Back Again! Back Pain Support Thread

[PavlovtheCat]

Only right I start the new one seeing as I was responsible for the last one ending so abruptly !

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

Just reading the last few posts about side effects of Gabapentin. I started taking them on Friday. 100mg three times a day, working my way up to 300mg three times a day. I saw on google the huge lists of side effects. But which are the common ones that you have had whilst taking this drug and did they appear at the start or the more you took?

msdj they do vary from person to person, but for me they were - tiredness, drowsiness, slowness of speech, brain fog feeling where I could not remember words/sentences easily, put things in the fridge that lived in the cupboard and vice versa, generally felt groggy when I first woke up/hungover feeling. I got the grogginess almost straight away, and the slowness of speech, but the other stuff happened probably after a few days of taking it.

Normally, after a while (again it varies, i was told up to 6 weeks, and as such was given 4 weeks off work just to adjust to gabapentin and amitryptline each time, but can be as little as 2-3 weeks) those side effects should wear off, although each time you titrate upwards (take an increase in dose) those side effects may increase a little for a short while. That is why you can't just take the dose you are working towards straight away, as it will floor you. If you are finding the side effects too much, you can slow down the speed you titrate upwards, stay on a lower dose for a little longer, and increase by smaller amounts (if you don't have that quantity in the medicine dose you were given, ask your GP for a lower top up dose). It's a fine line between getting the right amount of meds to effectively manage the pain and getting the side effects to a bearable level.

Unfortunately for me, I am super sensitive to the nerve blocking meds and although found them helpful (amitryptiline in particular) I could not manage the side effects well enough to stay on them and keep working. but that's not the same for everyone. There are others on here that can give you their experiences.

Thanks for the updates everyone. I have tried Tramadol but felt like I was on the moon! Will discuss with my GP this week and see if I can get something else. (have tried codeine before but it causes other issues so not keen on that) Although, at the moment I think I'd take anything if it gave me a pain free moment.
I'm also much better walking than sitting but can't do much work if I walk round the office for 10 hours!
Will read back through this thread now - may be a while!

That's interesting about the facet joint injections - I assumed they were straight into the joint; though I guess that's a pretty stupid assumption on reflection, as injecting bone wouldn't achieve much. Hmmm - not at my quickest today.

Well, I'll take your 45mg of codeine & raise you 15mg, pavlov, 'cause I took 60mg in one dose while trying to sit in Cafe Nero this lunchtime. Am in so much pain - wish I'd never had this fucking nerve block injection. No zen-like calm here, that's for sure. I was fully prepared psychologically for it not to work, but not for this - pain along the whole length of the nerve that I can feel the whole time. Normally it's concentrated in a specific place, or maybe two points along the pathway, with the odd very transitory shooting pain - never like this. Very pissed off indeed.

I would say, reading back how many you are taking, that you are taking quite a lot in one day. Usually, it's taken at night time do manage the sleepiness/groggy side effects. I would slowly slowly slowly increase when you are ready/as guided by the gp (but bear in mind they often have no fucking clue about the side effects and just say 'oh yes, take these high doses, titrate upwards within the week' and that's bollocks, it is too fast), and add one additional 100mg to just one of those x 3 and see how that helps/side effects before adding another 100mg to any other x 3, or more to that x 3. And add that one at night time.

pavlov, I'd like to suggest that your post about drug combining should be added to the opening post because it's fab advice! repeated about 100 times throughout the thread. Sorry your pain is bad but good that you had a good day.

We hosted a big dinner party last night. Such fun, thought I'd be terrible today but actually I think the true payback will be tomorrow. I have a 48 hour lag time for pain payback after big events.

Facet joint injections didn't help me, sadly. I've had so many now I feel like I can't face any more.

msdj gabapentin is good for nerve pain and it sounds like you are already getting benefit. You don't have to increase the dose if you are finding it helpful. As for side effects of course most don't happen to most people. It makes me a bit sleepy sometimes and a bit dry mouthed. I was quite scared when I started as it seemed a pretty heavy duty drug but actually it's fine. And it works. It takes a while to build the levels up so you probably aren't even getting maximum benefit yet.

