MRI may happen some way down the line - with earlier pain / nerve symptoms - so it's also bloody difficult, by the sounds of it, to identify a simple cause.

Queen, we are thinking of getting a cleaner! I'm embarrassed to admit it because I hardly work anyway - only a few hours teaching - & my kids are at school. But despite buying a new, lighter vacuum cleaner, & DH doing loads at weekends, it's becoming a struggle. So I've got a woman who runs a local agency coming round to discuss it on Monday. We could only afford a few hours a fortnight, we think, rather than weekly, but it would be great. It's enough of a struggle doing the cooking, really, as standing still is a killer for me.

Do you have a moths problem? Slightly off the topic of backs, I know, but I have a wardrobe full of cashmere & so have developed a paranoid terror & loathing towards moths. I have loads of those hanging repellent units & an incredibly toxic spray that I can only spray when DH is out (asthma) & the kids are at school! My lungs can take the hit if it's going to save my knitwear.

On the subject of shopping, I dragged DH & the boys to a designer Outlet near York on Thursday. Was in agony all day - took lots of codeine, washed down with prosecco at lunchtime, which did help - but ended up finding not a single thing for myself. The boys got Gap jeans & T shirts, DH got some Levis, & I found not a single bastard thing. Think I prefer internet shopping these days!

Yeah I'm home full time with one in school nursery and we pay out for two days for the two year old. DD1 was in nursery from about 17 months for two days and I didn't even have back problems, well nothing like this but it was a big help in pregnancy and with a new born.

I was also thinking of every other week and really it's the deeper cleaning stuff - the edges, the bath, the grouting between tiles (bloody lime scale) and so on. We still need to vacuum, mop and clean surfaces once a week I suspect. I'd be tempted by a robot vacuum if we weren't in so often - the kids would kill it.

The moths aren't so bad since DH got out his electric fly swotting thing - like a small electrified tennis racquet. They ate the cashmere jumper I bought him so a silk dress would be a disaster. I'm sure they get in the bathroom window as it's often left open and more often seen there. DH kills them and leaves the brown smear on the walls and ceiling. No surprise his cleaning standards as some way short of mine!

I went to Bicester some months back and was very disappointed. I watched a documentary about how the outlet stuff is inferior and made to be cheaper, same with TK Maxx stuff - it's probably still on 4OD. I got some boots from Clarks. If you sign up to Harrods and Selfridges the preview sales are fab, better than the actual sales as it isn't the crap left over no one wanted. Not that I'm allowed really. I'll stick to H&M and M&S until the kids are older or I get to be a proper grown up in an office again.

I'm having a sore day and have a headache. I need to look up these injections more (so I can say no) and the risks of surgery to prepare for the appointment. If the NHS says no to surgery do you think it's more likely going private will agree to it? I need to do more research but if surgery does seem to be the answer and it's just budgetary restraints stopping it happening I think it's worth it. I've always said it would be worth all our savings and even the house to get better. In fact my mum may contribute if I ask and the price seems much cheaper up north with a private hospital very close to where she lives. And I can stay there the first two weeks so I'm not risking my recover by being attacked by the kids.

Oh God, Queen, DH would love an electric fly swatter. He takes an almost indecent pleasure in going after flying insects (like the cat). Interesting about the Outlet stuff being inferior, too - DH has always maintained this since buying some Clarks shoes from there years ago which turned out to be crap. He then had an embarrassing argument in a normal Clarks store with a shop assistant who was insisting that it was all "real" stock & not specially made for Outlet!

Sorry you're having a sore day. I do think it's unlikely that your consultant won't suggest discectomy as an option on the NHS, given the findings of your scan. My prolapse isn't central - the disc bulges at the back sides (both sides), causing narrowing of both lateral recesses - so it's the S1 nerve roots that are specifically affected & I'm not at significant risk of CE: yet I was still given microdiscectomy as an option at my consultation. I wouldn't be too ready to say you're prepared to go privately, even if you are. You've a right to demand proper treatment on the NHS first.

