Ds scared me half to death today!

[AbbyLou]

I took my 19 month old ds to Tumble Tots today for the first time and it ended in a complete disaster. He tripped over one of the floor beams and landed on his forehead. When I got to him he cried then took a big breath in. I was waiting for one of those almighty screams but it never came! Charlie went completely rigid, threw his head back and arched his back and was staring at the ceiling - this was in my arms. He just didn't breathe for what felt like ages. His face was getting greyer and greyer and his lips were blue. I screamed his name over and over and my friend raced over. I ended up whacking him on the back at which he breathed again and then went very limp and I think he fainted. He had his eyes closed and was completely floppy. I was absolutely terrified, I didn't know what to do. The woman running Tumble Tots went and got a first aider from the leisure centre and we took him to a cool room. He was starting to come round by now and was very sleepy. I think I was actually very lucky - within half an hour he was back on my knee enjoying song time with a huge purple lump on his head. He has had no ill effects and has been totally fine all day hence me not getting it checked out. He's eaten and drunk normally, slept normally and has spent the afternoon in the pool with me in the garden. It gave me such a fright - I'm a teacher and I see kids bang their heads every week but I've never seen such a reaction before. I know he's fine now but every time I stop and think I see his face that horrible grey colour and the sick feeling I had in my stomach. I'm sorry to go on and on but I just thought getting it out on here might help me get it out of my head!

That sounds horrible! I'm not surprised that you seem to be in shock. Hope he stays feeling ok and that you recover

(((Bighug)))

Wow glad to hear that everything is ok. Thank goodness it all turned out fine. You;ll be thinking about it for a while yet I would imagine.

Very scarey Abbeylou, glad he's ok tho, and your feeling ok too, phew, I'm sure you'll keep a good check on him thru the night too. {{{{Big Hugs}}}}

Thanks everyone. I don't think I'll sleep very well tonight. One becasue I know I'll keep seeing that face and two because I'll be wanting to check Charlie every few minutes.

this sounds like he had a reflex anoxic shock seizure. please DON'T panic at what I have said.....this does NOT mean he has a serious disorder...just that he has had a reflex reaction to a big shock.

My DD3 had one once, from trapping her thumb in the hinge of a door. She was unluckier tho as she was out for over 2hrs, and then in hospital for a few days under obs (she was 23mths old). DS1 also used to breath-hold after a shock bringing on the same reaction....(I got an odd bunch of kiddies that like to keep me on my toes[despair emoticon]!).

Now should he do it again then you may want to get him checked out, but 99% of kiddies never do....it is a one off bought on by shock, like your son!

I can't do links, but there is a website which can explain more than I can.....

www.stars.org.uk/

please please don't read too much into everything written here tho.....this is an organisation for the 1% of kiddies that have it bad. Like I said, your son will MOST LIKELY be the 99% of ok kiddies that have it once and never again (like my DD3 did. DS1 had more, but from the age of 4 he hasn't once had an episode, and never never did at school either!)

Doesn't stop you from fretting and remembering the terror tho.....you have my sympathies for that. I will NEVER forget how grey DD3 went the day she had hers, and how terrifying it was when they couldn't bring her round. Alternitively, DS1 only ever went blue, fainted, then came round again. scary, but never needed an ambulance. And after the first couple of times I got so blase I never even got him checked by anyone.

anyhow.......good luck tonight and rest easy (if poss) and read the stars stuff when you are calmer.

HTH....and take care of your little man

Psychomum, thanks so much for your reply and all the information. I will go on that website when I am feeling a little less delicate! I didn't even imagine that it could be something that could happen again. Can I just ask you, if it did happen again, what should I do? Apart from panic slightly and whack him on the back I didn't really do anything. Would it be definite that he would come round? At what point should I call an ambulance and do you think I should take him to the doctor's tomorrow as a precaution?

