MMR Jabs

[Qd]

An osteopath told me last week she had heard there was a homeopathic alternative to the MMR, but didn't have any info. Does anyone know anything about it?

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There was a very calm and balanced article in today's Observer all about MMR and I think it's worth a read.

Lill, Pupuce, while I can appreciate you have a different view on MMR - its when your views expands to a general disbelief in immunisation, the government, GPs, DoH, THEM, that they are all out to get us mums, that you lose credibility.

What makes me cringe is when I read your 'data' and 'proof' with interest, only to find is has echoes of 'Elvis is really alive' and 'Conspiracy theories anonymous'. There's so much conspiracy theory crap on the web, and there's always a sucker who reads them and feels they have been let into the TRUTH, that they know something no-one else does, and it immediately makes them feel smug and superior - seriously , that's why conspiracy theories take hold. If you take a step back, its really boring I know, but the fact is that you have stick to the big studies to see any real statistical arguments. I know its not as exciting as being IN on the TRUTH but Wakefield with an experimental group of 12 (out of hundredes of MILLIONS of children who've had the jabs in 90 countries) sits right up there with Diana got bumped off by MI5.

If you think I'm being facitious then I'll pull out just one of your points..Its been said, and you clearly believe it, that immunising kids leads to no less occurences of infection. I mean, read that sentence, where's your common sense gone???? As someone said, when was the last outbreak of smallpox in this country??

COLD HARD FACTS are needed onthis site, deaths/effects with immunisation versus deaths/effects without. That's what we need, not people's paranoid views, some tiny survey, the man upstairs with half an O level says etc etc - Its not helping us sleep at night!!!

Lil - nice one!

Lil you are sooooo right!. What I don't understand, is why on earth would the governments of 90 countries around the world want to willingly and deliberately inflict harm on the more than 500 million children who have received the MMR vaccine. What is in it for them?. I also simply cannot understand the claim that immunisation doesn't lead to a reduction in infection. Is it just an amazing coincidence that diseases as varied as smallpox, measles and polio have all but disappeared from the developed world where vaccinations are routine while measles continues to kill a million children a year in countries where it is not. Also, Pupuce has suggested that children who have been immunised with MMR are more likely to contract a more serious form of measles. If that is so, how is it that not a single child has died of measles in the UK in the decade or so since the jab was introduced?.

News programmes are having enormous difficulty tracking down medical "experts" to take the anti-MMR view in debates for the simple reason that they barely exist.

Lil I will not get caught up in a slanging match on the net. However in my defence can I point out that I AM NOT A 'SUCKER' surfing the web for conspiracy theories. In fact it is only since entering this debate on mumsnet that I have used the web for a resource for my vaccination arguments.
Our views are obviously so different, and your manner so aggressive that I will change my nickname to avoid any confusion.
Regards Lill (2Ls!)

Lill (2 L's) please allow Lil her point of view as well, all of what she has said is true, and what Croppy says, if it was SO unsafe then over 90 countries would not be endorsing such a vaccination for children.

We are all entitled to our point of view on this site and I don't think that Lil was being agressive at all, I have locked horns with her before!!

Lill, the tone of my last message was certainly not meant to sound aggressive, just totally EXASPERATED by the thinness of the whole anti-MMR debate!

Ex-lill, anyone reading this thread can see in an instant that emotions run high here. Heated arguments, not personal attacks are being put forward on all sides.

You say that it is only since entering this debate on mumsnet that you have used the web as a resource for your vaccination arguments.

Can I add, surely, by posting your web findings, you are opening the way for those findings and your method of researching, to be critised as well as agreed with? Debate, yes? I'm sure you don't expect everyone on this thread to read your web facts and say' but of course - that's it. Lill's absolutely right and I was wrong all along.

Sobernow - great nickname! - I share your dilema, after much research etc we have decided our DS will have the MMR but a friend, whom we see quite a lot of, has not allowed her DS to have ANY jabs whatsoever, - so I too am not sure how much he should 'mix' with my son - are there any guidelines on this?

Does anyone think nurseries and other childcare providers will start insisting children are vaccinated before admitting them?

This occurred to me as i was booking my cat into kennels and I had to produce a vaccination certificate. Yes, flippant I know. But do you think it will happen?

Can someone please explain to me why vaccinated children should not mix with un vaccinated children?
Iam genuinly confused. Surely even if the unvaccinated have measles they cannot pass it on to our vaccinated child.
Isn't the point of being immunised that you can freely mix without fear of catchimg anything.

Enid, good point about nurserys. I think in america this is already the case. Nurserys ans schools over there will only admit children who can prove immunisation.
Probably why the intake over tere is so high.

Callie, I'm not sure about this either - I would have thought, like you, that an immunised child was not at much risk from mixing with children who haven't been immunised. But I think it's true to say that not all vaccinations "take" first time round (hence boosters), so there is a much reduced risk of still contracting one of the illnesses. A boy at our son's nursery got rubella quite badly some months after having his MMR, for example.
Enid, our nursery does not insist on immunisations yet but wants to know which ones your child has had and keeps this info on record. Judging from other policies they have about excluding contagious children, I can envisage them also turning away unimmunised children (for their own safety) if the measles scare hits SE London.

Having re-read the Observer article today, one point really struck me as being useful; that was, that there was no sudden upsurge in the number of cases of autism in the years following the start of MMR in this country. Overall, the diagnostic tests for Autism have gradually improved and it is widely believed that this is why the figures for autism have been risisng.

Also, point of information, can moderators post on this site, and who moderates them?

Emmagee,
If you click on the moderators link at the top of the page, you'll "meet" mumsnet's moderators. They can't post directly on the site but mail to alert us to any postings that are offensive/ dangerous etc. We are still short of volunteer moderators for a few topics - so if anyone's interested in helping out, do mail us at [email protected]

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Robinw, Just guessing, but you don't happen to be a teacher by any chance?

I for one think that nurserys perhaps should require the children to be immunised before entrance.
I myself have been indesisive over the mmr butI have never wanted dd to not be immunised at all. For me it has been a choice betwween mmr and single jabs.
I have now decided for the mmr as single jabs are too hard to find and Iam not sure they are as effective.
But if my dd was in nursery now it would be a great comfort to know that all the children were immunised.
I don't think its an invasion of human rights because they would not be forcing you to have the jab just refusing entrence.

Iam sure there must be a lot of mums out there with babies under one yr in nursery who are worried sick because a lot of the over ones are not immunised . IYKWIM.

I would also like to say thanks to a lot of the mums here for helping me to decide that mmr is the best way to go.

OOh , Callie, very good about the teacher! This thought had crossed my mind too, then I remembered the comments on the teachers thread.