I guess surgery is still more risky than injections overall, so I don't necessarily regret trying an injection first, but I find it disturbing that nothing is said (or at least wasn't in my case) about ANY side-effects. And some temporary worsening / soreness is very common, but they didn't even mention that. I also had a flush that lasted hours after my injection - thought I was having a rosacea flare but my rosacea has been calm for ages. Then read that that's very common after having a steroid injection as there are inevitably some systemic effects.

hiya, hope all are enjoying a lazy sunday - sunny-ish and feeling very summery.
Slightly walking wounded here today- am extra achey today and this is probably combo of rolling onto my back while asleep, and having had sex last night which always makes the next day painful. Sorry if tmi but it made me wonder if that means it is more a nerve thing than muscles for that reason. hmm we are all pushed to be little detectives aren't we? anyway rather this reason than coz i strained myself doing too much housework!
Loon your doc offered pregablin before gabapentin, that might be good since most always stert with the less ££ one first. I have found the gabapentin quite effective, it might be worth trying as you have such ongoing pain- I foind codeine very helpful at the beginning but got tolerant to it and once at the top dose there's nowher left to go. all drugs are like this but gaba and pregab have a large margin between highest and lowest dose so more flexibility on increasing. mull it over
Queen - so we both have a school starter in sept, my dh is a bit sad about him being out at school all day, he will miss him as he is the main person at home although it is more split lately due to not working for me and him having filmiming projects outside the home, I have always gone out more anyway and he is more a home body- so hell notice it more. I think with support he will love it- he needs alot of exercise of body and mind to feel happy. I am assuming your dd is talking a bit? do you have any people supporting you with the extra needs at home like Parant Partnership/ other? DS is doing tracing numbers and letters ech day as homework, his keyworker thinks he will be close to writing by the time he strts school. so he may write before he talks! luckily this world now it is not all that vip to talk, you can use writing for all communication if you so wish, eg via emails, internet, texts etc.
Would you go back to Archaeology or do a diff subject if you went back to study? I will miss the routine of lessons over the summer actually, I have kept out a few books from the library to read- couple on consciousness which is a fascinating area. I also find I am much more sleepy from the drugs- or is it the tiring effect of constant low level pain? that is quite sleepyfying and bit depressing too. small things do seem a bit of a mission lately- like when you are stoned i guess. I may reduce my dose of gaba a bit when i'm further along- still trying to get rid of codeine and had to take some first thing today as i was alot more achey, than usual. but otherwise this week had a couple days not taking it at all.
Have turned a corner a bit on relying on something to try to have time pain-free- this week more accepting of having some in the background and putting up with it

so sorry to hear you are having a bd day queen- is dh at home to help out and give you some lying down time.
I had to load up on codine to get through this am as we were up very late not just having marital fun but then afterwards ds was waking a few tmes and was upset- not sure why, he has a nightime waking thing and even when he went to sleep he keeps making noises/ vocalisations so i dont know what time i was aslpeep properly- about 4. so dh got up with them at 6, i got a lie in which was lovely, but he had to go back to sleep of course when i got up so it was hit-the-ground-running once i was up, as they are quite demanding at the mo. at least we have the freedom to tag team like this when he has a bad night. think maybe he had toothache or similar type thing so we gave him some calpol, good old calpol. So hard to know what is up when they dont talk

so sorry to hear you are having a bd day queen- is dh at home to help out and give you some lying down time.
I had to load up on codine to get through this am as we were up very late not just having marital fun but then afterwards ds was waking a few tmes and was upset- not sure why, he has a nightime waking thing and even when he went to sleep he keeps making noises/ vocalisations so i dont know what time i was aslpeep properly- about 4. so dh got up with them at 6, i got a lie in which was lovely, but he had to go back to sleep of course when i got up so it was hit-the-ground-running once i was up, as they are quite demanding at the mo. at least we have the freedom to tag team like this when he has a bad night. think maybe he had toothache or similar type thing so we gave him some calpol, good old calpol. So hard to know what is up when they dont talk