To the poster with a new prolapse and working. Can I suggest a period off sick? I wish so much with hindsight I'd simply rested completely in the first few weeks. I do think I might have even avoided the surgery that ended up ruining my life. Disc prolapse is a serious condition.

spring that 'on the moon' feeling is normal, and passes. How long did you take it for? You have to expect a few days of weirdness on opiates but once they pass (few days max for the worst of it to ease) then you will not feel the effects so much. Most of us here that take them, get little 'buzz' any more. Oh I would so like to have that 'floaty' feeling again but nope. Definitely talk to your GP though, you absolutely need something more than you are on now.

loon I was a little scared of taking 60mg, as I got to get up for work early tomorrow and thought that additional 15mg just seemed too much, but knew 30mg was not enough. So sorry you are huge pain though and needed 60mg. That sucks. Not surprised you are pissed off

spring oh god it didn't even register that you were working, I read it, understood it, but it didn't register that you shouldn't even be working! matilda is right. If you can possibly, possibly get some time off work, take at least 2 weeks, and rest (laying flat/semi supine).

loon, I was exactly the same after my medial nerve blocks a few weeks ago. Never, ever again. The left side of my back was ok but the right side went mad and it was like nerves were firing off at all angles. It was horrid and lasted about a week.

Hate to say that these injections which we crave, hoping against all odds they will help, are actually not much use at all. The problem is that there is a very good reason that pain clinics employ more psychologists than doctors; they simply don't have much to offer that works. I'm kind of resigned to a life that includes a lot of strong dugs that are probably not doing me much good.

spring tramadol did give me totally stoned effect. It does decrease although the analgesic effects continue. I have a love hate relationship with Trammy tbh. As pavlov says! you need a lot more meds and a lot more rest. Like you, sitting is agony. Listen to your pain. It is speaking to you.

matilda my post re drug combinations could do with a bit of editing I just it back and at it! shocking.

I hope your payback tomorrow is not too bad. I saw your late night/early morning post, glad it was a good night. I love dinner parties!

I wonder if my own pain increase this evening is due to going for a wet stompy walk at Cadover Bridge on Dartmoor. It involved a little bit of navigating and using my stick as a walking stick (a beautiful walk but not a straight path), As well as the usual pain, my thighs hurt at the front, muscular, really badly, one side in particular, which is odd as due to a big fucking it down of rain, we didn't actually walk much at all, but I am probably very unfit. We spent more time in the pub eating our sardines and chips after!

Strangely though, my muscles don't seem to spasm horrendously as the base of my spine any more, they are swollen sometimes (get a raised swollen bit around my l5/s1 disc) but they don't go solid as much as they used to and I can bend ok. I find the muscle problems are mid/upper back now when I get more pain, and for example now my neck/shoulder muscles are solid, my deep spine hurts, and butt/thighs/hips/legs are on fire, but despite the swelling, the surface muscles are not too bad. Does that mean I have truly knackered the muscles in my lumbar spine now? as there is pain, but it's not hard muscle spams that used to stop me standing upright (used to walk at almost right angles as I simply could not get upright). Strange, our bodies.

Sounds as if you need regular expert massage. It great for all that weird muscular stuff. I had to sit a lot last week getting all those reports done and my upper back was agony. As my physio reminds me, your back is all one piece. It's complex, complicated and all connected.

And yes to lovely walks. Good for the soul if not the back. Sardines and chips sound good. I think you asked me ages ago if I've been to the Oyster Shack? The answer is yes, we love it. If I could get to Devon easily I'd be there in a flash. Sunny day, Bantham estuary with the dog and a disposable BBQ. Bliss.

