Is chickenpox more unpleasant than two injections?

[cngodltlbi]

On average.

Where have I dismissed your experiences bruffin? There is a difference between dismissing something (e.g.. saying it's down to recall bias' when someone says their child has had a bad reaction to a vaccine) and saying yes, it can happen but it's very rare. Serious complications are less likely in previously healthy children (as supported by Catherina's link) What have I actually said that you have taken issue with? Do you disagree that complications are rare? Do you disagree that they can be more serious in the immunocompromised and adults? Are you just arguing because you think I must have said something that you disagree with?

Both mine have had it twice each, which I thought couldn't happen. Both were very poorly four about 4 days with high temp etc. spots for 3 or 4 weeks. if either of them get it again then I might consider a vac as the virus is clearly not giving them immunity.

"chicken pox have enough severe and complicated courses that the "average" is not totally harmless"

Catherina, your own figures don't even support that assertion. In the vast majority of cases, chicken pox is not complicated.

Severe courses and complications... In any case, even harmless cases of chicken pox keep you home for a week or so and the vaccine doesn't do that either...

I had a discussion with my GP and with my paediatrician colleagues about this before deciding what to do for my daughter.

The concerns were that the vaccine was only partially effective and that there are problems when cover wanes in teenage/young adult hood.
The proposed solution (and the one that they and in the end I also took) was to access antivirals at first sight of symptoms to attenuate the course of the disease. Natural immunity still provided, but lower rates of scarring and complications.

Worked well for us.

I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of the vaccination debate, just give our experience.
We got the CP vaccination for DS through the NHS as I am immunocompromised. We were worried (DH, me, GP & HV) that DS would get CP and I would catch it, which would mean me ending up in hospital. We also worried about the logistics of looking after DS if he got it (I wouldn't dare be near him)
Not only am I immunocompromised (through drug therapy for life long disease) but I also have never developed immunity to CP. I have had it several times as both a child and an adult each time has been awful (even before it was life threatening) so I would do anything to avoid it.
DS wasn't bothered by the injections and had no side effects and touch wood has been through several CP outbreaks at school & nursery without catching it.
We will of course bear in mind the risks later in life but it seemed like the best course of action for us.
We are both in favour of vaccinations especially if they are widely used (CP is, in other countries) as for us personally we feel the risk benefit analysis makes them a good thing.
I know that vaccinations invoke strong feelings in both camps so I want to make clear that this is just our experience which for us has been positive.

I am currently 35 weeks pregnant. I had the CP when I was 5 weeks pregnant. Having had it so early, we've been advised that our baby should be fine but it has been a stressful pregnancy. I would have had the vaccine before getting pregnant, if I had my time again.
My DS (3) had CP at same time as me. We both had fairly mild cases - my GP gave me anti-virals to lessen my symptoms. DD (1) had it about two weeks later and was also not too bad. Neither kid has any scars, though I have a few.

Interesting thread. I am undecided if I will vaccinate DC3.

Is hospitalisation with CP more unpleasant than 400 injections?

ooo, interesting question, according to the US experience (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18419393), 1 in about 1900 doses leads to an adverse event, with 1 in 38000 doses leads to a serious adverse event, so I guess, the answer is that the vaccine is still preferable and less "risky".

The full article is here

"VAERS is a passive surveillance system managed by the CDC and the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). It relies on reports from health care providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public about adverse events temporally related to immunization "

Worth noting I think - under reporting etc.

Anyway,

"harmless cases of chicken pox keep you home for a week or so and the vaccine doesn't do that"

Unless you have a reaction to the vaccine of course. Eg. developing the rash is the most common reported complication according to that link and this can apparently pose a risk of infection to others. Not to mention fever etc which could also keep you home. Let's not forgot that the vaccine is around 85% effective as well so 15% of people will develop chickenpox despite the vaccine and so will still be at risk of complications.

I agree that cngodltlbi's question is interesting - simply because I'm wondering where the 400 injections figure comes from!