and your higher up your back ache that came on this week matilda, what a bloody pain, you dont need any new pains, have you had it that high up before? hope you are also getting some lying down time to help get back to a kind of equilibrium , big unmumsnetty hugs to all of you having pain (((((((((()))))))))
my mum is on the list to have first consult for a hip replacement now. Her issues have suddenly got alot worse last few weeks and then even more so last few days. she had a slipped disc and mostly successful op on it about 5 yrs ago but has arthritus in a few areas and always had pain since a long time of varying degrees. I think although its a huge thing to have- it will give her a new lease of life hopefuly. So I am having mine and dd"s birthday party at hers because there is no way she could be in a car for over an hour at the mo, just half an hour is causing alot of pain. It is a nice house anyway and I can make the cake for dd there the day before, which is a saturday and we can watch ascot on telly while i do it, so sorted.
I don't have a great many of friends anyway, so it'll be a mostly family thing- which is what i wanted anyway, all of us 4 sisiters get on really well and enjoy family gatherings- particularly if some of us have been busy with stuff and not seen each other for a while.
Apart from the back thing this is an opportunity to enjoy summer that i havent had for years- either was working as a chef all hours, or was pg, so it should be good

DH has taken the kids to the supermarket so I'm getting plenty of rest, especially as the girls pretty much left me to lie down the whole time DH was out - playing piano at church.

Yeah DD1 is starting school but she is just highly strung and very active. She talks but getting her to sit and do a structured activity is difficult. I'm told she's normal as I wondered about ADHD after comments from nursery and swimming. She just doesn't want to sit still. DD2 is so much calmer, even from being a newborn the difference is huge. I'm more worried about how my inability to interact with her is affecting her. I'm not cut out for being at home. It's accountancy I need to finish studying. I have a few options to look at but working even once the kids are in school is a difficult juggling act. Teaching is another option and working school hours (and then into the evening I'm told) and school terms would be helpful. But I'm so far from able to think about it, the world has stopped until my neurosurgery appointment, just like it did with the pain clinic one before that.

I tend to find I'm ok with bedroom activity but it's just getting the pain down enough to get in the mood. Muscle tightness can be a nerve thing as well as pain. All my muscles are tight round my pelvis and thighs, even my pelvic floor - that can cause pain internally. I saw a physio who specialises in this and I had to stop pelvic floor exercises and do gentle breathing down to relax it. Who knows whether it's the disc or some pregnancy/birth issue.

I hope you have a better night with DS tonight Maizie and you mum is ok. It's such a shame they make us wait for surgery so long. Hopefully your mum will have a much better quality of life once it's done. I read discectomies are much less successful if surgery is delayed over a year :(

Sadly having a bad pain few days here and have a ton of stuff to do. No food in and aunt arriving tomorrow for a week. Self invited. So have to make up the bed and move all my stuff from the spare room. Spare rooms are a liability. Everyone wants to come and stay and I find it difficult.

Yes, I have a couple of sisters who clean for me every week. Also a gardener weekly and take dhs shirts to be washed and ironed at the local dry cleaners. So I am officially the laziest.

I have a lightweight GThech hoover thing which is brilliant for a quick floor sweep. Also got a fab new mop this week with built in spray.Addis I recommend both. I am both lazy and sadly dull. But when at home a lot I notice any dirt much more.

On I must get up and buy some food. Wish me luck.

Oh and tomorrow I have a two hour psychological assessment for my legal case. Looking forward to that. Not.

Oh and re sneezing, I had whooping cough when my disc went. Don't think that was a coincidence.

good luck with getting the food matilda! xx

queen i know what it's like to feel bad you can't be "the same mum" all the time if you have a bad pain day, cant do certain things. rationally i know these arnt the only things that are important, they probably dont notice as much as we do, but it doesnt stop you feeling a bit guilty. But you can compensate in other ways, doing things you can do, or just with them on their own sometimes to make it a bit more special. even just reading a book with them can be very bonding. dd is alot more demanding, so she will get what she needs by other ways. ds is not assertive, imndependant, bit shy, and like you i worry more about our interaction.
I think my mum has to wait about 8 weeks for the appt, then another 6-8 for the op, it is long when it is bad but i think alot of people are in this situation. and she is not great at really not doing things she doent have to do- i have inherited that too
queen you have a lot of pelvic pain, it sonds a bit like the pg-related spd/pgp i had too- did they ever make sure that wasnt a factor?