Well, that's kind of comforting that your extra post-injection pain went off again, matilda, though a bit depressing that the bastard things don't seem to work very well.

Struggling with the idea of how to weigh up risks/ make decisions about all this. I've been very variable, but not normal & in pain for a year now. And that's while taking lots of drugs. Am most concerned about long-term use of NSAIDs (& was delighted to read the other day that using omeaprazole long -term is associated with increased risk of strokes). Also feel my life is very restricted.

OTOH am terrified of surgery. I do know people who've had microdiscectomy & done well & got back to normal. But obviously the possibility of making it worse is frightening. Have been doing gentle back exercises, core exercises, walking for most of the past year & that's not making any significant difference. Physio made things a bit worse.

I knows ome people seem to recover from prolapse even at this stage, but it doesn't sound like the numbers are high there either. The consultant I saw was very non-directive - showed me the MRI images, pointed out the prolapse & nerve compression, said these are your options. But how the fuck are you supposed to decide, especially when you have periods of okay-ish quality of life - as long as you take shitloads of drugs.

(I just re-read that I can bend ok. HA! That sounds like I can touch my toes or something. I can bend about 5cm forward, nothing back, but I guess I mean I am not rigid with muscle spasms, but suspect you lot don't think it means I am doing gymnastics at home these days )

Ah, The Oyster Shack. Wine. Fish Pie. Did I tell you DD ate a whole seaside bucket of mussels there? they do children's 1lb (or whatever weight it is) of mussels, without the wine. She shared one with DH. That was all.

I didn't mean solid why did I put her name down ? I am going to blame the codeine. I was talking about you my lovely or. I am going bananas.

Hello, heloooo, how are you all? Sorry I fell off the thread but I had friends who were on MN staying, then went to stay with a friend who is also on MN. We all know each other's NN's so I didn't think it would have been fair if they caught me going ' fuuuuuck, ow, ow, ow,' when I was doing stuff with them. IYSWIM? Anyway, it turns out a week of trying to live at 75% normal human speed is crippling. Between that and H just not being capable of being nice for 5 minutes I have flipped into what must be my first bona fide, officially recognised 'flare up' so I greet you all on a cocktail of steroids, morphine, tramadol, even more omeprazole than normal and other bits and bobs which I have thankfully written down because I can't remember. I have blood tests and other, umm, we'll just leave it at a different type of sample being looked at for now, organised for next week, my GP is being brilliant anyway. I am trying to hunker down and just get a bit better but DS1 managed to break his hand so have lots of driving to do to get him to clinic as well. So that's all fun. I will try and catch up now but my brain is a little uncoupled with steroids making me a bit manic and morphine being a bit distracting to say the least. I have fully embraced red lipstick as an 'I'm fine' technique and may have to buy a new handbag soon as well.

losty !!!! we missed you! So sorry you have had such a fucking shite flare-up oh no! what a mix of drugs! are they helping at all? At least you had some good times with some friends, but what a shit that you have to suffer to be able to do that. Won't expect you to spill the beans on their houseguest/hostess habits but hope they looked after you well.

Glad to have you back, even if your brain is fried.

Quick read through and spring it took me about three weeks to feel fully functional on tramadol but once I was through that I got the pain relief with only occasional moments of 'spaced' head.

Can't remember who was talking about facet joint injections but in my professional head the liquid mix of steroid and local goes into the joint space around the affected joint and calms the nerves, rather than going into the bone. As for irritating the nerve instead, well that just sounds like a right bastard and par for the course in our Stupid Backs life. Bastards.

I had a brilliant time with my friends Pavlov! It was great to live life just sucks that for people like us there is always a price to be paid after. Although getting to rock bottom and spelling put just how much pain I am in and how ill I am with it, whilst horrible to live with, it has made me finally lie awake in pain vowing to really make a fuss and let the GP know how awful I am feeling, how much my life is compromised at the moment and he has really stepped up and listened to me and taken me seriously. The steroids are almost diagnostic as well as a treatment because if/when they work it will show properly that this is a disease rather than mechanical. I think. He is writing to my rheumy to get me see again ASAP at least. I nearly cried because he said a lot of thoughtful stuff, which I wasn't expecting from him anyway.