Abby lou. I would take him to the drs.
Personally I have seen a few people suffer anoxic seizures and they do look scary but they are harmless.
However there is another potential problem which is a siezure caused by the head injury. I myself had one after I banged my head. I did not develop eppilepsy or have any further seizures but it turned out I had a skull fracture and contosions in my brain. I would say that any head injury with a loss of consciousness would get an X ray if you when to a and e.

ment to say the anoxic seizures are harmless if they cause of anoxia is removed. I would be seeking professional advise from a dr before you put a time limit on calling an ambulance (and I hope there is not a next time).
Sorry dont mean that to sound harsh but it is very difficult to diagnoise things on line and I would not want you to be given a flase sence of security if there was a potential problem.

if you want reassurance by a health proffesional then by all means take him....i would anyway in fact just so that it is their records.

You did exactly the right thing today in all fairness. Lay them down safely in the 'recovery' position may help should it happen again, but only so that they are safe for coming round.

Normally what happens is that they go blue/grey, hold their breath, and then 'faint' like you explained. Once they do faint, that is when they automatically start breathing again. If you like, it is the 'fail-safe' measure. They just can't hold their breath too long and die....tis impossible....so don't ever have that fear.

SHOULD it ever happen again, then lay him down and wait. once he comes round again, just reassure him that you are there and keep calm yourself. If it is a nasty accident, then by all means call an ambulance, but if it is just a bump that has shocked him into it then most likely you can keep an eye and maybe ring the docs for advice later.....even get so blase that you just watch him at home a 'know' that he is ok.
DD3 was different as she had already had febrile convulsions (which she still suffers from at 7), and also blanking episodes so she was different anyway....and then altho she started breathing again, she didn't come round which was the reason for the ambulance...that and the fact that her thumb was crushed enough for the nail to be hanging off!!

I do really think you'll 'know' tho if it is serious....you are his mummy after all, and so know your son the best.!

take care

and chapsmum is right too.....any head injury with a loss of consciouness does need checking.

and she is right with the on-line reason too. we are NOT in any way health proffesionals....just mummys helping other mummys with things that we have experience with.

Intrapulmonary Shunt ????? Did he go to A&E???

That STARS thing sounds like intrapulmonary shunting!!!!!
PSYCHOMUM5 do you know if its the same thing?!?!?!?

It really does sound like an RAS episode.You have already received excellent advise from psychomum5 and I agree with what she has said wholeheartedly.

As she couldn't manage links, I hope she doesn't mind me posting it

STARS .

You can phone them for a chat etc., and would probably find doing this very helpful and reassuring.

I also agree with others that even if it was an RAS, which can be extremely frightening for a parent to witness but doesn't usually require immediate medical attention, when caused by a bump to the head I would seek early medical reassurance regarding the latter.

My middle son, now seven, has had RAS since days old (extreme pain from baby Reflux being the first trigger in his case - later triggers being some of the more painful/frightening everyday bumps and knocks of a crawling/new walking/adventure seeking baby/toddler). The early years saw him having very frequent episodes (followed by long periods of 'sleep' but, thankfully, in recent years they have reduced dramatically and the length of associated 'sleep' became negligible. Now it has been just over a year since he last had one.

One tip I found worked for us. If it is RAS, as your son is young, rather than place him in the recovery position, you may find he would come around by scooping him up in your arms and holding him tilted backward over your knee (his head pointed towards floor, face towards sky).

I hope in sharing your experience this evening it will have helped you and in turn help others reading this thread.

Take care.

butterfly

butterflymum do you know if this is the same as Intrapulmonary Shunting?? it sounds the same

Jellynump, I am not aware of any link between the two as such. STARS should be able to clarify further for you.

jellynump...sorry but I don't know. I wish I could help you, but can't there. Is there a particular reason you want to know for. Is there any way else we can help.....you sound like you need some advice.

butterflymum.....you know more than me, and thankyou for posting link. I really appreciate it when people do that.

I note that your son had his triggered by reflux....my DD3 and DS2 have/had reflux (I think they do still have the residual effects from it as they both are sick lots easier than my others), and DS2 now has the bowel probs going on from reflux (only just diagnosed and been having probs today in fact with him.