maizie my DMIL had two hip ops about 18 months ago, she is in US and had them done in really quick succession. She had always been active, climbed Mount Kilimanjaro when she was 74 (on her own steam, with guides she hired there, not pre-booked mad as a hatter) and walked everywhere, did step and aerobics classes etc. Then we saw her just before her hip op and she was in so much pain and her mobility was awful. We then saw her again 7 months later, and she was back to normal again! She took a little bit of time to get over the surgery itself, I think her age took it's toll despite good general health, but she was up and moving very very quickly once she recovered from the surgical element, and then a couple of months after had the other one done, and she is largely, aged 80 back to speed with her health, but minus the aerobics class, was told not to do that. She does a little less walking, and walks a little more stiffly these days but I think that's because she is 80, not because she has had the hip op! Fingers crossed your DM gets a new lease of life too, horrible to be left so long when there is surgery that can be done to help.

I hurt! It's my own fault. We are getting a new kitchen table on Tuesday and so a friend took the old one as a workbench. I took the opportunity to clean the radiator and wall and floor that was hidden. OMG, it was disgusting, and once I cleaned a patch, I had to do the whole wall, and the whole radiator including in between the little slats, the woodwork then looked dirty, then the cooker and fridge, and the cat flap on the back door, wow, it all had to be cleaned. With bleach. It is now lovely and clean ready for our new white table. but needs a new coat of paint of 10. Still felt reasonable, seeing as I have been On A Roll with this reduced pain malarky. Followed by trip to local mini park festival near us, met some friends, DD had a friend with us, DH had to work so I had two 7 year old excited girls and one 4.5 year old boy who wanted to keep up, plus our friends had children and I could hardly keep up! By the time I got home, I had pretty much seized up entirely and now I hurt through my buttocks in particular, down my legs, and my feet are bright red and swollen. So, I am in bed with a hottie firmly attached to my back, have taken 45mg of codeine, plus the usual and am hoping I have not just fucked myself up one and truly. Hoping it's just muscular as they are not used to working so hard.

I have never been a good dancer, but I have always like d a little jig to music at festivals, and I got the children up near the front of a band my friend plays in, to have a dance, and I just can't dance, there is no movement that I can do that is not painful, I can't tap my right leg as it hurts, can't tap my left leg as I have no rhythm in that leg, and my hips would not/could not wiggle. I felt quite sad! How are my children going to get up and dance when mummy doesn't do it?

matilda Sorry you are in so much pain and at your self invited guests! I hope that works out reasonably ish and she is not too demanding of you. And you are not lazy. You accept what you can and can't do and have support where you can. That's wise. DH and I often talk about a cleaner, and today's yuck fest in the kitchen has made us realise that we need one. Not for weekly cleaning, but as someone mentioned earlier, to help with the deep cleaning. It would make a huge difference if we had someone to do the tiles, cooker, hard floors, cupboard doors, skirting, bath edges, windows etc thoroughly every two weeks, then we can keep on top of it over the two weeks. Oh and to fold up any washing from the tumble drier for us to put in the right drawers etc would be amazing as we always have tons of it to put away! I have a thing about boxes, love them, and so I have decided to have several dotted around the house to become 'crap boxes' that we can tidy things into - I also dislike things on the floor, it not neat and I trip over it, the place looks tidier if things are off the floor even if not tidy anywhere else - and one in the bathroom for clean towels, one for dirty towels etc. DH is like this at the idea, but I think it will make it easier for a cleaner, as if we have not been fabulous as clearing things away, she can just dump it into the boxes lying around and we can sort it out or ignore it then throw it all away in a year.

I have, in fact, just absolutely talked myself into it

'scuse my typos there.

Matalan do fantastic boxes, I got a load of fabric covered ones for shoe storage. I've got three men with size 10 feet and a LOT of great big shoes lying around. My boxes have solved that. Apart from the fact that they all still leave said shoes lying around so I have to bend over to pick them up. I'm kind of resigned to them not thinking.