So, I will type more tomorrow, morphine kicking in for the night, it's certainly interesting takes me an age to type properly. Cannot think why on earth anyone would want to be like this for fun, do NOT like being so wooly of head!

Hi all,
It's lovely to 'meet' you all, but sad that it has to be in these circumstances.
I am new to this thread, but have been suffering back pain for years and years. I first saw an osteopath when I was 14, for a few sessions after 'putting my back out' twisting to get the loo roll off the cistern!

Have had various episodes of pain in the intervening 23 years but this current episode has been going on for 4.5years now.

I finally went to the gp about 20 months ago, and have gone from pillar to post via podiatry, physio, blood tests for arthritis factor, acupuncture, physio again, finally had an mri in sept last yr. It showed a prolapsed disc between L4 &L5. I was referred to a surgeon, but due to there being no suitable surgeon in our local nhs hospital, I have seen a private one funded by nhs. He suggested a discectomy. Due to my wavering about having an op, I have postponed it twice and am booked to have it done on 24th May.

I am petrified about it. I keep starting to get my head around it and then start to doubt it again. Initially my pain was severe sciatica and muscle spasms, it was at its height about 3.5 yrs ago. I was five stone lighter then! The pain has varied over the years and I have had periods of being so stiff in the mornings I couldn't wipe my backside, my feet, toes and ankles didn't bend where they should have, had to walk without bending even my knees.

Currently my sciatica is quite mild but lower/middle back pain is high. I manage this using naproxen and Cocodamol on bad days with good effect. Some weeks i only need to take them once, others I may take them 4 days in a row, but the effect seems to last the next day or two. I have definitely altered my life to manage pain. I have stopped my beloved sport, that I was actually quite good at. I don't hoover, push a supermarket trolley etc. I don't walk the kids to the park or anywhere if I can get away with it. We drive everywhere, but journeys longer than 30 mins hurt. And some times even pressing the clutch has had me in tears.

As a lone working parent to 3, obviously I need to be able to do normal things. I am only mid thirties but feel 80.

I am so confused as my pain has changed so much over the 4.5 yr. Esp the last 6 months. I don't know if that is because I had more physio in an attempt to avoid surgery, or because I have adapted my life to minimise pain. I also think I have a very high pain threshold. I gave birth to 2 of my babies with no pain relief. And walked around with a broken ankle for a week before going to a gp, I only went to shut my friend up who was hassling me.

Does anyone have any advice esp positive stories about discectomy. I really want to believe that once recovered i will be able to rebuild my core strength and do normal things again. I need to believe it is possible. But so many on this thread don't seem to have had that result. I wonder if this is because those who have had success may not come to a thread such as this, and it therefore a bit biased.

From what you are all describing i am not sure that i amcurrently as bad as some of you, so how come I am going straight for the op, no injections etc. The surgeon did say he can already see wear on tear from the prolapse on another part of my spine, and if I didn't have it done I would be an old woman before my time. I responded by saying I already felt like an old woman.

I am really sorry for whittling on, I didn't intend saying all this when I started my post, It has just come pouring out. I guess I feel, that if anyone will understand, you guys will. I have some very supportive friends but I don't think they quite get it.

PE - I'm in a similar situation execpt no surgery booked, still waiting after almost three weeks for my urgent referral. Suffered over two yrs trying to manage it with physio and low level drugs, I take a lot of cocodamol and am on amiltriptiline for night. Although the L4/5 herniation was only diagnosed three weeks ago after an MRI via pain clinic - GP was useless and refused to help. Ialso have the variable pain, like iit's evolved over time. I find my whole body is tight and sore.