The reason why I noticed is that my DD3 often had 'blank' episodes that were likened to petit mal epilepsy but never diagnosed fully (consultant said she is borderline and we have to wait to see if puberty triggers it now). Prob is....and going back and readin the info on STARS again tonight I am wondering if it is in fact linked to the reflex seizures instead. I used to be a member of the STARS group and gave a regular monetry gift, but since she never had another episode as severe as the very first one, my interest slowly waned....am wondering tho if I should in fact look again...[confused emoticon].

I am babbling I think now....had bad and scary day with my DS2 and so am haiving everyhting go round my head.

psychomum5 - you may find it very helpful to make contact with STARS again, especially as they now have a Yahoo! group up and running to enable sufferers/parents/carers affected by all types of syncope to chat with each other/ share frustrations/ make useful suggestions etc.

It took me until our son was about 3 and a half to get a confirmed diagnosis of RAS, so no actual proof that his Reflux as a baby was the 'pain trigger' at that time, but we firmly believe that is the most likely explanation. Although breastfed, he had what is known as 'silent' reflux (not the usual amount of posseting as associated with reflux - as it is more likely to stay in rather than come out - therefore a much stronger pain sensation for the baby).

Just to clarify in case anyone is confused though, the Reflux was not the cause of RAS, merely one of many potential triggers.

My DD3 had both types of reflux....silent and projectile vomiting type too. The silent type was the worst as the pain was horrific. she just cried and cried and cried.

I can empathise as my paeds doc likened it to us mums having heartburn in pregnancy and that is horrific at times, I remember all too well!

and thankyou, yes I will check it out, especially as she does still blank me at times. I would much rather it still be anoxic seizures than have the fear of epilepsy hang over us..

AbbyLou - what a trerrifying thing to have happened in front of your eyes. I hope you are feeling better this morning. I think you received some good info on this thread.

abbylou, that sounds very scary. Poor you!!

My dd2 did this once when she was a baby (7 months or thereabouts) and dd1 had tripped up and fallen onto her. She screamed briefly and then went limp and grey, eyes shut. At which point it was my turn to scream for dh to call an ambulance. She came round before he got to the phone though.
She'd had major heart surgery three months before that episode and my first thought was that something had gone wrong with her heart, but her paed explained about RAS and it never happened again (she's 5 now).

Children, ey? Here to scare the life out of you....

My ds2 has RAS.Diagnosed at about 2.Any kind of scare could set him off,even a surprise tickle.
He used to have episodes more often when he was overtired.
Psychomum is absolutely right,they CANNOT die,the brain will ALWAYS kick in and tell them to breathe but it does feel like an age sometimes.
I would recommend that you get him seen purely because it can have implications should he ever need a general anaesthetic,they can have one but the anaesthetist needs to know.
Often they appear to 'grow out of it' but they can't say conclusively because some people have had up to ten years between episodes.Ds2 hasn't had one in almost 3 years.
STARS is excellent btw.
Hope that helps.

PS.Be prepared for the GP to poo-poo you a bit,my GP hadn't heard of it and alot of people tried to tell me it was a breath holding tantrum and I should slap him.

I've made an appointment to take him at 2.50 today so we'll see what happens.

hope he doesn't scare you again today. And doubly hope that the doctors listen and reassure too.

I was lucky....it was MY doctor that was the one who gave me the info on reflex anoxic seizures.....he is fab....even gave me the link for STARS too. the hospital did note it down as that already, but no-one explained what it was and the implications. Just let me fret and think that she would be forever like it.

Take care, and hope you are calmer too

I am a bit confused now, as I am wondering if this is what my son has. I have previously been told that it was breath holding, but it did start to happen very early for that about 8 months I think.
It doesn't happen often, but more often to do wtih shock than tantrum I think. He is now 21 months old,
last week we were at a soft play, and I was distracted by my oldest son, and in the meantime he must have climbed onto his chair and accord to the witness he fell off , let out one small cry. I didn't notice, and then some one said "your son has fallen over", he was lying on the ground and when I picked him up he was grey in the face and had blue lips. I had such a shock I welled up. He was sort of limp but semi conscious. He was very sleepy and clingy for good 40 minutes afterwards.
Should I get him checked out, previosly gp listened to his heart. He is due to be operated on for a hernia, and now I am worried. Will look up this site first of all