My aunt is very nice and good, easy company. She likes to come up to London from Devon for a few exhibitions and see friends. I just could do without it. Just scrubbed the kitchen and finished the ironing so she arrives to a serene house with no idea what it cost me.

Sorry to be moany, hope you all had a nice weekend. Taking dcs to a music gig sounds brilliant.

You should not be scrubbing kitchens. Especially when your pain is high.

My DDs friend, not sure she knew what to make of it, it's a park festival full of crusty old hippies and cool music, she is from a family who are more 'pop music and fashion' oriented than we are. A bit of different culture for her though! It's great because I see a lot of old friends I just don't see any more, different circles now, different lives, but there, I bump into them most years! And, the odd colleague and a good few clients shows them I am human at least Unfortunately, our 'almost famous' local band Maddog McCrae played yesterday. They are the local successful band, playing Irish music which must be danced to. We used to watch them all the time, vaguely know them to say hi to and we missed them as thought they were playing today. Shame. Although, probably a good job as I couldn't dance like I used to when i used to get pissed and be one of the ones at the front dancing badly with a beer in my hand

Do you know, I am not sure I have ever been into Matalan! Not through any deliberate intent, there is just not one convenient to us. I don't know where our local one is even!

I also struggle with shoes around the house, near the shoe ottoman, but not in it, random single shoes found in various locations but never with the other one, etc, despite having a box purely for them. But, no size 10s in this house, they need a box all to themselves don't they ?

I have 2 bags that i tidy shoes into by my working desk by the front door. I used to have an old salad draw from a previous fridge that we christened " the box of things that it is very annoying if you cannot find" and it usually contained my pill, various menus from indians nearby, bits of techy leads for the tv etc, tha tv remotes, and alot else of very varied nature! I throw all the kids clothes down the stairs each evening and then chuck them in the washing basket by the washer
I have systems but they are chaotic compared to others' i think.
I diff areas for if clothes have been worn a bit but aren't actually dirty, what is the norm i wonder. usually it's put them on the wooden bit at the top oft the stairs and try to wear them again soon.
also, while interested, does everyone have some only in house clothes? for well loved clothes that look a bit forlorn but you dont want to part with? or is it just me? hehe
thanks for the info about your rel's hip op, I am very hopeful for her. and i wouldnt be surprised if i had to have one further down the line- hopefully they'll be growing them in a petri dish by then
I am water only until the am at 8.40 as i am having a blood test for few bits and pieces- really want a cuppa! arghhh, i will come back to home at 9ish and have 3 in a row !

I have a 'space' by the bed floordrobe for those clothes that have been worn but are actually still clean enough to wear again but can't be put back in with Real Clean clothes. I am amazed you had a 'salad' box of crap that needs to located at any given time. I have boxes and boxes of those, they just get filled with shit then I can't ever find what I want. We also have Cupboards of Doom. You know those cupboards where you don't want to open them to look for something really important right at the back as the whole carefully packed pile of crap falls on top of you and then you realise that item is not in that Cupboard of Doom, but the other one. Or, is that me? I have systems that are probably not simple, but it makes no difference, DH has no systems at all, and won't follow any that I have! The children take their clothes off wherever they happen to be when I ask them to get their jimjams on, their dressers are in the hallway, but they can be anywhere when they strip naked. Another reason to have random boxes, some of the can be clothes boxes. But, they can also look pretty!

I have some clothes for indoors only yes. 'comfy' clothes that feel lovely and look shocking on, old or worn or whatever, I rarely where 'normal' clothes indoors, I change into my chilling stuff. But I have on occasion put big boots on, my long parker coat and done the school run wearing the old tatty comfy stuff also did that once or twice in my jimjams and DH was horrified when I told him but none noticed as I had wellie boots due to rain and a parker with the hood down and zipped to my chin when no-one can see, usually when I have felt shit pain wise and not been able to get myself dressed properly. I am, however, not a style queen, that's for sure.

and bits of techy leads? We have two boxes of leads, cables, plugs to this and that, chargers, wires, electrical shit that DH will not be parted from "in case we ever need the 5 year old phone charger that doesn't fit anything it"

I would love a salad drawer full of techy bits