I haven't seen many positive outcomes of surgery here, I guess the positive cases don't post once they are fixed and pain free. I'll update on my progress but suspect you'll be way ahead of me.

On the upside I met my friend and she was reassuring that Charing Cross is excellent and have very few complaints. She also advised me to go straight to the hospital with the specialism if I get CES symptoms as time wasted through transfer can be critical. Being I London does have some perks having a few options and one on a bus route.

We're in a hotel. I've been sore and hitting the cocodamol after a long drive - really is a trigger and something to avoid. Grumpy but hoping tomorrow goes ok with few tantrums - me as well as the kids!

Oh and my last baby was born with no pain relief but I take the drugs because I can't take the never ending chronic pain. Not that I aimed for no pain relief in the birth. There are some pains and pressure occasionally that remind me of the pain I had in labour and whether labour made the disc even worse.

I suspect your MRI showed a bit disc herniation and that's why surgery is more likely. Mine is supposedly very big so the chance of recovery without surgery is lower and the risk is greater - if the disc protrudes more it may cause permanent damage like cauda equina syndrome.

queen sometimes my back pain feels like contraction pain, especially when it causes a muscle spasm, it's that deep seated pain that spreads through the entire bottom section of the body. I laboured mostly through my back and so the pain I would say, on the bad days is on par with that level of pain. Possibly not when I was actually pushing, but the hour or two before and before that, definitely.

PE I will respond later properly but I had discectomy in June '13. I cannot, unfortunately give you a 100% positive story, but it worked to some degree and improved my mobility and pain levels a little, but it's largely for sciatic pain improvement as it is aimed to free the nerve from entrapment and is less likely to improve back pain. As I said I will post more later about my experience as it's not straightforward and there are other issues with the spine that are contributed to the continued pain.

I am not so zen today. I bought my Fly Shoes. I bought some new chinos to go with them, so i can not look cobbled together at work. It looks fab this new outfit.

I can't fucking wear them. Not today anyway. I am in pain walking. Not necessarily huge amount more pain in my shoes, little bit I guess, but think it will increase if I wear them (wedges, but wooden ones, not too high, but higher than my Fly boots), but, it fucking looks like I simply can't wear high heels rather than that I have a bad back as the pain is making me walk funny DH laughed, apologised, but it was comical. I am so gutted. I so want to look nice and so now I have to put on my scruffy flats, which also hurt to walk in as no cushion on them at all, as my boots don't go with the new trousers. Sorry for swearing. but fucking bollocks.

losty I will post more to you later, but glad at least that you are now getting some more help and support from the GP and being listened to.

Hi procrastinator - I know a couple of people in RL who have had discectomy (microdiscectomy) & it's helped a lot. One still has some back pain but the sciatic pain is better & she is mobile & leading a pretty normal life - able to sit & walk & work etc.

I've been offered the same for a prolapse but am not on a waiting list yet - have just tried an injection (no sign of it working) instead as a first step. The consultant (neurosurgeon) I saw was very positive about microdiscectomy - I guess he would be, it's his job!- but for leg pain, not back pain. He gave a figure of about 90% (I think) of patients seeing at least a significant improvement with their sciatica. He was pretty clear that the procedure is much less successful for back pain (for reasons pavlov explains above).

Does your surgeon know that your sciatica is currently not the main problem for you? And is he convinced the discectomy will help the back pain element? Re. the wear & tear elsewhere: when the disc has degenerated, this does put more of a load on the facet joints & some wear & tear is pretty common there. Apparently I have some arthritis there. Is that what you meant? I don't think discectomy can address that, though. The older style procedures where most of the disc was removed can actually increase wear & tear, as far as I'm aware (as the cushioning effect from the disc has gone).

I do feel for you trying to make this decision - I haven't a clue myself how to weigh up risks / possible benefits, & I think it almost makes it harder when you do have good days where you don't need much pain relief. I would guess, though, like Queen, that your prolapse must be pretty bad for the surgeon to advise surgery right away.