Yes.

I remember the itching and also remember having one of the scabs caught and pulled off (by the wool holding my gloves into my coat - thanks DM!)

My DDs were uncomfortable.

A gorgeous litte girl at the school where I worked had it really bad. She's been left with a face completely covered with scars - at least 50 of them. Bless.

Go for the injections.

Actually there is a lot of evidence that VAERS has over reporting. There is probably under reporting of minor reactions. who is going to bother reporting a sore arem, but there is over reporting of supposed more severe reactions for litigation purposes.

My 14 weeks old currently has CP caught off his 4yo sister. He's pretty much covered head to toe and has had a fever for three days. I'm extremely concerned it can turn nasty as he's been refusing to feed the last few hours. (Ebf)

However, as heartbreaking as it may seem I'm unsure about the vaccine having read this thread. I was unaware it only lasted 20 years.

I'm unsure too. Child one had mild CP, fine to do jigsaws, watch tv at home. Child 2 had it very badly, fever, crying, smothered in spots, in ears, mouth scalp, bottom an genitals covered. Child 2 was ill, couldn't do any activities, or even watch tv for a week, has a few scars.

What to do about child 3, I'm edging towards a vaccine.

Not for mine, they barely noticed it.

And I don't have to worry that it will wear of at a time when chickenpox is actually likely to be a much bigger problem for them.

"I agree that cngodltlbi's question is interesting - simply because I'm wondering where the 400 injections figure comes from!"

Catherina quoted a 1/200 risk of hospitalisation. 200 * 2 = 400

Haylebop - sorry to hear your little boy is unwell. HAve you had him at the doctor yet? I"m not sure if it's too late for antivirals but if he's had a fever for three days and isn't feeding properly then it is definitely worth having him checked out.

As far as the vaccine goes, it doesn't necessarily even last 20 years. It is around 85% effective and immunity from it wanes so you don't actually know when you, as an individual, may need a booster (unless you're having your titres checked regularly). Also, the vaccine is less effective in adults so you have an increased chance of the vaccine being ineffective when you are an adult and need it more (greater risk of complications.) Also bear in mind that every vaccine you have carries a risk - it's not just one vaccine for life - every time you have the vaccine there is a risk of having a reaction.

In other words, 400 injections would have to be given to prevent each hospitalisation.

It would be possible to tell at a population level. If lots of US adults start getting CP ACIP would have to do something.

The vaccine been given for 30 years in Japan without evidence of it waning.

My aim for this thread was whether the idea of CP vaccination makes sense, even if the vaccine is 100% safe/effective and only two doses are needed.

Wikipedia isn't really the most reliable source of information bruffin.

Check out this paper instead. The vaccine has been available in Japan as part of a voluntary vaccination program since 1987 (26 years) and vaccination coverage has been low (around 30%.)

"The low level of vaccine coverage among Japanese infants will not alter the circulation of wild-type VZV, and the epidemiology of natural varicella has not changed greatly since the introduction of the vaccine [4]. In the future, if the rate of vaccine coverage increases owing to the introduction of a compulsory immunization schedule, vaccine recipients will have a reduced risk of being exposed to VZV and, thus, reduced boosting of immunity via natural means. It is expected that a second vaccine dose will be required for maintaining protective immunity against natural disease."

This is what happened in the US. High vaccination coverage meant that there was less exposure to the wild virus and less opportunity for natural 'boosters'. Immunity from the vaccine started to wane and so in 2006 a second booster dose was recommended. So, no, there is not 'no evidence of waning immunity after 30 years of vaccine use in Japan' and the second booster has only been recommended in the US since 2006 so the most we can say the booster lasts for at the moment is 7 years. HTH.

bumbly yes he was seen on Monday. Just told to keep him dosed up. Not sure my thermometer is accurate bit he feels warmer then he should. Doc said drugs wouldn't work?!

With him being so small I would take him back to be seen again if he still has a fever - especially if he isn't feeding well. Hope he feels better soon!